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  1. #801  
    Presidents William Jefferson Clinton and George Herbert Walker Bush seem to believe that HST's sign is still on the desk. "The president can (must) handle it (the criticism)."
    Last edited by whmurray; 09/05/2005 at 05:37 PM.
  2. #802  
    The use of the words "refugees," "evacuees," "victims," and "diaspora" are being politicized. The victims do not like the use of the word "refugee;" they believe that it is being used to marginalize them. I admit that I used it and by design and intent. I was trying to focus on them the compassion and concern that the word ought to evoke at a time when they were hungry, thirsty, dirty, frightened, being accused of lawlessness and looting, and otherwise being ignored.
    Last edited by whmurray; 09/05/2005 at 09:26 PM.
  3. #803  
    I know I've been posting a lot of links, and the sources are debatable, as some are from blogs and what not, but I did want your opinion on the link below that I posted earlier. Just for the sake of conversation. I know some said the local govt followed procedure and some say they did not. I'm not well versed politically but I do like to read opinions on the things that go on. You have to click on the link to get the full story and the letters the gov allegedly wrote.

    Also I just viewed the snubjob news clip that was posted, does anyone think the gov is unwilling to give up control of the national guard BECAUSE she knows her local citizens would be neglected or possibly harmed? I got the impression she doesnt trust them to do the right thing, more than it being simply a power struggle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyaki
    another article: http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/9/5/133054/4269


    The Governor of Louisiana declared a State of Emergency on 26 August 2005, which is a pre-requisite for invoking the Stafford Act:


    Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco today issued Proclamation No. 48 KBB 2005, declaring a state of emergency for the state Louisiana as Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of the state of Louisiana The state of emergency extends from Friday, August 26, 2005, through Sunday, September 25, 2005, unless terminated sooner.


    The Governor, per the National Response Plan, followed this request with a letter on Saturday, 27 August 2005, invoking the Stafford Act. Note this letter inludes specific requests for aid:



    ...continued on the link above
    The value of knowledge is not in its possession, but in its use.
  4. NRG
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    #804  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyaki
    the letters the gov allegedly wrote.
    Not allegedly. Here is the state's DECLARATION OF STATE OF EMERGENCY press release. And here is the letter to the President.
    Last edited by NRG; 09/05/2005 at 07:06 PM.
  5. #805  
    video of police looting http://www.wimp.com/orleans/
    The value of knowledge is not in its possession, but in its use.
  6. #806  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyaki
    video of police looting http://www.wimp.com/orleans/
    "The police have broad powers to commandeer in an emergency." One might characterize this activity as looting but could not make a case in court.
  7. #807  
    OK. Let me see if I have this right:

    - 8/26: LA Gov declares state of emergency (source: link given by NRG)
    - 8/27: NO Mayor orders non-mandatory evacuation - National Hurricane Ctr laters calls him to urge a mandatory evac. (source:Miami Herald)
    - 8/27: LA Gov sends formal request for aid to POTUS (source: link given by NRG)
    - 8/27: POTUS declares state of emergency in LA (source:Miami Herald)
    - 8/28: Last resort shelters open - people are told to bring food & water for 3-5 days (source:Miami Herald)
    - 8/28: POTUS extends state of emergency to MS (source:Miami Herald)
    - 8/28: After a personal appeal from the POTUS, NO Mayor orders mandatory evac. (source:Miami Herald)
    - 8/29 (5:30PM CDT): The vital 17th street levee fails. (source:Miami Herald)
    - 8/29 (9:00PM CDT): Toilets at the Superdome begin to fail and evacuees are not allowed to leave. (source:Miami Herald)
    This brings us to Tuesday, 8/30 when the White House issued this press release detailing what had been put in place up to Tuesday: http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakin...08.html#075222

    So where, exactly, was the ball dropped? Reading the Booman Tribune quoted below, one might get the impression that the LA Governor asked for aid and nothing happened until the trucks showed up in NO on Friday... his assertion appears to be complete bunk.
  8. #808  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Inequalities built into the system...you speak the code well.

