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  1. #741  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    You must be on crack

    (if you shooow me your crack, I'll show you mine...)


    "...are you trying to seduce me Mrs. Robinson ???"
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  2. #742  
    Oooooooooohooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
    Getting out of control ,here !!
  3. #743  
    Jack Chambless, an economic's professor at Valencia Community College in Orlando says it's not the federal government's role to rebuild private property after a natural disaster, especially when those disasters are expected. The flood that destroyed much of New Orleans didnt come as a suprise to anybody.

    Chambless makes clear that the role of federal government is not to build levees for cities; that role belongs to the individual state or city to decide. He says the people of New Orleans choose to live there, knowing full well the risks of living below sea level. Therefore, it is up to them to pay for the systems and private insurance needed to keep them safe. If people decide to build their homes in an avalanche zone, is it government's responsibility to rebuild their homes after the avalanche? His answer is no.

    Insurance companies refuse to insure property in flood zones, or avalanche areas or near the lava flows in Hawaii. So if the marketplace finds that it is too dangerous to insure someone living in an area, then perhaps that is an indication people must live there at their own risk. If people still feel they must live there, they should be the ones to cover the cost of that risk.

    Chambless says it's not the federal government's job to rebuild a city that Nature will destroy again at some point.

    Interesting Read
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  4. #744  
    Do we need to rebuild NO ?
    Knowing that these disasters will happen again .
  5. #745  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    Do we need to rebuild NO ?
    Knowing that these disasters will happen again .
    Sure, but who pays??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  6. #746  
    I don't know if anyone has seen this or if its been posted. I apologize if its posted twice.

    http://talkleft.com/new_archives/012103.html

    Friday :: September 02, 2005
    News Heroes
    I've never seen anything as harrowing as Fox News' Geraldo Rivera and Shepard Smith on Hannity and Colmes. While Aaron Brown on CNN said we have "turned the corner", it's clearly not the truth. There are thousands of people trapped in what Geraldo called "this Hell on earth" at the convention center. No one has been bused out. Shepard was on I-10 and just devastating in his description of the "hundreds and hundreds and hundreds" of people being denied exit and still without food, water, medicine or water.

    Crooks and Liars has the video, don't miss this one.

    When a network like Fox can't prevent its reporters from speaking the truth, you have to know the situation is so much worse than we've been told. Geraldo was crying, Shep Smith looked like he wanted to drive a knife thorough Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes. How frustrating for them to watch reality get trumped by spinned photos of supply-laden ships arriving. The reality is that 12 hours after those ships arrived, nothing has changed for those in lock-down at the convention center or exiled on a highway.

    Geraldo, Shep Smith and CNN's Anderson Cooper are heroes. Tell their networks. We need unfiltered news. We need the truth. And they are telling it.
    The value of knowledge is not in its possession, but in its use.
  7. #747  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    Do we need to rebuild NO ?
    Knowing that these disasters will happen again .
    Absolutely yes... for many reasons, but the practical considerations alone are clear and convincing to me. The Mississippi River, the Port of New Orleans, and the Port of Southern Louisiana are the lynchpin of a huge portion of the American transportation infrastructure and economy. The refineries and pipelines are also very important, of course. None of that infrastructure is irreparably damaged - however the destruction in New Orleans leaves nowhere for the people needed to keep those things running to live. New Orleans is in a terrible geographical position, but alas it's where it must be.
  8. #748  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Absolutely yes... for many reasons, but the practical considerations alone are clear and convincing to me. The Mississippi River, the Port of New Orleans, and the Port of Southern Louisiana are the lynchpin of a huge portion of the American transportation infrastructure and economy. The refineries and pipelines are also very important, of course. None of that infrastructure is irreparably damaged - however the destruction in New Orleans leaves nowhere for the people needed to keep those things running to live. New Orleans is in a terrible geographical position, but alas it's where it must be.

    I expect that junior will shortly make a GRAND pledge that New Orleans will rise again -- that if we don't hear Mardi Gras jazz on Bourbon St. the terrorist will have won....

