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  1. #681  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Advance -- I hope you know that I'm just expressing my frustration -- I wasn't directing any anger at you
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2. #682  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    The actual phrase is "All hat...no cattle"

    you are right !!

    (kinda of a paraphrase...)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  3. #683  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    (kinda of a paraphrase...)
    Well at least you had the word hat in there
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  4. #684  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    with respect -- Governors are not disaster specialists -- that is what FEMA exists for.

    This appointed group has shown itself to be BIG on talk -- woeful in performance.

    to paraphrase a Texasism: "big hat, small boy ..."

    Governors have staffs to plan, prepare and coordinate for exactly this sort of thing. Blank Look on her Face was totally unadequate for this task. Couldn't make a decision to save her constituents souls.

    Again a leftist looks to a powerful, central government as the fount of all good. Imagine that.
  5. #685  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    ......What I do find disconcerting was that everyone was "waiting for orders", like the damned Soviet Army. Were I a helo squadron commander I would at this moment have 1) maxed out credit cards and 2) my helicopters on "training missions" in and around the New Orleans area.
    Memory fails me [I am old and I drink], however about a generation ago, in the last days of Ma Bell, a major telephone company central office in lower Manhattan, supporting six exchanges, was gutted by fire.

    A Western Electric (remember them?) manager in Illinois was loading a switch frame on a truck destined for Los Angeles. He told the driver to go to Los Angeles by way of New York and to call in every few hours. He later said that if he found that that switch was required in NY, better that it not be half way to California. Decisions like that were made all over the Bell System.

    I thought of that on Tuesday when I heard that the hospital ship, Comfort, was in Baltimore "awaiting orders" to sail. She was still there on Friday. She may arrive on the Gulf Coast in another week.

    The victims in the convention center did not get food and water in part because Governor Blanco was more concerned with law and order, "zero tolerance for looters," than with compassion.

    Did I get that wrong?
  6. #686  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Governors have staffs to plan, prepare and coordinate for exactly this sort of thing. Blank Look on her Face was totally unadequate for this task. Couldn't make a decision to save her constituents souls.

    Again a leftist looks to a powerful, central government as the fount of all good. Imagine that.

    how much money is the vaunted DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY getting to prepare us for national disasters ??

    what are they there for, if not for a catastrophe ??

    As our color coding national mood ring ???

    Why did they train A YEAR AGO for a hurricane in Louisiana --
    and learn nothing from it ???

    How could junior on camera have the balls to sit there and say that "nobody could have anticipated the levees failing" ????

    After 9-11 you as much as anyone should OUTRAGED at their performance.

    Why look elsewhere to mitigate their appalling level of incompetence ???

    This fish stank from the head, down ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7. #687  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Governors have staffs to plan, prepare and coordinate for exactly this sort of thing. Blank Look on her Face was totally unadequate for this task. Couldn't make a decision to save her constituents souls.

    Again a leftist looks to a powerful, central government as the fount of all good. Imagine that.
    On Tuesday night she was surrounded by staff, her own, the Feds, and Senator Landrieu. They were all looking to her for leadership and she failed them. Am I the only one who was embarassed for her? What substituted for leadership after that was "40000 boots on the ground" and "zero tolerance for looters." And Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
  8. #688  
    Looting is the first sign of societal decay. Unchecked, the next step was Lord of the Fliesville. Who do you think it was shooting at relief workers and volunteers?

    They should have shot the first few dozen of those punks, and left them to rot in the water.
  9. #689  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    how much money is the vaunted DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY getting to prepare us for national disasters ??

    what are they there for, if not for a catastrophe ??

    As our color coding national mood ring ???

    Why did they train A YEAR AGO for a hurricane in Louisiana --
    and learn nothing from it ???

    How could junior on camera have the balls to sit there and say that "nobody could have anticipated the levees failing" ????

    After 9-11 you as much as anyone should OUTRAGED at their performance.

    Why look elsewhere to mitigate their appalling level of incompetence ???

    This fish stank from the head, down ...
    Everybody should have anticipated the levees failing. Especially the people of New Orleans.

    It is "unforyunate" that so many of those citizens had been inculcated in the doctrine of governmental dependence, where their lords and masters know so much better than they. Terribly unfortunate that so many blacks and minorities are leaving the plantation.

    It's all about the power for you, isn't it?
  10. #690  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    how much money is the vaunted DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY getting to prepare us for national disasters ??

    what are they there for, if not for a catastrophe ??