    This disaster is a direct result of the welfare state. The inequalities of which you so passionately speak come from generations that were fed a bare subsistance. Liberal policies created the Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies subsociety which surfaced this past week, at a time when civilization was at its most vulnerable. Having come to expect government to provide for their every need, I guess it was reasonable for these people to assume that Big Brother would step in again. A hard lesson...I wonder who learned it?
    You quickly went from ad hominem to ad nauseum. Instead of every need perhaps local and federal governments can provide, in general, certain baseline educational needs that are almost certainly never met. Among other things, decent schools and teachers would be a wonderful start for those survivors of this tragedy who are now indefinitely displaced.

    Firstly, "liberal policies" are not always the right policies in their construction and application while they may be in theory. We endeavor to find the right policy. Secondly, years of institutional racism and overt discriminination (e.g. Slavery, Chinese exclusionary acts, Post Pearl Harbor Japanese discrimination) are not only actions that people engaged in, but what government encouraged, supported and funded. There's a reason why junior high school and high school kids read books like AF, LOTF and 1984: to understand systems of government and their theoretical underpinnings. However, I cannot be bothered to argue Animalism vs. Marxism when we have a system and society in place that requires attention to existing real world scenarios in a much more complex context (i.e. our government).


    Regarding the planning, are you claiming that the government of New Orleans planned the demise of their own populace? Surely you must be, because the mayor OWNED those school buses and the metro buses that right now are covered in water. To have no evacuation plan, after decades of knowing this was coming, rises well above normal government incompetence to the realm of criminal negligence.
    No, certainly not planning, as you suggest, and far from it. I would say neglecting, shelving, under the rug-ging, because of priorities and inefficiencies of the local government.

    You claim to eschew ad hominems, but refer to me as "soldier" and "tiger" "Rotating on the ignorance stick", etc. Your contempt for my service drips from your words. Your hypocrisy glows. And your characterization of shooting at relief workers are "unruly" behavior really lowers the bar. You must really long for the "wilding" days of Mayor Dinkins up in NYC.
    About ad hominems. Recognize that that was my only post where any reference was made remotely close to an ad hominem and, further, wasn't even to advance a position. It was mere rhetoric. Your paper trail of vituperative utterances, needless to say, run rampant in your arguments (and in their collective tone). Yet what remains classic is the steam billowing from your ears when I threw in a few jabs in a single post. Were they that good? Did you laugh? I assume this is implicit acceptance of your own ad hominem problem. Thanks for the cake...and the cherry too.

    I'll carry this as far as you want, but know this. I was among the first on this board to scream BS at the speed of the federal response to this disaster, given the obvious incompetence of local authorities. I laid out EXACTLY how I would have planned and dealt with this situation. You have done nothing but race and class bait by innuendo. Where are your solutions?
    I don't deny the lack of preparedness of local authorities. Any innuendos that you may have read is sprinkled rhetoric on top of the entire foundation of this argument: Possible reasons for an extremely slow federal response.

    Now we may differ on what "extremely slow" means or whether or not you even consider the term "extremely". The fact of the matter is that explanations are necessary. But, using the local authorities, your beloved straw man, and their incompetence (as you call it) to deflect the argument at hand is fallacious. It doesn't matter how competent the local authorities were. Only 6-12 hours after the storm could everyone on the planet recognize that levees were breached, people were trapped, people were dying and electricity was gone. At THAT point there was a strong cry from the nation, including the people of New Orleans, and the local authorities for aid from the federal government. Where was that aid? Why was it not there? Crying local authority incompetence is irrelevant to aiding a situtation at hand which could have been alleviated if Brother did have a plan (or inclination) in place.

    While your solutions are practical and may one day be a model for world, national and local leaders to etch into their disaster prevention systems, they (solutions) do not, under any circumstances, resolve the absurb level of disorganization and "incompetence" displayed by the most influential and powerful governing body in the world.
    Last edited by illustreous; 09/06/2005 at 10:09 AM.
  9. #809  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    ...So where, exactly, was the ball dropped? Reading the Booman Tribune quoted below, one might get the impression that the LA Governor asked for aid and nothing happened until the trucks showed up in NO on Friday... his assertion appears to be complete bunk.
    Yes? It is clear that those people were still there as late as Saturday night. Your question is interesting; what do you believe the answer to be?

    It might be easy to get involved in legalisms here. We all saw the report on MSNBC on Thursday morning. We all knew that those people had been there for two days without food, water, or sanitation. We knew that people were dying. Most of us were impotent but in agony. I do not think that it makes much difference whether the Governor, the state of Louisiana, or POTUS, the feds, were responsible to succor them. Both were responsible for knowing what we all knew. Both of them should have done something. If each was waiting on the other, then a plague on both their houses. However, it seems clear that the Red Cross had to be restrained by one or the other of them.