    (not certain on the last part -- will have to double check my cite )
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  9. #749  
    But, how do you justify spending 10-15 billion dollars every 5-10 years, Loss of life , trauma ,dispalcement etc.
  10. #750  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyaki
    I certainly dont condone the shooting, but I do undestand these folx were desperate.
    And I understand that the boaters were heroes. They were asking for the opportunity to be helpful in a disaster. They were not asking for protection. What part of disaster do the bureaucrats not understand. Incidentally, while it may not be true of all boaters, south Louisiana boaters all understand the dangers of operating in flood waters. Hell, most of them are hunters and understand the danger of being shot at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyaki
    have heard/watched/read two diff accounts of this from the NO citizens. One was that they were trying to get the attention of the helicopter to let them know they were there and fired shots. Stuipid, I know but I guess they didnt really have flares. The second account, which I guess could have happened in place of or along with the first one, is that people kept seeing helicopters flying over them, sometimes waving, but never helping or giving water, and they were dying, getting frustrated and one of the men got angry and started shooting yelling "help my family". Again I'm not excusing it, but I understand.

    What I dont understand is why the Red Cross wasnt allowed in.
    No, nor I. While I think that even thugs are a little less likely to shoot at unarmed Red Cross workers than armed troops or even policemen, the Red Cross workers were not asking for bureaucratic protection either. They too are heroes only asking for the freedom to succor the afflicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyaki
    Folx recognize the red cross symbol all over the world. The workers wouldnt have been in any danger from the residents, they would have been welcomed with open arms. One guy even said when relief came "Now I feel part of America again". These folx felt abandoned, and from all the accounts I've read, including on mgno.com, any time anyone tried to approach police, national guard or whatever, they were getting weapons pointed at them, like they were criminals, not U.S. citizens in distress. As far as the situation being dangerous, ISNT THAT PART OF THE RED CROSS JOB DESCRIPTION? I know they dont rescue, they provide relief: medical, food, showers, etc, but they do it in all the most dangerous places in the world, at their own peril. They are safe in the middle of a war zone but not in the middle of a hurricane disaster, while apparently all the newscasters interviewing the residents were? I'm sorry, maybe I'm slo but I JUST DONT GET IT.
  11. #751  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I expect that junior will shortly make a GRAND pledge that New Orleans will rise again
    If he does, he'll be attacked. If he does not, he'll be attacked. At any rate, N.O. will be rebuilt.
  12. NRG
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    #752  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Jack Chambless, an economic's professor at Valencia Community College in Orlando says it's not the federal government's role to rebuild private property after a natural disaster, especially when those disasters are expected. The flood that destroyed much of New Orleans didnt come as a suprise to anybody.
    And he is correct on this, it is not the Feds. duty to rebuild PRIVATE property.

    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Chambless makes clear that the role of federal government is not to build levees for cities; that role belongs to the individual state or city to decide.
    This is BS the levees are the responsibilty of the Army Corp of Engineers, Period. Is it Miami's duty to mantain the Intercoastal Waterway? NO, it is the Army Corp of Engineers.

    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    He says the people of New Orleans choose to live there, knowing full well the risks of living below sea level. Therefore, it is up to them to pay for the systems and private insurance needed to keep them safe. If people decide to build their homes in an avalanche zone, is it government's responsibility to rebuild their homes after the avalanche? His answer is no.
    Right, they should have insurance to cover any diasters that may occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Insurance companies refuse to insure property in flood zones, or avalanche areas or near the lava flows in Hawaii. So if the marketplace finds that it is too dangerous to insure someone living in an area, then perhaps that is an indication people must live there at their own risk. If people still feel they must live there, they should be the ones to cover the cost of that risk.
    Yes, you take your risks when you live in a flood zone. But, if there is failure to fully fund projects that are meant to keep these people safe, then I would say some the blame HAS to be shifted to the federal level.

    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Chambless says it's not the federal government's job to rebuild a city that Nature will destroy again at some point.

