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  1. #441  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    What the sam hell is going on here!
    Works for me, Sam.
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  2. #442  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    What the sam hell is going on here!
    New Orleans Mayor Fumes Over Slow Reponse 43 minutes ago



    A day before President Bush headed to the hurricane-ravaged South, Mayor Ray Nagin lashed out at federal officials, telling a local radio station "they don't have a clue what's going on down here."

    Federal officials expressed sympathy but quickly defended themselves, saying they, too, were overwhelmed by the catastrophe that hit the Gulf Coast region on Monday.

    Nagin's interview Thursday night on WWL radio came as President Bush planned to visit Gulf Coast communities battered by Hurricane Katrina, a visit aimed at alleviating criticism that he engineered a too-little, too-late response.

    Bush viewed the damage while flying over the region Wednesday en route to Washington after cutting short his Texas vacation by two days.

    "They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn — excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed," Nagin said.

    Nagin said he told Bush in a recent conversation that "we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice ... I have been all around this city and that I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we are outmanned in just about every respect."

    In an interview Friday on NBC's "Today," Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown stood behind the massive federal relief effort that's under way.

    "I understand the mayor's frustration. ... We have been having a continuous flow of commodities into the Superdome, there were five trucks arriving last night to feed well over 50,000 people.

    "We're also diverting supplies to the convention center which I learned about yesterday and that area. ... This is an absolutely catastrophic disaster," he said.

    Gov. Kathleen Blanco, who like Nagin is a Democrat, was less confrontational than the mayor.

    "When the system goes down, this is pretty much what you get," she said on CBS' "The Early Show." "We don't get into the blame game. We just work with what we got."
  3. NRG
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    #443  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Uhh, no it's not. There is complete devastation.
    Agreed there is complete devastation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATM
    The order to bring in every guarsmand from the seven states I listed should of happened Monday. It hasn't.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATM
    You don't need a helicopter over the city to see the devastation.
    I think to grab the whole scope of it you would need to be there in person. Kinda like looking at the Sears Tower on T.V., sure it looks big, but when you see it in person you are like HOLY CRAP! It doesn't really matter though, he is heading there today.
  4. #444  
    there are dozens if not hundreds of journalists on the ground bravely showing what is actually going on

    For example Govt officials, FEMA, brag about all they have done feeding, bringing water to the people still at the convention center etc. in NO

    JOurnalists (including Ted Koppel on Nightline) whose colleques are THERE -- must then ask these official are they delussional, are they lying to themselves, are they THAT uninformed ??
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  5. #445  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    What the sam hell is going on here!
    No problem here
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  6. #446  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    I get the feeling that his authority has been usurped by the state and federal agencies. His outburst yesterday seemed to be filled with the same level of frustration that his residents have.

    The comments coming from him and other NO officials all contain a bit of contempt, especially towards the federal agencies. Even the governor seems a bit perturbed.
    Not so much usurped as overwhelmed. At his most powerful he did not have the resources to deal with this. As he says, he needs help.
  7. NRG
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    #447  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    New Orleans Mayor Fumes Over Slow Reponse 43 minutes ago



    A day before President Bush headed to the hurricane-ravaged South, Mayor Ray Nagin lashed out at federal officials, telling a local radio station "they don't have a clue what's going on down here."

    Federal officials expressed sympathy but quickly defended themselves, saying they, too, were overwhelmed by the catastrophe that hit the Gulf Coast region on Monday.

    Nagin's interview Thursday night on WWL radio came as President Bush planned to visit Gulf Coast communities battered by Hurricane Katrina, a visit aimed at alleviating criticism that he engineered a too-little, too-late response.

    Bush viewed the damage while flying over the region Wednesday en route to Washington after cutting short his Texas vacation by two days.

    "They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn — excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed," Nagin said.

    Nagin said he told Bush in a recent conversation that "we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice ... I have been all around this city and that I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we are outmanned in just about every respect."

    In an interview Friday on NBC's "Today," Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown stood behind the massive federal relief effort that's under way.

