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  1. #941  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Great op/ed. I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.
    What assistance can we expect after a terrorist bomb/nuke/whatever when our gov't can't even handle emergency aid after a flood? Part of their platform last election was how much better they would "protect" us than the dems.


  2. #942  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    Yup, more spin. Just like the coffins comin home from Iraq.
    This is different. You can identify dead bodies. You can't identify coffins.
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    #943  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    What assistance can we expect after a terrorist bomb/nuke/whatever when our gov't can't even handle emergency aid after a flood? Part of their platform last election was how much better they would "protect" us than the dems.
    Not really fair to compare the two.

    1. A terrorist attack is automatically a federal issue
    2. A natural disaster is a state issue

    Once the federal gov't declares a state a national disaster area they can then request federal assistance. The state of LA was declared a national disaster area prior to the storm hitting, but the state gov't did not request aid until Tuesday (The only date I could find)

    I am glad the federal gov't can not just step in any time they feel the need and overrule the states authority. Sure there are times it would be appropriate (this hurricane?) but who is to decide when they should overrule and when they should follow the law?
  4. #944  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    What assistance can we expect after a terrorist bomb/nuke/whatever when our gov't can't even handle emergency aid after a flood? Part of their platform last election was how much better they would "protect" us than the dems.
    How many times does it need to be said that the immediate response to any disaster is and must of necessity be the responsibility of local agencies? They are already there... this should be (and up until now, always has been) common sense. ESPECIALLY if the disaster can't be predicted (bomb/nuke/whatever).

    You can expect the kind of immediate assistance you get to be commensurate with whom you vote for at the local level. If you vote for Giuliani, you get Giuliani. If you vote for Nagin, you get Nagin.

    This has ALWAYS been the case regardless of who the President is and always will be regardless of who the President is. Unless, of course you'd prefer to have a huge, standing domestic force of quasi-military federal emergency responders ready to go anywhere in the country despite the fact they'd likely be used once every couple of years. Even a military the size of ours, which many people don't like, takes several days or even weeks to deploy anywhere.

    As I've stated earlier, the federal response was on the outer limit of what New Orleans had always been told and knew to expect. Any bungling on the federal side that caused a delay should be dealt with severely. But to expect the federal government to "protect us" in the immediate aftermath of something like this is unprecedented and, frankly, disingenuous. It should be obvious to anyone paying attention that the reason a lot of people died in New Orleans is because of the incompetence and ineptitude of the people who ran that city first and the state second. They are a disgrace to public service, but as elected officials, will pay no penalty. There will be no firings, except perhaps of a few incompetents at FEMA.
  5. #945  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Not really fair to compare the two.

    1. A terrorist attack is automatically a federal issue
    2. A natural disaster is a state issue
    And either way, it's not like significant federal resources can be on scene right away. They will always be called in to help as the second line of defense.
  6. #946  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    Yup, more spin. Just like the coffins comin home from Iraq.
    I think they don't want to show them because it just exemplifies what a bad job the local and state govt did. I don't think they're out to embarrass them.
  7. #947  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    What assistance can we expect after a terrorist bomb/nuke/whatever when our gov't can't even handle emergency aid after a flood? Part of their platform last election was how much better they would "protect" us than the dems.
    I agree that congress (led by democrats) should not have lumped FEMA in with Homeland Security - bad idea.
  8. #948  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    And either way, it's not like significant federal resources can be on scene right away. They will always be called in to help as the second line of defense.
    Local and state govt's are responsible for evacuating. Bush had to call the Governor to get the evacuation going. Pathetic.
  9. #949  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    (led by democrats)
    hehe ur such a party fanboy


  10. NRG
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    #950  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Bush had to call the Governor to get the evacuation going. Pathetic.
    This is unproven and I call BS! Did you hear this on Fox or one of it's heads?
  11. #951  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Not really fair to compare the two.

    1. A terrorist attack is automatically a federal issue
    2. A natural disaster is a state issue
    Not the point... Yeah, I get that the local authorities completely dropped the ball, but the fed shoulda been providing backup support a hell of a lot quicker after seeing how poorly the state was handling it on its own.

    If a nuke blew up in New Orleans, you'd think they'd have guys on their way that same afternoon, right?

    Whats the difference? Oh, it's a natural disaster -- their responsibility -- no rush, fvck em? cmon.

    The fact is, our current gov't is NOT capable of properly responding to a DISASTER. Where's Cheney in the middle of this national crisis, btw?


  12. #952  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    Not the point... Yeah, I get that the local authorities completely dropped the ball, but the fed shoulda been providing backup support a hell of a lot quicker after seeing how poorly the state was handling it on its own.

    If a nuke blew up in New Orleans, you'd think they'd have guys on their way that same afternoon, right?

    Whats the difference? Oh, it's a natural disaster -- their responsibility -- no rush, fvck em? cmon.

    The fact is, our current gov't is NOT capable of properly responding to a DISASTER. Where's Cheney in the middle of this national crisis, btw?
    Man....this thread grows like 4 pages a day....With my limited time with work, I cant even keep up. So if I missed this and it was already posted, I am sorry for double posting.

