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  1. #1021  
    America's first line of defense in any terrorist attack is the "first responder" community - local police, firefighters, and emergency medical professionals. Properly trained and equipped first responders have the greatest potential to save lives and limit casualties after a terrorist attack. Currently, our capabilities for responding to a terrorist attack vary widely across the country. Many areas have little or no capability to respond to terrorist attack using weapons of mass destruction. Even the best prepared States and localities do not possess adequate resources to respond to the full range of terrorist threats we face.

    Facts About First Responders

    There are over 1 million firefighters in the United States, of which approximately 750,000 are volunteers.
    Local police departments have an estimated 556,000 full-time employees including about 436,000 sworn enforcement personnel.
    Sheriffs' offices reported about 291,000 full-time employees, including about 186,000 sworn personnel.
    There are over 155,000 nationally registered emergency medical technicians(EMT)

    http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interap...orial_0197.xml
  2. #1022  
    This is scary...check it out

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html
    The value of knowledge is not in its possession, but in its use.
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    #1023  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyaki
    Sorry antoher Blog post. Here is their banner statement

    Welcome to the AboveTopSecret.com conspiracy discussion board. Use this board to engage in collaborative discussion and debate on a broad range of conspiracy, extraterrestrial, secret project, government agency, and other alternative topics.
  4. #1024  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    .....
    Geesh!! Cut 'em some slack already.
    Yes? And if I not, they will not take it anyway?

    I really do expect that ATM's Man is going to burn or bulldoze my city in the name of "zero tolerance for looters."
  5. #1025  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Yes? And if I not, they will not take it anyway?

    I really do expect that ATM's Man is going to burn or bulldoze my city in the name of "zero tolerance for looters."
    Huh? I got the part of atm's man meaning bush. So you think Bush is going to burn and bulldoze your city (which I think is New Orleans) because of looters? You consistently post like Yoda would. Very confusing.
  6. #1026  
    Role for FEMA in disasters:

    Fresh Air from WHYY, September 8, 2005 · **** Polman, a political analyst for the Philadelphia Inquirer, evaluates the response of FEMA and other federal and local groups to Hurricane Katrina.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4837382
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  7. #1027  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyaki
    I hate to add fuel to this "conspiracy" but just about EVERYTHING I read was dead on what I expected (except for the "can't leave" part). I've built and run displacement camps very similiar to this in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. I understand EXACTLY what they mean by riots and "the kind of people".

    Please understand, it has nothing to do with race or economic background but everything to do with displaced people under extreme duress who are in a completely foreign environment. We saw riots all the time for perceived disparities in treatment. Not blaming anyone, it just happens.

    Turns out the "can't leave" part is that they can't come and go. If they have family or are just ready to leave they can do so at any time. FEMA just doesn't want comings and goings in this camp meant as a temporary shelter.

    So, what's so scary? How would you (anyone) do things, as an official government organization tasked with housing, feeding, and caring for thousands of distressed, displaced, and disoriented fellow citizens?
    Last edited by AlaskanDad; 09/08/2005 at 08:41 PM.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  8. #1028  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    .......
    Other than the "can't leave" part, what's so scary? How would you (anyone), as an official government organization tasked with housing, feeding, and caring for thousands of distressed, displaced, and disoriented fellow citizens?
    In my field we have a principle called proportionality. It asserts that the solution should never be worse than the problem. In this case, one should not starve thousands of people to punish the behavior of tens. One should not restrain heroes in the name of protecting them.
  9. #1029  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    In my field we have a principle called proportionality. It asserts that the solution should never be worse than the problem. In this case, one should not starve thousands of people to punish the behavior of tens.
    Wow, did I miss that or what? Where was the part about starving thousands of people? That's outrageous! Starving our own citizens is beyond the pale for any reason.

    Please show me where it says they will starve thousands to punish tens.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  10. #1030  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Wow, did I miss that or what? Where was the part about starving thousands of people? That's outrageous! Starving our own citizens is beyond the pale for any reason.

    Please show me where it says they will starve thousands to punish tens.
    Can't believe this, but I think I know what Murray is saying. The people in the Dome and Convention center were being starved and a few (the 10's) were shooting at cops, stealing tv's, etc. There are reports that Louisana Homeland Security did not want supplies b/c they wanted people out of the City. I have no details, no link - heard it on the radio, so for now it's not fact.
  11. #1031  
    Oh, I see (I think).

    I was discussing a blog on a FEMA camp in OK and he was referencing Dome and Convention Center happenings. Confusion ensues...
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  12. #1032  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Oh, I see (I think).

    I was discussing a blog on a FEMA camp in OK and he was referencing Dome and Convention Center happenings. Confusion ensues...
    Seriously, do you find murray's posts confusing? Sort of Yoda talk? Murray is very passionate about this topic, but I read and then reread and not sure exactly wtf his is really trying to say.
  13. #1033  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Seriously, do you find murray's posts confusing? Sort of Yoda talk? Murray is very passionate about this topic, but I read and then reread and not sure exactly wtf his is really trying to say.
    There's certainly a lot of passion mixed in with experience. I read all of them respectfully but sometimes have to try to understand what he's meaning rather than saying.

