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  1. #501  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Cat 5 Hurricane plan for New Orleans was 25 years away

    You can read the story in the Army Corp of Engineers magazine from last year.

    Story
    From that article:

    "The new convention center or Saints stadium could
    be constructed to these standards, with electrical
    generators and other emergency equipment built in at a
    relatively small initial cost. Including the upgraded
    levees, we’re talking maybe $2 billion for a system
    that would protect the city
    ."

    For the comparison: $2 billion is spent in about three weeks for a project in some other place of this world.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  2. #502  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    There were Swiss medics and rescue workers in Aceh on the 28th. Believe me, I was there when the calls were made to make them ready on the 26. Don't forget that Aceh is on the other side of the globe, not in our back yard.
    It took quite a while to get your three helicopters there, and even after the offer, it was the next week.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  3. #503  
    Well stated and I agree with you here. State governments are sovereign and have sufficient authority to respond to a catastrophe such as this. It's mind boggling that a city so susceptible to, literally, wipeout does not even have simple mechanics in place.

    However, this by no means takes the feds off the hook.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    We've had sufficient natural catastrophes, not to mention getting the snot stomped out of us on 9/11, to where this should have been a rote response. The bottom line is that a massive government is a massive bureacracy, where the process IS the product. Individuals, neighborhoods, municipalities and states should be self-sufficient for AT LEAST 7 days in these circumstances. The NO government and state of LA really, REALLY dropped the ball here.
  4. #504  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    for years experts have warned that NO would be hit by a big hurricane -- and that a cat 4-5 could breech the levee -- causing massive loss of life and property.

    Federal funding was cut for the reenforcement and raising of these levees. (these are EXPENSIVE projects. A poor local district wasn't able to pay for it itself.
    If you take the time to read the information, as far back as 1977, environmental groups have been fighting against the changes. The current study was a 5 year plan, with 15-20 years for construction.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  5. #505  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I think there are tens of thousands of people dead in New Orleans - and the potential over the next couple of days of tens of thousands more. Why Bush needs to do another flyover is beyond me.

    I just watched junior getting "briefed".

    pathetic PRPRPR $stunt$.

    Does anyone understand the logistics and cost involved in getting POTUS anywhere ?? and into this disaster area in particular ??

    their priority is to stop people from holding him and those appointed by him responsible for the catastrophic response to this catastrophe.

    Flame me all you want -- tis the truth ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  6. #506  
    Right, and underlying (and burning) question was "why the relief wasn't there"

    I offered viewpoints within context. You contaminated them with an ad hominem and irrelevant parallels. Lets close this chapter.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    The topic at hand was hurricane relief. You are the one that injected Marxist poison.
  7. #507  
    Quote Originally Posted by illustreous
    Well stated and I agree with you here. State governments are sovereign and have sufficient authority to respond to a catastrophe such as this. It's mind boggling that a city so susceptible to, literally, wipeout does not even have simple mechanics in place.

    However, this by no means takes the feds off the hook.
    Agreed. If over the weekend the situation isn't dramatically improved I'll REALLY be screaming about the Federal response.
  8. #508  
    Quote Originally Posted by illustreous
    Right, and underlying (and burning) question was "why the relief wasn't there"

    I offered viewpoints within context. You contaminated them with an ad hominem and irrelevant parallels. Lets close this chapter.
    Yes. And the context you offered was that of leftist classwarfare. Someone called you on it, and now you want to "close this chapter." Speaking of rote responses...
  9. #509  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    It took quite a while to get your three helicopters there, and even after the offer, it was the next week.
    What's the point of your post? In Switzerland, those heavy-duty helicopters would have been on the scene within an hour if needed. In fact, they were two weeks ago when Switzerland suffered once-in-300-years rainfall and massive flooding with $2 billion of damages.

    But again, what does this have to do with this thread, why do you bring those helicopters up (in fact, for the second time already, the first time about 500 post ago)?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  10. #510  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    What's the point of your post? In Switzerland, those heavy-duty helicopters would have been on the scene within an hour if needed. In fact, they were two weeks ago when Switzerland suffered once-in-300-years rainfall and massive flooding with $2 billion of damages.