    While driving today I heard some pretty interesting stuff on CNN, Fox, and MSNBC on my satellite radio.

    As far as who is to blame....this will be a topic of discussion for some time to come, especially with how some are politicalizing this disaster. But I heard a report that as soon as Tuesday Pres Bush was on the phone with the Gov strongly urging her to formally request NG assistance in evacuations. She then told Pres Bush that she needed another 24 hrs to think about it before she made her decision.

    Apparently it came out today the reason that Red Cross was refused entrance to give food and water to those in need was because the Homeland Security for the state blocked them saying that the Gov gave a mandatary evac order and didn't want people to have the incentive to stay where they were. This part a total break down in the situation, IMHO....no matter if was a because of bad communication from the Gov or bad judgement from the Homeland side.

    It is also starting to be looked at where all the hundreds of thousands of dollars that spent in preparing for such disaster went. Apparently there was suppose to plans to be executed PRIOR to a big storm like this one and nothing happened. This would be a failure on the local level.

    The other thing I found interesting is that despite all the yelling on the Left blaming everything but the total creation of the storm on Bush is that a national poll showed today that only 13% blamed Bush for the aftermath and out of the Dems that voted that 73% of them blamed Bush.
  13. #953  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    This is unproven and I call BS! Did you hear this on Fox or one of it's heads?
    Did Fox report this too?

    "Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

    The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly."

    Washington Post
  14. #954  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    Not the point... Yeah, I get that the local authorities completely dropped the ball, but the fed shoulda been providing backup support a hell of a lot quicker after seeing how poorly the state was handling it on its own.

    If a nuke blew up in New Orleans, you'd think they'd have guys on their way that same afternoon, right?

    Whats the difference? Oh, it's a natural disaster -- their responsibility -- no rush, fvck em? cmon.

    The fact is, our current gov't is NOT capable of properly responding to a DISASTER. Where's Cheney in the middle of this national crisis, btw?
    I agree we need a better response after the first responders (local and state govt) by the federal govt.
  15. #955  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    hehe ur such a party fanboy
    Just the facts. I speak only the truth.
  16. NRG
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    #956  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Man....this thread grows like 4 pages a day....With my limited time with work, I cant even keep up. So if I missed this and it was already posted, I am sorry for double posting.

    While driving today I heard some pretty interesting stuff on CNN, Fox, and MSNBC on my satellite radio.

    As far as who is to blame....this will be a topic of discussion for some time to come, especially with how some are politicalizing this disaster. But I heard a report that as soon as Tuesday Pres Bush was on the phone with the Gov strongly urging her to formally request NG assistance in evacuations. She then told Pres Bush that she needed another 24 hrs to think about it before she made her decision.

    Apparently it came out today the reason that Red Cross was refused entrance to give food and water to those in need was because the Homeland Security for the state blocked them saying that the Gov gave a mandatary evac order and didn't want people to have the incentive to stay where they were. This part a total break down in the situation, IMHO....no matter if was a because of bad communication from the Gov or bad judgement from the Homeland side.

    It is also starting to be looked at where all the hundreds of thousands of dollars that spent in preparing for such disaster went. Apparently there was suppose to plans to be executed PRIOR to a big storm like this one and nothing happened. This would be a failure on the local level.

    The other thing I found interesting is that despite all the yelling on the Left blaming everything but the total creation of the storm on Bush is that a national poll showed today that only 13% blamed Bush for the aftermath and out of the Dems that voted that 73% of them blamed Bush.
    Hobbes please cite. I feel 50% of your post is BS. I would stand to bet the 50% came from Fox.
  17. NRG
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    #957  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Did Fox report this too?

    "Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

    The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly."

    Washington Post
    This does not address the stuff I called BS.
  18. #958  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Did Fox report this too?

    "Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

    The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly."

    Washington Post
    ATM - Perhaps he meant the mandatory evacuation order issued before Katrina hit...

    Miami Herald

    It would seem Bush had to urge her to evacuate the city, not once, but twice. I've stopped watching Fox. Too much Geraldo.
  19. #959  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    This does not address the stuff I called BS.



    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Bush had to call the Governor to get the evacuation going. Pathetic.
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    This is unproven and I call BS! Did you hear this on Fox or one of it's heads?
    Maybe you should elaborate to ATM just what the Hell you were calling BS then, since it seems obvious to me.
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  20. #960  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    This does not address the stuff I called BS.
    Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Bush had to call the Governor to get the evacuation going. Pathetic.
    Originally Posted by NRG
    This is unproven and I call BS! Did you hear this on Fox or one of it's heads?

    I completely covered your two sentence post with an article from the Washington Post. I apologize I don't make stuff up from the liberal blogs like Barry does. Anything I post here is a fact that I can cite from major media.

    This whole thread comes down to this. The local and state govt are responsible for evacuation and first response. They failed. The federal govt is partially responsible for rescue/cleanup after the first responders. The local/state govt gets a F and the federal govt took too long to get on the ground. I won't grade them till I know why they took so long. There is no excuse for not evacuating the people especially when they did a dry run a year before and what happened was predicted. Pathetic.

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