    "I understand the mayor's frustration. ... We have been having a continuous flow of commodities into the Superdome, there were five trucks arriving last night to feed well over 50,000 people.

    "We're also diverting supplies to the convention center which I learned about yesterday and that area. ... This is an absolutely catastrophic disaster," he said.

    Gov. Kathleen Blanco, who like Nagin is a Democrat, was less confrontational than the mayor.

    "When the system goes down, this is pretty much what you get," she said on CBS' "The Early Show." "We don't get into the blame game. We just work with what we got."
    Thanks, ATM. I have no idea why it (link) was/is not working for me.
  8. #448  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    One of the problems with media coverage, as heroic as it has been, is that one cannot always follow a story to its end. During most of yesterday we saw the plight of the victims of Katrina at the NO Convention Center. As of dark, there was still no food, water, or buses. Now it is Friday and it is difficult to find out what happened to those people.
    President Bush was just on TV and seemed to say that the survivors at the convention center are still waiting. Not to worry; help is "on the way."
  9. #449  
    NRG - if I were to say your house is on fire, would you have to see it first or would you call 911?
  10. #450  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    President Bush was just on TV and seemed to say that the survivors at the convention center are still waiting. Not to worry; help is "on the way."
    He also thanked a lot of people for their hard work, but said the results were "unacceptable".
  11. #451  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    We all assume that our government will be there to protect us and help us out in times like this -- but it's really just every man for themselves. They've failed at every level.
    DING! DING! DING! DING!

    Thus it has always been and thus it shall ever be. The only guy you can count on to save your **** in situations like this is the guy you looked at in the mirror this morning. (I used to say "shaved your face", but there's no telling. I don't use "brushed your teeth" because some of our readers are European
  12. #452  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    He also thanked a lot of people for their hard work, but said the results were "unacceptable".
    I ask again: "Are we seeing the genuine limits of power, an absence of vision, a failure of good intentions, an indifferent, not to say grudging, response, or are we seeing the disintegration of our society?"
  13. NRG
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    #453  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    NRG - if I were to say your house is on fire, would you have to see it first or would you call 911?
    I understand what you are saying, don't think I don't. Yes you pobably don't need to see the whole thing to call the guard up or whatever help you can muster. But at the same time you can not grab the concept of how bad it really is without getting a good look at it. Remember, there is not just NO, there is Biloxi, Gulf Shores, Bay St. Louis, etc.. Look, I agree with you to a certain point. We both agree they need to get more going, we both agree the area is hit, and hit hard. We both agree the first wave of responses were s***. We just disagree on how to grab the whole picture. You think he, or anyone for that matter can grasp the whole scope of it via TV, I think you need to see it in person. :shrug:
  14. #454  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    I ask again: "Are we seeing the genuine limits of power, an absence of vision, a failure of good intentions, an indifferent, not to say grudging, response, or are we seeing the disintegration of our society?"
    I think the federal level thinks the state and local level was gonna take care of things and vice versa.

    I am miffed at the response. I know in Florida last year, Guardsman in North Florida were prepared for the worse with caravans of help ready to go, but we never had a direct hit of devastation.
  15. #455  
    Survivors Wait as Disaster Builds

    L.A. Times

    WASHINGTON — When disaster strikes in the United States, Americans expect a full-throttle response from the government, with whatever it takes to help to the victims — food, water, rescue teams, emergency medical supplies, helicopters, and National Guard soldiers to protect property and life. And the response is expected to be fast and efficient.

    That's not how it worked out this time.

    ...a crowd of refugees, including children, stranded without adequate food, water or medical attention at New Orleans' downtown convention center, even though it had been designated a shelter after the Superdome filled up. When Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff was asked on National Public Radio why no help had been sent, he said he was unaware of the problem.

    FEMA was using trucks and buses — not airplanes — to transport many of its highly trained units to the New Orleans area

    ...How could such problems bedevil an area long identified as a disaster waiting to happen? Why were federal, state and local officials surprised by the flooding when experts had repeatedly pinpointed issues?

