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  1. #521  
    5 days in and supplies are finally NOW arriving at the convention center / superdome
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  2. #522  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    combined with shallow draft long boats, powered rafts -- heck even boats with oars --
    We must be missing something - it's too easy of a solution. Maybe the bridge you can see from the convention ctr collapsed and is blocking the way from the North??? Don't know.
  3. cardio's Avatar
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    #523  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I haven't seen those stories of organized large scale water evacuations.

    if being shot at is a factor, than helicoppters are much more vulnerable to be shot down etc.

    I'm still hearing reports of stranded people without water.

    But I have also seen trucks arriving with food and water to help people in MS.

    Everyone should be helped -- but if I were stuck without water far from the superdome, with a dying child beside me -- I might think my priority was a little more significant.

    Clean fresh water delivery and evacuation -- everything else is long past secondary.
    I have also noticed that MS seems to be pulling together faster than NO. I do not know if they had better plans to deal with hurricanes or not, but I am sure it easier and quicker to get vehicles into MS without flood waters than it is to NO under water. We could also ask why are'nt the media taking water in with them when they report, and putting down the camera and helping?
    My guess is that they are we just do not see it on camera.
  4. #524  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I have also noticed that MS seems to be pulling together faster than NO. I do not know if they had better plans to deal with hurricanes or not, but I am sure it easier and quicker to get vehicles into MS without flood waters than it is to NO under water. We could also ask why are'nt the media taking water in with them when they report, and putting down the camera and helping?
    My guess is that they are we just do not see it on camera.
    They probably handed out the few cases they brought in the first hour they were there. Hell Shepard Smith actually looked human last night as opposed to the 'wax museum' look he normally portrays.
  5. #525  
    And I feel my response regarding class warfare was integral to the discussion. Whether or not "leftist" class warfare is a component of the circumstances in NO can be up for separate discussion.

    Closing the chapter would be simply for the purpose of not hijacking this thread. If you want to talk about class warfare then either a) start a new thread or b) find an ongoing one.

    You should know better than to assume. And I'm simply following forum etiquette here so as to avoid these types of unnecessary ad hominem engagements.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Yes. And the context you offered was that of leftist classwarfare. Someone called you on it, and now you want to "close this chapter." Speaking of rote responses...
  6. #526  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    The man is a Chief Executive Officer. He makes decisions based upon what his staff tells him. He is not a micro-policy wonk. He does not respond to media bleatings. He is not snap-shot poll driven. I think he was ill-served, and heads need to roll, starting with Chertoff.

    As far as paitence, well, we had eight years of tears and quivering lower lips, power hugs and apologies. Somehow the NO levees weren't strengthened then, either.
    I certainly hope that heads will roll, even if only by quiet resignation, not to fix blame but to fix the problem. If no one is accountable, then no one performs. (Think Haldeman and Ehrlichman. Nixon did not do them a favor by refusing to fire them. )
    Last edited by whmurray; 09/02/2005 at 12:08 PM.
  7. #527  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I have also noticed that MS seems to be pulling together faster than NO. I do not know if they had better plans to deal with hurricanes or not, but I am sure it easier and quicker to get vehicles into MS without flood waters than it is to NO under water. We could also ask why are'nt the media taking water in with them when they report, and putting down the camera and helping?
    My guess is that they are we just do not see it on camera.

    I've seen where crews have given there water to desperate survivors, and have given them transport on their boats -- but in truth their role is to be our (and CLEARLY ALSO the govt's) eyes to show us what is happening -- without their persistence and courage we would not know how horribly everything is being done -- and there would not have been the pressure to make it right.

    Lets also recognize the superhuman logistics required to support a crew and get out live video from a disaster zone like NO.

    It ain't easy, and it ain't cheap. And its not a comfortable working environment -- its hot, humid, you're wet -- trying to keep your gear dry -- people are begging for help -- and you can't possibly help them all ...
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  8. #528  
    This is a very long thread. I have not read everything. But, I can't help but wonder why NO citizens, black americans, seem to be getting the pushoff? Maybe someone sees it from a different view.
  9. #529  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    We must be missing something - it's too easy of a solution. Maybe the bridge you can see from the convention ctr collapsed and is blocking the way from the North??? Don't know.

    the easy (and likely) explanation is incompetence.

    Unable to easily execute a "by the book" response, they are not mentally flexible enough to find less high tech solutions.

    (also our best military people and equipment is many miles from New Orleans -- and very differently occupied.)
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  10. #530  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    If only Bush had signed the Kyoto Accord!
    Is that a joke? Do you even know what that is?
  11. #531  
    I'm listening to Jesse Jackson rag on Bush about the disaster. Says it is him to blame b/c of cutting funds to build a better levee, the Iraq War. Also, says leaving Bush Sr and Clinton in charge to raise funds is wrong and he should of put an African American in charge. He said it may have been different if it was an affluent white population.