    As our color coding national mood ring ???

    Why did they train A YEAR AGO for a hurricane in Louisiana --
    and learn nothing from it ???

    How could junior on camera have the balls to sit there and say that "nobody could have anticipated the levees failing" ????

    After 9-11 you as much as anyone should OUTRAGED at their performance.

    Why look elsewhere to mitigate their appalling level of incompetence ???

    This fish stank from the head, down ...
    The Feds major failing was assuming even the remotest level of competence from the city of NO and the state of LA.
  11. #691  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Looting is the first sign of societal decay. Unchecked, the next step was Lord of the Fliesville. Who do you think it was shooting at relief workers and volunteers?

    They should have shot the first few dozen of those punks, and left them to rot in the water.
    Perhaps. Perhaps those were the ones who were stealing the diapers. I am glad that I was not there and did not have a gun.
  12. #692  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Everybody should have anticipated the levees failing. Especially the people of New Orleans.

    It is "unforyunate" that so many of those citizens had been inculcated in the doctrine of governmental dependence, where their lords and masters know so much better than they. Terribly unfortunate that so many blacks and minorities are leaving the plantation.

    It's all about the power for you, isn't it?
    1911sforever -- you did NOT address my post [edit: left out the NOT]

    but if I am to understand yours, are you advocating the elimination of the armed forces, and the creation of a volunteer militia ??

    Would you also argue for a citizens constabulary to replace the disbanded police forces ??

    (are you are a closet anarchist ???)
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/03/2005 at 10:20 PM. Reason: left out: you did NOT address my post
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  13. #693  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Everything that occurred at the superdome and the convention center is inexcusable.
    Amen
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Setup by the National Guard as safe havens, they had practically no water or food, and sanitation became almost immediately unusable. And though conditions there quickly became lethally noxious, survivors were still continually instructed to mass there. For nearly 6 days, americans -- largely poor and black americans -- effectively were abandoned.
    Not to pick nits... but the "safe havens" at the Superdome and Convention Center were not set up by the National Guard. They were set up and (entirely inadequately) supplied by the local government of the city of New Orleans.

    I'm not normally a "political poster", but I've had my fill of cheap shots and outright slander regarding how the feds have responded to this disaster.

    While everyone would obviously prefer that it hadn't taken 3 days...

    (As an aside - I do mean 3 days, not the 5 or even 6 I'm constantly hearing in the press. My understanding of the timeline is that the levees did not fail until Tuesday and it was not at all clear that a tragedy was unfolding until later that day. If we're to condemn the state and local officials for not mobilizing the National Guard quickly enough, let's at least not use hyperbole to make our point.)

    ...let's remember a couple of things: A given state's National Guard units report to their state's governor - not to the federal government. The federal government can't tell any state's National Guard to do anything without the state first relinquishing control. My understanding is that the governor of Louisiana did not request additional deployments (beyond the 3500 she'd originally deployed) until after the levees had been breached and it was clear the damage was irrepairable. Once given a mission, a force of thousands of troops can't just saddle up, jump in some humvees, and ride into town. Especially given that they certainly seemed likely to get shot at and had the additional (and certainly unanticipated) planning duty of force protection. In this country we are (rightfully, IMHO) wary of the federal government deploying military force on our own territory. Remember, those troops were sent in with orders to shoot to kill (American citizens!) in order to restore order.

    All those convoys we've seen roll into N.O. since yesterday were planned, marshalled, staged and deployed in 3 days. THREE DAYS. Part of the first wave on Friday was a fire truck from San Diego, for crying out loud. I'm certainly no expert, so I'd love for some critic of the fed's response to explain exactly how in the he** they could have responded any faster to the disaster they were presented with - with the resources we all have now seen brought to bear.

    So, yes, to have gotten what is now pouring into N.O. back on Tuesday (as I've heard so many reporters snipe) would have been wonderful - wonderful but possible only in an imaginary world where everyone from local and state to federal officials not only do everything exactly right - but also have an otherworldly ability no know what is going to happen before it actually does and further, magical powers to make troops and materiel appear out of thin air.

    There are all sorts of reasons why most (but not all...) of the folks suffering in New Orleans are poor and black. That it is so is tragic. That it is so, however, has nothing at all to do with the speed of the federal response.