    ...the suffering was not in the storied precincts of Bourbon Street, the Latin Quarter or the Garden District, but in predominantly black, working-poor neighborhoods that New Orleans tourists seldom see.

    It's not as though no one expected the disaster. For years, federal and other studies had zeroed in on New Orleans as one of the nation's most vulnerable areas to a natural disaster — a major city lying below sea level, sandwiched between Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River, in the heart of hurricane country. As recently as November, one expert laid out a disaster scenario that read like a script for Katrina.

    ...the president and his chief spokesman struck a defensive tone in the face of criticism that the relief efforts had been too slow and that federal funds had been cut back for New Orleans flood control in recent years. Bush and White House spokesman Scott McClellan said it was not the time to engage in "politics" or "finger-pointing."

    ...though Katrina had been closely tracked on its way to the Gulf Coast, the administration had not used the time to prepare adequately. They also complained that the Bush White House had repeatedly slashed congressional efforts to boost funding for levee work and other flood control upgrades.

    ...Landrieu (D-La.) told her colleagues on the Senate floor a year ago that it was crucial to spend more government money to shore up the levees at New Orleans. "I hate to say it," she said. "It's going to take a loss of hundreds of thousands of lives on the Gulf Coast to make this country wake up and realize what we are underinvesting in."

    ... late last summer, in the midst of a hard-fought presidential campaign in which Florida was pivotal, FEMA received glowing marks from Florida officials for responding quickly to hurricanes there.

    ...measures that Chertoff and other administration officials are putting together now should have been "in motion three to four days before the storm hit," Florida disaster researcher Olson said, especially in light of the fact that the New Orleans' vulnerability to a hurricane and a consequent flood had been carefully studied.

    ..."They did anticipate breaching of the levees, that the pumps wouldn't work," said Natural Hazards Center Director Kathleen Tierney. Louisiana and New Orleans "couldn't get the federal assistance they needed. They knew they were living on a time bomb."
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  16. #456  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I understand what you are saying, don't think I don't. Yes you pobably don't need to see the whole thing to call the guard up or whatever help you can muster. But at the same time you can not grab the concept of how bad it really is without getting a good look at it. Remember, there is not just NO, there is Biloxi, Gulf Shores, Bay St. Louis, etc.. Look, I agree with you to a certain point. We both agree they need to get more going, we both agree the area is hit, and hit hard. We both agree the first wave of responses were s***. We just disagree on how to grab the whole picture. You think he, or anyone for that matter can grasp the whole scope of it via TV, I think you need to see it in person. :shrug:
    I realize the destruction in the smaller towns east of NO, but you have potentially 150,000 people dying, many may have died already in a 30 square mile area within the City of New Orleans.
  17. #457  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I think to grab the whole scope of it you would need to be there in person. Kinda like looking at the Sears Tower on T.V., sure it looks big, but when you see it in person you are like HOLY CRAP! It doesn't really matter though, he is heading there today.
    And you think the president will suddenly discover that yes, it is bad, and then things will change?

    Presidents and the like visiting the sites of devastation don't do it to get an overview, but to show that they are there and to give confidence to the people.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  18. #458  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    I ask again: "Are we seeing the genuine limits of power, an absence of vision, a failure of good intentions, an indifferent, not to say grudging, response, or are we seeing the disintegration of our society?"
    When you say this, are you referring to the mayor and governor
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  19. NRG
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    #459  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I realize the destruction in the smaller towns east of NO, but you have potentially 150,000 people dying, many may have died already in a 30 square mile area within the City of New Orleans.
    We are talking about the same destanation, we are just conflicted about how to get there.
  20. #460  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    DING! DING! DING! DING!

    Thus it has always been and thus it shall ever be. The only guy you can count on to save your **** in situations like this is the guy you looked at in the mirror this morning. (I used to say "shaved your face", but there's no telling. I don't use "brushed your teeth" because some of our readers are European
    That is the definition of anarchy or chaos. The benefits of cooperation and collaboration that we call civilization are sufficiently valuable that we should be willing to go to the wall for it before we decide "every man for himself."

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