    When the world looks at those tapes they are not going to ask the questions that you are raising. They are not going to conclude that we did the best we could under impossible circumstances. They are going to say that we, collectively, the American people, stand guilty. If they are generous, they will judge us incompetent. More likely they will judge us callous, mean, or wicked.

    [I watched the BBC tonight to see what the rest of the world thinks of us. I think that they thought they were being charitable but I felt patronized.]
  10. #810  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Yes? It is clear that those people were still there as late as Saturday night. Your question is interesting; what do you believe the answer to be?
    First off, I should have made it clearer that this question is a direct response to the blog article mentioned earlier - I was not asking where the ball was dropped in referrence to the emergency response as a whole. But since you asked...
    It might be easy to get involved in legalisms here. We all saw the report on MSNBC on Thursday morning. We all knew that those people had been there for two days without food, water, or sanitation. We knew that people were dying. Most of us were impotent but in agony. I do not think that it makes much difference whether the Governor, the state of Louisiana, or POTUS, the feds, were responsible to succor them. Both were responsible for knowing what we all knew.
    Yes. But only one was there - the locals. All planning called for the local officials to maintain civil order for 3-5 days after a major disaster, which this obviously was. Any relief in force had to have been staged outside of any potential disaster area, lest they become part of it (and, obviously they could have no way of knowing exactly where that might be). They then had to reach the area with appropriate resources (again with only an outline of what they might need). Oh and with no ports, airfields, fuel stations and few passable roads. I think 3-5 days is a reasonable amount of time to reach the far end of a disaster area the size of Great Britain. From what I've been able to find, the response time in this case was longer by 1-2 days than previous hurricane relief efforts. Given the massive extent of the damage, I think adjectives I've seen thrown around like "criminal" and "negligent", while good for riling up the partisan troops, are innapropriate in this case (I'm not referring to anything you've said here - in trying to establish my facts I've had to read plenty of bile).
    Both of them should have done something. If each was waiting on the other, then a plague on both their houses. However, it seems clear that the Red Cross had to be restrained by one or the other of them.
    I can't imagine anyone defending not allowing the Red Cross in (or some of the other stories I've seen of aid turned away). Pure bureaucratic stupidity, most likely. Any any rate, deserving of termination. As an aside - the head of FEMA certainly does seem to be a complete and total *****. And he's in way over his head. And he should be the first one out the door.
    When the world looks at those tapes they are not going to ask the questions that you are raising. They are not going to conclude that we did the best we could under impossible circumstances. They are going to say that we, collectively, the American people, stand guilty. If they are generous, they will judge us incompetent. More likely they will judge us callous, mean, or wicked.
    We're going to be judged harshly by the world no matter what. If they aren't interested in the truth, well what are we supposed to do about that? My current read on the facts I've seen (and I'm certainly open to new facts) is that everyone at the federal level did as they were expected, but initially underestimated the resources need to deal with the enormity of what happened - this is likely part of the additional 1-2 days mentioned above. The local officials did not have adequate preparations for the 3-5 days the plans told them to expect to have to wait. That folks in the shelters were in serious distress on day 2 is de facto evidence of this. Local officials asked evacuees to bring 3-5 days of food and water, clearly indicating this wait for help was their expectation - yet inadequate additional supplies were brought in for those people.
    [I watched the BBC tonight to see what the rest of the world thinks of us. I think that they thought they were being charitable but I felt patronized.]
    I think that's just how the BBC always is.

    You're right about getting involved in legalisms. It doesn't matter much to the family of a person who died Friday whether the state or federal officials were the bureaucrats who made it more likely to happen. I do believe it's important to establish the facts of what happened though. To whatever extent possible, changes should be made to the system. There will be a next time.
  11. #811  
    The Chicago Tribune has another story about essential help turned away from New Orleans by FEMA.

    The USS Bataan Marine attack carrier, was ready and available -- and in New Orleans Monday afternoon. It was literally there BEFORE THE LEVEE BROKE !!!!

    The ship was the PERFECT emergency support vessel:

    It contains on board a large fully equipped and staffed hospital, facilities for making 100,000 gallons of fresh water a day, power generators, helicopters, hovercraft, Tons of food and medical supplies, Marines, and engineers.