    Kinda like my Ukrainian grandfather...
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  14. #1034  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    There's certainly a lot of passion mixed in with experience. I read all of them respectfully but sometimes have to try to understand what he's meaning rather than saying.

    Kinda like my Ukrainian grandfather...
    I think that it is best that I not post or read here anymore. I find that I have become very afraid for my family, my city, and my country. I am no longer able to even pretend to objectivity. While I think that there is cause for my fear, I understand that it borders on paranoia. I take little comfort from the proposition that even paranoids have enemies. I find little comfort, and lots of provocation, here. I will miss it but then I miss golf, chess, and a few other forums that I have given up when I realized that they were no longer fun. I shall retire to the more technical threads.
  15. #1035  


    take that as you will....

    and a poll
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in824591.shtml
    ("biased" of course, I'm sure..... heheh)

    The local gov't screwed up bigtime and the federal government and their fancy agencies screwed up just as bad. Some BS excuse about how the feds cant act w/o some dopey governor asking for help is inconsequential. The entire world saw tv coverage of helpless people dying there and the government of the richest, most powerful nation on earth just sat and watched with us. The end.
    Last edited by Joebar; 09/09/2005 at 12:04 AM.


  16. #1036  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    The local gov't screwed up bigtime and the federal government and their fancy agencies screwed up just as bad. Some BS excuse about how the feds cant act w/o some dopey governor asking for help is inconsequential. The entire world saw tv coverage of helpless people dying there and the government of the richest, most powerful nation on earth just sat and watched with us. The end.
    I haven't been following this thread, so these points may have been made already.....but, I'll offer them anyway

    The most important aspect of the aid is order, as in coordination. The process of having the Governor request assistance recognizes that 1) the State has jurisdiction; 2) the state leaders are responsible for establishing a plan of action and garnering the assistance (e.g. Federal aid) it needs to implement that plan.

    For any one intent on providing assistance to simply show up on the scene without coordination would be chaotic. For example, if everyone wanting to provide fresh water all showed converged on one locality, you would have, first, the problem of gridlock in that locality coupled with massive underservice of other localities.

    The best people to provide that coordination are the local (in this case, State) officials.

    Second issue: This event should be evidence to all of us that being "rich and powerful" is relative. None of our "riches" or "power" was sufficient to turn back the hurricane. Perhaps, having been confronted with our poverty and weakness, we are now in a position to find true wealth and strength.
  17. #1037  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    The local gov't screwed up bigtime and the federal government and their fancy agencies screwed up just as bad. Some BS excuse about how the feds cant act w/o some dopey governor asking for help is inconsequential. The entire world saw tv coverage of helpless people dying there and the government of the richest, most powerful nation on earth just sat and watched with us. The end.
    Agreed, something definitely went wrong. But, it's not a BS excuse - it may be ridiculous that the federal govt in time of need can't take over when there is an incompetent Mayor and Governor - but that is the way it is. Glad to see you finally coming around to realizing the local govt screwed up. Now if you just can admit the State govt screwed up too!
  18. #1038  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I haven't been following this thread, so these points may have been made already.....but, I'll offer them anyway

    The most important aspect of the aid is order, as in coordination. The process of having the Governor request assistance recognizes that 1) the State has jurisdiction; 2) the state leaders are responsible for establishing a plan of action and garnering the assistance (e.g. Federal aid) it needs to implement that plan.

    For any one intent on providing assistance to simply show up on the scene without coordination would be chaotic. For example, if everyone wanting to provide fresh water all showed converged on one locality, you would have, first, the problem of gridlock in that locality coupled with massive underservice of other localities.

    The best people to provide that coordination are the local (in this case, State) officials.

    Second issue: This event should be evidence to all of us that being "rich and powerful" is relative. None of our "riches" or "power" was sufficient to turn back the hurricane. Perhaps, having been confronted with our poverty and weakness, we are now in a position to find true wealth and strength.
    Well said.
  19. #1039  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    None of our "riches" or "power" was sufficient to turn back the hurricane. Perhaps, having been confronted with our poverty and weakness, we are now in a position to find true wealth and strength.
    True, you could not have prevented the hurricane from hitting New Orleans. But the hurricane was not the main problem. Things were quite ok on Monday after the hurricane had left, the real problem for NO was the levees breaking.

    The US would have been more than rich enough to secure the levees in time (during the last years/decades). Maybe you put too much emphasis on praying and too little in engineering? The two are not mutally exclusive of course, but while the effectiveness of praying is somewhat open, the US Army Corps of Engineers wrote that the levees could have been secured for hurricanes such as Katrina with US$ 2 billion.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  20. #1040  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Agreed, something definitely went wrong. But, it's not a BS excuse - it may be ridiculous that the federal govt in time of need can't take over when there is an incompetent Mayor and Governor - but that is the way it is. Glad to see you finally coming around to realizing the local govt screwed up. Now if you just can admit the State govt screwed up too!
    Of course they are, they all are, I thought I've said that before....

    The BS part is that the blind Bush robots can't admit for a second that he has anything to do with the problem..


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