    Interesting Read
    No, but if the fed ignores a problem and this occurs they should carry some of the blame and costs.
  13. #753  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    But, how do you justify spending 10-15 billion dollars every 5-10 years, Loss of life , trauma ,dispalcement etc.
    New Orleans has been there nearly 300 hundred years. Another Katrina could happen next week - or in 300 years. All we can do is try to improve the levee system so that it can withstand more than the original design. As I said, a huge portion of our economy is dependant upon New Orleans being where it is. Geography being what it is, we really do not have a choice.
  14. NRG
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    #754  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I expect that junior will shortly make a GRAND pledge that New Orleans will rise again
    He already has, verbatim. Sorry Barye.
  15. #755  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    But, how do you justify spending 10-15 billion dollars every 5-10 years, Loss of life , trauma ,dispalcement etc.

    The true numbers for rebuilding NO will make our head spin and our hair turn grey --- it will be IMMENSELY COSTLY
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  16. #756  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    The true numbers for rebuilding NO will make our head spin and our hair turn grey --- it will be IMMENSELY COSTLY
    Agreed - way, way more than 10-15 billion just for New Orleans when all is said and done.
  17. #757  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    If he does, he'll be attacked. If he does not, he'll be attacked. At any rate, N.O. will be rebuilt.
    What part of "The Buck Stops Here" does he not understand? Did someone take the sign off the desk? Did he or did he not seek the office, not once but twice? Besides, no matter what he does, his apologists (ATM?) will be here defending him and saying that everyone else is to blame. There is more than enough blame in this SNAFU to go around. However much Bush's supporters are prepared to dismiss on his behalf, it is really pretty hard to ignore the Washington Post article.
  18. #758  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    What part of "The Buck Stops Here" does he not understand? Did someone take the sign off the desk? Did he or did he not seek the office, not once but twice? Besides, no matter what he does, his apologists (ATM?) will be here defending him and saying that everyone else is to blame. There is more than enough blame in this SNAFU to go around. However much Bush's supporters are prepared to dismiss on his behalf, it is really pretty hard to ignore the Washington Post article.

    some coming here at the end might have missed the mention of that front page, Washington Post article.

    whmurray-- I think junior's desk has a sign warning bucks to not even slow down on their way by ...
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  19. #759  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Yes, you take your risks when you live in a flood zone. But, if there is failure to fully fund projects that are meant to keep these people safe, then I would say some the blame HAS to be shifted to the federal level.
    Since the levees are a federal responsibility (as they ultimately are), the feds should bear some blame for their failure - however in this particular case not due to a lack of funding. See here (though I allow for the possibility there's some a**-covering going on).
  20. #760  
    I have little doubt that there will be many stories like this -- and that somehow the victims and the heroes who wanted to volunteer to help -- will somehow be smeared with blame....


    Louisiana official haunted by drowned woman

    A New Orleans official was overcome by emotion on national television on Sunday when describing how a woman was abandoned and eventually drowned after repeated promises she would be rescued.

    The guy who runs this building I'm in, the emergency management, who's responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home and every day she called him and said are you coming, son, is somebody coming," Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, said as he burst into heavy sobbing on NBC's Meet the Press program.

    "And he said 'yeah mama, somebody's coming to get ya, somebody's coming to get ya on Tuesday, somebody's coming to get ya on Wednesday, somebody's coming to get ya on Thursday, somebody's coming to get you on Friday.'

    "And she drowned Friday night, she drowned Friday night. Nobody's coming to get us."

    "Nobody's coming to get us, nobody's coming to get us," Broussard said through tears.

    Broussard, president of the parish just south of New Orleans, did not give the woman's name.

    The aftermath of Hurricane Katrina "will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history," he said.

    Local and federal officials said they expected to find thousands of corpses still floating in flood waters or locked inside homes and buildings destroyed by the devastating storm that struck the U.S. Gulf Coast last Monday.

    Broussard said the government must acknowledge the part it played in senseless deaths.

    "It's not just Katrina that caused all these deaths in New Orleans," he said. "Bureaucracy has committed murder here in the greater New Orleans area, and bureaucracy has to stand trial before Congress now."

    He demanded congressional hearings on what went wrong in the chaotic aftermath of the hurricane.

    "They've had press conferences. I'm sick of press conferences. For God's sake, shut up and send us somebody."
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