    Its captain appealed to FEMA to be allowed to help.

    It was eventually ordered away from N.O. -- to Biloxi, MS.


    Navy ship nearby underused
    With Food, Water, & Doctors needed orders

    Stephen J. Hedges Chicago Tribune
    September 4, 2005

    ON THE USS BATAAN -- While federal and state emergency planners scramble to get more military relief to Gulf Coast communities stricken by Hurricane Katrina, a massive naval goodwill station has been cruising offshore, underused and waiting for a larger role in the effort.

    The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore.

    The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents.

    But now the Bataan's hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty. A good share of its 1,200 sailors could also go ashore to help with the relief effort, but they haven't been asked. The Bataan has been in the stricken region the longest of any military unit, but federal authorities have yet to fully utilize the ship.

    Captain ready, waiting

    "Could we do more?" said Capt. Nora Tyson, commander of the Bataan. "Sure. I've got sailors who could be on the beach plucking through garbage or distributing water and food and stuff. But I can't force myself on people.

    ...if they need to send the overflow [of injured] out here, we're ready. We've got lots of room."

    ...Bataan, though, was already in the gulf when Katrina crossed Florida and picked up new, devastating energy from the warm gulf waters. The ship, sailing near the Texas coastline, had just finished an exercise in Panama ...

    The initial belief, Tyson said, was that the city had been spared.

    "On Monday it was like, `Wow, it missed us, it took a turn east,' and everything eased up," Tyson aid. "It was `Let's open up Bourbon Street, have a beer, let's go party, and understandably so. And then all of a sudden, literally and figuratively, the dam broke, and here we are."

    When the city's levees broke Tuesday, Tyson's pilots were rescuing stranded residents. Communications became muddled as the rescue and humanitarian supply efforts were bogged down by rising water and sketchy information. Tyson, who would get debriefings from returning pilots, had perhaps one of the best vantage points to see what was unfolding.

    Then the Bataan was ordered to move to the waters off Biloxi, Miss., and LCU-1656 was ordered to return. The landing craft was 40 miles from New Orleans, but it wouldn't be able to deliver its cargo.

    "It was a disappointment," Fish said. "I figured we would be a big help in New Orleans. We've got electricity, and the police could have charged up their radios. We've got water, toilets. We've got food."...

    ...The role in the relief effort of the sizable medical staff on board the Bataan was not up to the Navy, but to FEMA officials directing the overall effort...


    I wish some network would document into one large news report/documentary all of these acts by junior and his cronies at FEMA, that lead directly to preventable death and destruction.


    1. 500 volunteers attempted to use 1000 shallow draft long boats to rescue survivors, but were turned back by FEMA

    2. Midwest bottlers attempted to donate tons of bottled water -- but FEMA turned them away.

    3. Walmart attempted to deliver tons of bottled water, FEMA turned them away.

    4. U.S. Forest Service had water-tanker aircraft available to help douse the fires raging on our river front, but FEMA did not accept the aid.

    5. When Amtrak offered trains to evacuate significant numbers of victims -- far more efficiently than buses -- FEMA again dragged its feet.

    6. The USS Battaan's help was turned away from New Orleans at the very moment its need was for it was greatest.
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/06/2005 at 01:05 AM.
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  12. #812  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    I watched the BBC tonight to see what the rest of the world thinks of us.
    I guess many got the impression that FEMA, the Agency of the US government tasked with Disaster Mitigation, Preparedness,
    Response & Recovery planning is run by somebody as qualified for the job as, say, the chief rules enforcer of the Arabian horse association. Which in fact is how it is. Why Bush trusted the lives of his compatriots in the case of a major emergency to somebody as qualified as Michael Brown is something I would like to know in case Brown was in charge of taking care of me and my family in the case of an emergency.

    But of course it is not only FEMA's fault. It seems that things didn't work on all levels (levee maintenance and repair, evacuation, dealing with an evacuated city, bringing help into the city).
    Last edited by clulup; 09/06/2005 at 02:54 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  13. #813  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I guess many got the impression that FEMA, the Agency of the US government tasked with Disaster Mitigation, Preparedness,
    Response & Recovery planning is run by somebody as qualified for the job as, say, the chief rules enforcer of the Arabian horse association. Which in fact is how it is. Why Bush trusted the lives of his compatriots in the case of a major emergency to somebody as qualified as Michael Brown is something I would like to know in case Brown was in charge of taking care of me and my family in the case of an emergency.

