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  1. cardio's Avatar
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    #901  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    These are the things I find the most infuriating with this admin, all look no substance!!!!
    I truly feel their pain in this one. During my military career (first 11 years as a firefighter trained in rescue operations) I was asked/ordered to part of a rent-a-crowd on more than one occasion for some dignitary. Gotta make it look like we are sitting on the edge of our seat for this important big shot and I participated in this type of event during both rebuplican and democratic administrations (that was my task during the Y2K ordeal). While I completely disagree with it, it is a fact that it happens all the time.
  2. NRG
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    #902  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Huh, I thought we were all more concerned about the poor people and who is out to kill them.

    Politicians, both sides of the aisle have photo ops. You just hate Bush, so when you find a story like this you think this is the smoking gun. It's no big deal.
    Come on. The bush thing is small potatoes to the way FEMA used these firefighters.
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    #903  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    We typically don't spend large amounts of resources on threats we haven't experienced (regardless of their scientific certainty). Case in point: the New Madrid fault is guaranteed to produce an earthquake of magnitude 7 or higher (Source). It's just a matter of time. This kind of quake would likely destroy St. Louis, Memphis and many other cities in the region. How much is being spent on infrastructure improvements and preparedness? I'm guessing close to $0.
    When this quake hits it is expected to make the Mississippi flow north again as in a past quake (I forgot what year) and flood many cities as mentioned above. When it happens people have been told to expect to be isolated for a month or longer.
  4. #904  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    "They've got people here who are search-and-rescue certified, paramedics, haz-mat certified," said a Texas firefighter. "We're sitting in here having a sexual-harassment class while there are still [victims] in Louisiana who haven't been contacted yet."
    The firefighter, who has encouraged his superiors back home not to send any more volunteers for now, declined to give his name because FEMA has warned them not to talk to reporters.

    -snip-

    But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas

    This confirms my view of the clowns who captured our govt. 5 1/2 years ago --

    Mission 1 is SPIN

    from Rumy, Condi Rice, on down to "doing a helluva good job Brownie" its image first, second, and third --

    performance is for patsies

    why else appoint your campaign manager head of FEMA -- why else when he quits to become a lobbyist do you replacce him with a horse judge -- who had been effectively fired from that job ??
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  5. #905  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Come on. The bush thing is small potatoes to the way FEMA used these firefighters.
    Then post facts on how FEMA screwed up not quotes like this...

    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    This is not about blame, this is about how it is all about photo-ops.
  6. NRG
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    #906  
    Would you all be willing to elect me if I get rid of all this crap (staged photo-ops, spin, and all the other garbage). I will talk to you all in a straight forward manner. I will be sure our military is FULLY funded and only used for it's intended purpose. Education will become just as important as defense. All government contracts will go through a bidding process. Just to name a few. Plus I will be a frequent at message boards to gather your thoughts.

    I've got more thoughts. Ask and you shall get.
  7. #907  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    This confirms my view of the clowns who captured our govt. 5 1/2 years ago --

    Mission 1 is SPIN

    from Rumy, Condi Rice, on down to "doing a helluva good job Brownie" its image first, second, and third --

    performance is for patsies

    why else appoint your campaign manager head of FEMA -- why else when he quits to become a lobbyist do you replacce him with a horse judge -- who had been effectively fired from that job ??
    Your hatred for Bush does not provide facts on why so many people died.
  8. NRG
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    #908  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE

    why else appoint your campaign manager head of FEMA -- why else when he quits to become a lobbyist do you replacce him with a horse judge -- who had been effectively fired from that job ??
    He donated to his campiagn.
  9. #909  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Would you all be willing to elect me if I get rid of all this crap (staged photo-ops, spin, and all the other garbage). I will talk to you all in a straight forward manner. I will be sure our military is FULLY funded and only used for it's intended purpose. Education will become just as important as defense. All government contracts will go through a bidding process. Just to name a few. Plus I will be a frequent at message boards to gather your thoughts.

    I've got more thoughts. Ask and you shall get.
    I would love, at least for a little while, both sides to meet in the middle ground - stop b!tchin about the war and finish the war; stop Katrina blame and save people and get people back to MS and NO, etc., etc. But, unfortunately it is not gonna happen. Many, albeit not the majority hate Bush. The difference with Clinton is I didn't want him in office, but I didn't hate him. I think liberals feel they have to hate everyone that doesn't have their same views - and protest every decision Pres Bush makes.
  10. #910  
    FEMA Chief Sent Help Only After Storm Hit
    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- The top U.S. disaster official waited hours after Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast before he proposed to his boss sending at least 1,000 Homeland Security workers into the region to support rescuers, internal documents show.

    Part of the mission, according to the documents obtained by The Associated Press, was to ''convey a positive image'' about the government's response for victims.

    Acknowledging that such a move would take two days, Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sought the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff roughly five hours after Katrina made landfall on Aug. 29...

    Instead of rescuing people or recovering bodies, these employees would focus on helping victims find the help they needed, he said.

    ''There will be plenty of time to assess what worked and what didn't work,'' Knocke said. ''Clearly there will be time for blame to be assigned and to learn from some of the successful efforts.''

    Brown's memo told employees that among their duties, they would be expected to ''convey a positive image of disaster operations to government officials, community organizations and the general public.''...
    Knocke said the 48-hour period indicated for the Homeland employees was to ensure they had adequate training. ''They were training to help the lifesavers,'' Knocke said.

    Employees required a supervisor's approval and at least 24 hours of disaster training in Maryland, Florida or Georgia. ''You must be physically able to work in a disaster area without refrigeration for medications and have the ability to work in the outdoors all day,'' Brown wrote.