    The demagoguery and race-baiting going on regarding this is a disgrace. If it continues those engaging in it risk alienating the majority of the country (the Bush voters, yes - you must accept that though stupid, we are the majority... ). The unintended consequences of that could be a further tragedy.
  14. #694  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Everybody should have anticipated the levees failing. Especially the people of New Orleans.
    "We are facing a storm that most of us have long feared," Mayor Ray Nagin said in ordering the mandatory evacuation for his city of 485,000 people, surrounded by suburbs of a million more. "The storm surge will most likely topple our levee system."

    His mandatory evacuation order was issued Sunday, while Katrina was still spinning over the Gulf of Mexico.

    Not only should this have been anticipated... it was.
  15. #695  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    ......The demagoguery and race-baiting going on regarding this is a disgrace. If it continues those engaging in it risk alienating the majority of the country (the Bush voters, yes - you must accept that though stupid, we are the majority... ). The unintended consequences of that could be a further tragedy.
    Perhaps you did not intend for that to sound as ominous and threatening as it does. However, you can be sure that we all understand the danger of angering The Man. We understand that the only thing that stands between us and the majority is the Constitution, that it is fragile, and that no majority, left or right, since the founding has subscribed to it.
  16. #696  
    phurth -- the superdome & convention center were set up under the supervision of the National Guard. They were the ones controling those locations as people who could not evacuate the city arrived there sunday night. They were the ones bragging about supplies available, about how everyone was searched for weapons before they'd be allowed to enter.

    ANY major city -- (even NYC, which is immeasurably wealthy when compared to NO) -- could never have dealt with a catastrophe that STARTED with an UNPRECEDENTED EVACUATION ORDER.

    As it was NYC was brought to its knees by an event that "only" collapsed several buildings downtown.

    In response we collectively adopted NYC as if it were our home town and gave them additional billions. I love NY -- but N.O. aint no NY.

    NYC has some of the best people anywhere -- arrogant self confident primadonnas -- who have the knowledge and self-confidence to handle new problems and changed circumstances.

    That does not describe the Dept of Homeland Security (DHS) -- which was a pathetic big talking pssy joke -- or N.O.


    I have video news reports of truckers loaded and ready MONDAY to travel to NO -- but they were stopped by DHS. Bottlers ready with water stopped by DHS. People with boats stopped by DHS.

    junior has been able to order state National Guard to die in Iraq, he's been able to transfer National Guard planes against the wishes of state governors. To pretend that he and FEMA were incompetent because they were clueless without the guidance of state officials who had no experience in this sort of thing is delusional. The responsibility is with junior-- and sadly it will take more than a few caastrophes for those drinking the Kool-Aid to figure it out.

    As you write -- for 2-3 days news reports talked excitely about the storm of the century bearing down on New Orleans. The CATEGORY FIVE STORM headed straight for N.O. !!!. How the city had ordered an unprecedented evacuation because a categoory 5 storm would likely swamp the levee and flood the city for 6 months.

    Perhaps for you it is completely understandable with that much warning that FEMA was unprepared, why junior can say with a straight face that the levees failing was a total surprise, why its taken 5-6 days to come to the aid of stranded families...
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/03/2005 at 10:25 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #697  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Perhaps you did not intend for that to sound as ominous and threatening as it does.
    No... of course not. All I meant to say was that if millions of Americans feel they are painted as racists because they happen to stand with a President who "hates blacks" (as was said on TV last night at a benefit concert ), don't be surprised if they're not as generous with donations as they might otherwise be.
  18. #698  
    Saturday, September 03, 2005
    By Ann Rodgers, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

    "......The Homeland Security Department has requested and continues to request that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans," said Renita Hosler, spokeswoman for the Red Cross.

    "Right now access is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities. We have been at the table every single day [asking for access]. We cannot get into New Orleans against their orders......."

    Remember the power of ellipsis to distort; read the article for yourself.
  19. #699  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Saturday, September 03, 2005
    By Ann Rodgers, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

    "......The Homeland Security Department has requested and continues to request that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans," said Renita Hosler, spokeswoman for the Red Cross.

    "Right now access is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities. We have been at the table every single day [asking for access]. We cannot get into New Orleans against their orders......."

    Remember the power of ellipsis to distort; read the article for yourself.
    Yes. Maureen Dowd is a master of the ellipsis.
  20. #700  
    Might this be because the Red Cross doesn't pack firearms, that they would present a soft target to the domestic terrorists we have running around down there?

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