    But of course it is not only FEMA's fault. It seems that things didn't work on all levels (levee maintenance and repair, evacuation, dealing with an evacuated city, bringing help into the city).

    you are far too gentle with them -- and him in particular.

    If you read all the appalling acts where FEMA literally obstructed the life saving efforts of volunteers -- its hard to not be outraged.


    FEMA Director Singled Out by Response Critics

    By Spencer S. Hsu and Susan B. Glasser
    Washington Post September 6, 2005; A01

    Michael D. Brown has been called the accidental director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, caricatured as the failed head of an Arabian horse sporting group who was plucked from obscurity to become President Bush's point man for the worst natural disaster in U.S. history.

    Amid the swirl of human misery along the Gulf Coast, Brown admitted initially underestimating the impact of Hurricane Katrina, whose winds and water swamped the agency's preparations. As the nation reeled at images of the calamity, he appeared to blame storm victims by noting that the crisis was worsened by New Orleans residents who did not comply with a mandatory evacuation order.

    ...Joe M. Allbaugh -- a college friend, former Bush campaign manager and past FEMA director who hired Brown as FEMA general counsel in 2001 ...

    ...Brown's political background has become a liability, leading to charges that he was given his job as patronage...

    While Chertoff said the levee breach that flooded New Orleans "exceeded the foresight of planners," Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center, said Brown and other top federal officials were briefed as much as 32 hours in advance of landfall that Hurricane Katrina's storm surge was likely to overtop levees and cause catastrophic flooding.

    "They knew that this one was different," Mayfield said yesterday. "I don't think Mike Brown or anyone else in FEMA could have any reason to have any problem with our calls...
    They were told...We said the levees could be topped."

    Louisiana officials have blamed FEMA and Brown for bureaucratic bottlenecks, accusing FEMA of ignoring pre-storm offers of aid from Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley (D), New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson (D) and the American Ambulance Association.

    In his last extended TV interview on CNN,Brown admitted Thursday that the federal government did not know that thousands of survivors without food or water had taken shelter at the city's convention center, despite a day of news reports...
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  14. #814  
    Why is the US government turning down help from abroad? I know that the Swedish rescue troops that were sent in after the tsunami disaster were ready to go, but their offer was turned down.
  15. #815  
    Where was John Wayne? Did I miss him because there was no white horse? Where were Burt Lancaster and Charlton Heston? Where was the Cavalry? Where was that vaunted American kick-*** won't-take-no-for-an-answer leadership that we have seen in earlier American crisis? Where were the Finest and the Bravest?

    Have we become so docile and so subservient to authority that when government fails us we can no longer take care of ourselves, that when they err we have no remedy? How did one FEMA wimp turn back a flotilla of would-be-rescuers to Lafayette? How tall was he? What color was his hat? Did we return George W. Bush to office for 9/11 only to get Katrina? Have I lived too long?

    Tell me it isn't so. Please tell me where the heroes were. Tell me who distributed the water. Tell me who carried the crippled. Tell me who risked their lives for others. Tell me who treated the sick, who wiped the bottoms, changed the diapers. Tell me who protected the weak. Tell me who pushed the broom. Tell me who led others in song and prayer. Tell me who took in the homeless. Tell me who counted their blessings and gave of their bounty. Tell me who did their jobs in spite of wind, rain, and fast rising water. Tell me who spoke truth to power. Tell me who the heroes were. Tell me their stories. Tell me they really were there.
  16. #816  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    If you read all the appalling acts where FEMA literally obstructed the life saving efforts of volunteers -- its hard to not be outraged.
    Let's all be a little cautious about accepting uncritically everything we read...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/st...563532,00.html
  17. #817  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    ........Please tell me where the heroes were. Tell me who distributed the water. Tell me who carried the crippled. Tell me who risked their lives for others. Tell me who treated the sick, who wiped the bottoms, changed the diapers. Tell me who protected the weak. Tell me who pushed the broom. Tell me who led others in song and prayer. Tell me who took in the homeless. Tell me who counted their blessings and gave of their bounty. Tell me who did their jobs in spite of wind, rain, and fast rising water. Tell me who spoke truth to power. Tell me who the heroes were. Tell me their stories. Tell me they really were there.
    Nobody? No heroes? No stories? Well try this one.