    But again, what does this have to do with this thread, why do you bring those helicopters up (in fact, for the second time already, the first time about 500 post ago)?
    Seems you guys have trouble moving equipment around. "An emergency organisation which takes a week to mobilize is useless for obvious reasons." Your words.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. #511  
    5-6 days into this and I'm still watching on CNN as HUNDREDS are being rescued by helicopter from rooftops !

    why are there no small boats with outboard motors that could have gone house to house and gathered up survivors MUCH more efficiently

    helicopters are an emergency life saving vehicle that can only get a few at a time, and then must return to base, release passengers, refuel etc.

    and why am I not seeing these same helicopters delivering drinking water etc ???
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. cardio's Avatar
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    #512  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    5-6 days into this and I'm still watching on CNN as HUNDREDS are being rescued by helicopter from rooftops !

    why are there no small boats with outboard motors that could have gone house to house and gathered up survivors MUCH more efficiently

    helicopters are an emergency life saving vehicle that can only get a few at a time, and then must return to base, release passengers, refuel etc.

    and why am I not seeing these same helicopters delivering drinking water etc ???
    I have seen the helicopters uload water on CNN and on Fox. It is not as sensational as victims being lifted off the roof. I have also seen and heard stories of boaters removing victims again though not as sensational so not as newsworthy. Remember, rescuers are also being shot at, that would definately make someone think twice.

    Oh, the storm hit Monday so at best we are starting the 5th day not 5-6 days into it.
  13. #513  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    One of the problems with media coverage, as heroic as it has been, is that one cannot always follow a story to its end. During most of yesterday we saw the plight of the victims of Katrina at the NO Convention Center. As of dark, there was still no food, water, or buses. Now it is Friday and it is difficult to find out what happened to those people.
    Not to worry. Both President Bush and food and water are almost there.
  14. #514  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Not to worry. Both President Bush and food and water are almost there.
    lol, you keep quoting yourself
  15. #515  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    lol, you keep quoting yourself
    As I said in a previous post and to quote myself, "you keep quoting yourself".
  16. #516  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I have seen the helicopters uload water on CNN and on Fox. It is not as sensational as victims being lifted off the roof. I have also seen and heard stories of boaters removing victims again though not as sensational so not as newsworthy. Remember, rescuers are also being shot at, that would definately make someone think twice.
    I haven't seen those stories of organized large scale water evacuations.

    if being shot at is a factor, than helicoppters are much more vulnerable to be shot down etc.

    I'm still hearing reports of stranded people without water.

    But I have also seen trucks arriving with food and water to help people in MS.

    Everyone should be helped -- but if I were stuck without water far from the superdome, with a dying child beside me -- I might think my priority was a little more significant.

    Clean fresh water delivery and evacuation -- everything else is long past secondary.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #517  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I haven't seen those stories of organized large scale water evacuations.
    If the Mississippi River isn't overflowing, why hasn't a huge barge come from the North, say Memphis to pick up thousands at a time?
  18. #518  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    What's the point of your post? In Switzerland, those heavy-duty helicopters would have been on the scene within an hour if needed. In fact, they were two weeks ago when Switzerland suffered once-in-300-years rainfall and massive flooding with $2 billion of damages.

    But again, what does this have to do with this thread, why do you bring those helicopters up (in fact, for the second time already, the first time about 500 post ago)?
    The pont of clairegrrl's posts is, that she proves that you are biased, and plain wrong and many occassions.
  19. #519  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    If the Mississippi River isn't overflowing, why hasn't a huge barge come from the North, say Memphis to pick up thousands at a time?

    combined with shallow draft long boats, powered rafts -- heck even boats with oars --
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  20. cardio's Avatar
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    #520  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    If the Mississippi River isn't overflowing, why hasn't a huge barge come from the North, say Memphis to pick up thousands at a time?
    Great thought

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