    He loves attention. He may be as he says, "down with dope and up with hope", but my rhyme for him is "He's not a uniter, he is a divider."
  12. #532  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam-i-am
    Is that a joke? Do you even know what that is?
    it's a joke
  13. #533  
    Quote Originally Posted by illustreous
    Circumstances being equal, I'm quite certain that if Beverly Hills were hit by a cat 5, the response would have been far different.
    Hmm how bout Texas?


  14. #534  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    Hmm how bout Texas?
    an easier and fairer comparison is the last really big hurricane to hit -- last year in Florida in the months prior to the election.

    All stops were pulled out on that -- almost ANY request for FEMA help was practically delivered immediately.

    More help is effectively getting to Mississippi than New Orleans.

    But I'm just a cynical aging lefty -- what do I know ...
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  15. #535  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    5-6 days into this and I'm still watching on CNN as HUNDREDS are being rescued by helicopter from rooftops !

    why are there no small boats with outboard motors that could have gone house to house and gathered up survivors MUCH more efficiently
    Because some idiots where shooting at the boasts. One of the shows I was listening to yesterday (MSNBC, CNN, or FOX News) said that they were the ONLY boat out on the water because several neigherhoods were shooting at any boat that came their way to help save those that are stranded.

    IT IS THE SMALL NUMBER OF THUGS that is putting so many people's lives in danger. Without the extra forces needed to restore the law there, there is the scum of the society that are preventing the innocent and the near death victims from being reached......all probably because they want to keep the 20 pair of Nikes they looted 2 days ago!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    if being shot at is a factor, than helicoppters are much more vulnerable to be shot down etc.
    Because a vast majority of the boats are citizens who also have to think of their families. Most civilians do not have helicopters. The helicopters are gov driven, which their duty and job is deal with those situations and continue on.....no matter how much slower it is with only helicopters and no boats.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 09/02/2005 at 12:42 PM.
  16. #536  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I have seen the helicopters uload water on CNN and on Fox. It is not as sensational as victims being lifted off the roof. I have also seen and heard stories of boaters removing victims again though not as sensational so not as newsworthy. Remember, rescuers are also being shot at, that would definately make someone think twice.

    Oh, the storm hit Monday so at best we are starting the 5th day not 5-6 days into it.
    The levees didnt break until Tuesday, which is when the trouble really began.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  17. cardio's Avatar
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    #537  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    the easy (and likely) explanation is incompetence.

    Unable to easily execute a "by the book" response, they are not mentally flexible enough to find less high tech solutions.

    (also our best military people and equipment is many miles from New Orleans -- and very differently occupied.)
    I respectfully disagree with our best military people and equipment is many miles......

    Keesler Air Force Base is located in Biloxi MS. Pensacola Naval Air Station is in Pensacola FL. etc. hence our best is right there alongside trying to dig themselves out also.

    As far as incompetence, I have stated several times I agree, the difference is I hold local level most responsible for failure to plan. Local and state for failure to evacuate, Local, state and now federal for the amount of time to respond.
  18. #538  
    Russell Honore, the second hero of New Orleans. Honore for President.

    Is it time to start the collection for his statue? Should we move Andrew Jackson to Audubon Park and rename the square in French Quarter?

    (Oh, and George W. Bush was also there.)
  19. #539  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Because some idiots where shooting at the boasts. One of the shows I was listening to yesterday (MSNBC, CNN, or FOX News) said that they were the ONLY boat out on the water because several neigherhoods were shooting at any boat that came their way to help save those that are stranded.

    IT IS THE SMALL NUMBER OF THUGS that is putting so many people's lives in danger. Without the extra forces needed to restore the law there, there is the scum of the society that are preventing the innocent and the near death victims from being reached......all probably because they want to keep the 20 pair of Nikes they looted 2 days ago!!!!

    Network newscasts and media coverage in the major newspapers are not reflecting what you are describing --

    if that really is the concern, hellicopters are the most vulnerable.

    if gunshots were fired at boats, its unlikely to have been about Nikes -- but more likely because someone is desperate to be saved, and angry that someone else was taken first.
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  20. #540  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    an easier and fairer comparison is the last really big hurricane to hit -- last year in Florida in the months prior to the election.

    All stops were pulled out on that -- almost ANY request for FEMA help was practically delivered immediately.

    More help is effectively getting to Mississippi than New Orleans.

    But I'm just a cynical aging lefty -- what do I know ...
    I've said this previously - our Florida National Guard was in place throughout Florida. I live nearby Camp Blanding where they had mass amounts of supplies ready (hurricane didn't hit NE Fla) but in the end weren't needed. Has nothing to do with what state was hit, it has to do with how the local and state govt responds to it. Florida was more prepared than Louisana the way I see it.

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