    The same day Brown wrote Chertoff, Brown also urged local fire and rescue departments outside Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi not to send trucks or emergency workers into disaster areas without an explicit request for help from state or local governments. Brown said it was vital to coordinate fire and rescue efforts...


    ...the airline industry said the government's request for help evacuating storm victims didn't come until late Thursday afternoon. The president of the Air Transport Association, James May, said the Homeland Security Department called then to ask whether the group could participate in an airlift for refugees.
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/07/2005 at 11:29 AM.
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  11. #911  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    He donated to his campiagn.
    Patronage in a political bureaucracy? Say it ain't so!

    Having said that... a slightly less, uh, idiotic donor could have been chosen for the job.
  12. #912  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    why else appoint your campaign manager head of FEMA -- why else when he quits to become a lobbyist do you replacce him with a horse judge -- who had been effectively fired from that job ??
    He's an attorney.
  13. #913  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    FEMA Chief Sent Help Only After Storm Hit
    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- The top U.S. disaster official waited hours after Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast before he proposed to his boss sending at least 1,000 Homeland Security workers into the region to support rescuers, internal documents show.

    Part of the mission, according to the documents obtained by The Associated Press, was to ''convey a positive image'' about the government's response for victims.

    Acknowledging that such a move would take two days, Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sought the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff roughly five hours after Katrina made landfall on Aug. 29...

    Instead of rescuing people or recovering bodies, these employees would focus on helping victims find the help they needed, he said.

    ''There will be plenty of time to assess what worked and what didn't work,'' Knocke said. ''Clearly there will be time for blame to be assigned and to learn from some of the successful efforts.''

    Brown's memo told employees that among their duties, they would be expected to ''convey a positive image of disaster operations to government officials, community organizations and the general public.''...
    Knocke said the 48-hour period indicated for the Homeland employees was to ensure they had adequate training. ''They were training to help the lifesavers,'' Knocke said.

    Employees required a supervisor's approval and at least 24 hours of disaster training in Maryland, Florida or Georgia. ''You must be physically able to work in a disaster area without refrigeration for medications and have the ability to work in the outdoors all day,'' Brown wrote.

    The same day Brown wrote Chertoff, Brown also urged local fire and rescue departments outside Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi not to send trucks or emergency workers into disaster areas without an explicit request for help from state or local governments. Brown said it was vital to coordinate fire and rescue efforts
    Mike Brown may be fired in the end. The pre-storm problem getting people out of NO is the fault of the Governor and the Mayor - nothing to do with FEMA and Bush.
  14. #914  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    He's an attorney.
    and apparently a great judge of horse flesh --

    err -- maybe not so good ...
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  15. cardio's Avatar
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    #915  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    This confirms my view of the clowns who captured our govt. 5 1/2 years ago --

    Mission 1 is SPIN

    from Rumy, Condi Rice, on down to "doing a helluva good job Brownie" its image first, second, and third --

    performance is for patsies

    why else appoint your campaign manager head of FEMA -- why else when he quits to become a lobbyist do you replacce him with a horse judge -- who had been effectively fired from that job ??
    Barye, can't just blame this admin for this type of event. I participated in what we called dog and pony shows as a member of the rent-a-crowd for President Clinton and President Bush I during times my training could have been used much more effectively. I do not agree with it happening now nor did I agree in the mid 90's in Europe during terrorist bombings of base facilities, Y2K in DC or immediately post 9-11 when I was told to stand tall for photos. It is wrong to use trained staff for photo ops but every admin has done it and will continue to do it.
  16. #916  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    and apparently a great judge of horse flesh --

    err -- maybe not so good ...
    Yesterday you had commented on five or six things you had not links to. I did searches and could not substantiate your comments based on liberal blogs. Did you ever find the links to prove the blog claims?
  17. cardio's Avatar
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    #917  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    and apparently a great judge of horse flesh --

    err -- maybe not so good ...
    Quick and should be an easy question. Where did you get the information he was a horse judge? I have seen articles talking about him being the commisioner of the Arabian Horse something or other. What I read says he was over the judges and was to make sure they followed the rules. Maybe he was a horse judge judge, but I have not seen where he was the judge. I may have just missed it though.
  18. #918  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Barye, can't just blame this admin for this type of event. I participated in what we called dog and pony shows as a member of the rent-a-crowd for President Clinton and President Bush I during times my training could have been used much more effectively. I do not agree with it happening now nor did I agree in the mid 90's in Europe during terrorist bombings of base facilities, Y2K in DC or immediately post 9-11 when I was told to stand tall for photos. It is wrong to use trained staff for photo ops but every admin has done it and will continue to do it.

    Cardio -- were you in the midst of a "lives in the balance" situation during your photo ops ??
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  19. #919  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    When this quake hits it is expected to make the Mississippi flow north again as in a past quake (I forgot what year) and flood many cities as mentioned above. When it happens people have been told to expect to be isolated for a month or longer.
    Right. Just as New Orleans and New Orleanians were told to expect 3-5 days until help could arrive. Help seems to arrived on the outer edge of that timeframe because of mistakes made by FEMA - mistakes they will be answerable for. But clearly it was up to local and state officials to see to the basic needs of the population through the evacuation and immediate aftermath of the disaster.
  20. #920  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Quick and should be an easy question. Where did you get the information he was a horse judge? I have seen articles talking about him being the commisioner of the Arabian Horse something or other. What I read says he was over the judges and was to make sure they followed the rules. Maybe he was a horse judge judge, but I have not seen where he was the judge. I may have just missed it though.

    you are probably describing his job more fairly than me -- I'm just being dismissively sarcastic about the career he had before he came to be responsible for our country's disasters
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