    Four girls in Norwalk, the town south of mine, held a bake sale over the weekend for the victims of Katrina . Would you believe $11000? Talk about your heroes.
  18. #818  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Nobody? No heroes? No stories? Well try this one.

    Four girls in Norwalk, the town south of mine, held a bake sale over the weekend for the victims of Katrina . Would you believe $11000? Talk about your heroes.
    Here is a hero
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    #819  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I can't give much time to this now but here's my quick (tired) read.


    If I'm the head of FEMA this is what I and or my staff would have been doing:

    Thurs- Friday when forecasters started describing with forboding Katrina's path -- and the probability that it would strengthen fiercely and that it was liable to head for New Orleans.

    FEMA's staff would have been reviewing the plans already constructed of what a Cat. 5 storm would mean for New Orleans. Phone calls made to assess status of National Guard and their equipment. Discovering that La. has 40% of its Nat. Guard personel and gear in Iraq, immediate inquiries are made to arrange standby committment of gear and people from neighboring states that will be untargetted by Katrina.

    Begin discussing with NO mayor what dangers a cat. 5 storm would mean to NO. Recognize the vulnerability of NO's levees that were only built to withstand a cat.3 storm. Raise with the mayor the possibility that an unprecedented full city evacuation might be apropriate. Ask the mayor what he might need to achieve this -- does he need buses or shelter destinations outside NO ???

    Saturday Cat 5 storm aiming for NO. Recognize that this is now the most probable scenario. Knowing that the strongest storm ever to head for a city is bearing down toward NO and its vulnerability -- FEMA and the mayor would have decided to order a full evacuation.

    Levee recovery contractors, gear, and materials would be retained for the probability of a levee break -- and propositioned. Mobilize Army Corps of Engineers -- have them on standby with all their gear for levee recovery on the ready.

    As soon as weather conditions permit, a concerted survey of the levees would be begun by helicopter, motorcycle, bicycle etc. continually checking on the status of the levee. This examination of the levee will be intense and round the clock -- realizing that storm water is going to collect in the rivers and lake for days -- make certain that the if anyone sees serious levee overflow that Helicopters be available for quick dispatch with with heavy material to reenforce any endangered levee areas.

    Throughout, all staff would have made all decisions based on the predicate that the levees will fail -- and be prepared for the worst.
    BARYE, that is great planning if we know for sure the storm would stay on projected course. What if somone had taken those steps (to include the Mayor of NO starting to evacaute the under privalged with that large bus fleet we saw sitting in the lake) and the storm turned right and struck Destin Florida, or hit the Texas coast instead. There have been several major storms projected to hit NO right up to less than 12 hours of landfall that turned and hit in an enitrely different area. It is easy to say we should have done XYZ, but we did not, we includes the residents, the city officials, the parish officials, the state officials, the national officials.
  20. #820  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Let's all be a little cautious about accepting uncritically everything we read...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/st...563532,00.html

    thanks for finding that article --

    The caution to be skptical about the stories that we've heard is fair -- but many of the events that I mentioned above have multiple sources associated with them, and come from very credible media -- like the Chicago Tribune's story about how the helicopter carrier Battaan went unused though it was desperately needed, and enthusiastically available.

    Its a little ironic that the refuting of those often repeated myths about those horrific events had to come from a foriegn paper.

    The american press for the most part though, has done a far more truthful job of telling the appalling story of Katrina than any it has told in the last 13 years.

    When they themselves could easily drive into New Orleans, get resupplied with water and food, and see buses sitting parked and unused -- it was hard to repeat the lies coming from junior's FEMA that it was impossible to bring into N.O. the resources to rescue people.

    Its as though they were forced by being amongst the scenes of corpses being devoured by rats and people left abandoned to wait patiently in the sun without water, to speak out about the lies coming from this white house -- lies that they have for a very long time just cowardly repeated lest they somehow endanger their own careers.

    whmurray --the journalists who put their comfort and safety on the line daily to bring the world the truth of the suffering that they themselves observed, and who by confronting the lies forced this administration to begin to actually do something to help people -- they were some of the heroes you're looking for.

    The volunteers who tried despite FEMA obstruction to save people on their own , they were some of your heroes...
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/06/2005 at 01:15 PM.
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