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  1. #401  
    Where is the NO Mayor holed up? I think his political career is finished. I've seen several firefighters, police and doctors interviewed and the one common problem they keep mentioning is leadership. wtf is this guy doing? He should be with his citizens at the Super Dome & convention center w/a megaphone letting people know what's going on.
  2. #402  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Where is the NO Mayor holed up? I think his political career is finished. I've seen several firefighters, police and doctors interviewed and the one common problem they keep mentioning is leadership. wtf is this guy doing? He should be with his citizens at the Super Dome & convention center w/a megaphone letting people know what's going on.
    I think hes been on CNN crying about lack of communications
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  3. #403  
    It is 10pm. Thursday is almost gone. Watching Joe Scarborough from Biloxi. No food and water there. Can it possibly be that there is still no food and water in the convention center?

    40K troops are promised. That is one third of the number of troops in Iraq. That is a formula for a slaughter. Food and water, not bullets.

    Joe Scarborough: "This is amateur hour."

    Michele Hofland: "New Orleans sounds like a war zone." "A few helicopters have arrived at the convention center with water." "Twenty thousand people have been forced out of the Superdome into the contaminated water." I cannot tell whether this is good news or bad.

    Senator David Vitter: "We need boots on the ground." "We did not get troops or relief fast enough." Notice the order. "All of the bad news is real."

    Speaker of the House questions the wisdom of re-building New Orleans. Thank God we do not have to wait for his consent.

    Former Mayor, Sydney Barthelmay. "I believe the Mayor and the Governor were over-whelmed." "I cannot tell you how heart broken I am." "I feel more optomistic now. The President has stepped up." Has he, indeed?

    The President and the Governor would have us believe that the reason that there has been no food and water on Thursday is that it is too dangerous for the aid workers. Would it have been too dangerous on Tuesday?
  4. #404  
    Today, Thursday, refugees died for want of food and water because they were too dangerous to be fed. Tomorrow more of them will die in the name of restoring law and order. However, last week they were just ordinary citizens. They were a little blacker, a little poorer, a little more vulnerable than the rest of us but they were as law-abiding as we are. Tomorrow they will die for want of food and water, the absolute minimum that a civilized society owes to its members.

    I will carry to my grave the image of that beautiful little black boy with the tear running down his face. For want of food and water.
  5. #405  
    (CNN) -- Rock 'n' roll pioneer Fats Domino was among the thousands of New Orleans residents plucked from rising floodwaters, his daughter said Thursday.

    Story
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  6. #406  
    LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Rock 'n' roll legend Fats Domino was among the thousands unaccounted for in flooded New Orleans after rebuffing friends' pleas to flee as Hurricane Katrina bore down on the city he celebrated in song, his manager said on Thursday.
  7. #407  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    (CNN) -- Rock 'n' roll pioneer Fats Domino was among the thousands of New Orleans residents plucked from rising floodwaters, his daughter said Thursday.

    Story
  8. #408  
    doesnt fat float
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  9. #409  
    To much gold ?
  10. #410  
    k
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. #411  
  12. #412  
    Here's a list of countries that received U.S. support and aid in the recent past for catastrophic disasters who havenít yet been bothered even to say ďIím sorry this happened.Ē

    Russia
    Iran
    Turkey
    Thailand
    Indonesia
    Sri Lanka
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  13. #413  
    Absolutely the most unbelievable quote of the day -- "This President is never gonna do the right thing. I think somewhere deep down inside him he takes a lot of joy about losing people, if he thinks they vote Democrat or if he thinks they're poor, or if he thinks they're in a blue state, whatever his reasons are not to rescue those people..." -- Air America's Randi Rhodes
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #414  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    What a classic government **** up, from soup to nuts.

    1) The city and state knew this could happen....was GOING to happen one day. Why weren't there warehouses filled with emergency supplies, say for 30,000 for two weeks, located within the city? Why weren't people encouraged to stock five days worth of stuff in their homes? Even people on very limited incomes could manage that.

    2) I know they ran numerous simulations and drills over the years, yet come game day they were paralyzed to inaction. It was like the system was stunned that such a storm, with such consequences, could actually happen.

    3) If the levees were such a critical element, why wasn't heavy engineering equipment prepositioned to deal with a major breech?

    4) Why weren't the National Guards of states outside of the projected path, plus or minus a state a two, fully manned up and ready to launch? I say adjacent states, because it is asking too much of Guard members to abandon their families in the face of such a threat. Within 24 hours of the storm clearing, C-130s should have been dropping relief parcels within the city, maybe on beacons that could have been prepositioned. "In the event of disaster, move to these locations. There are emergency beacons there...help will come soon!" Convoys of MPs, engineers (briding units with heavy equipment), infantry soldiers and medical personnel should have been rolling in.

    5) Why didn't the people of NO have a CLUE as to where to go or what to do? Who the hell was in charge?

    6) Homeland Security has revealed itself as yet another ineffective government bureaucracy with lots of agencies and NO BALLS. At the first image of this thing in the Gulf, there should have been direct liasion with the military:

    Navy, where are your ready flat decks? Norfolk, ya say? Well, load them bad boys up with as many helos as you can and head to the east coast of FLA. Stand by for further orders. Prepare contingencies for supporting sustained relief operations. Get those fresh water condensors fires up. Stand by to receive liaison officers from state, local and federal authorities. Give these people the communications and planning spaces they require. Questions?

    Army: Helicopers and support crews. Here are three contingencies. Plan to support sustained relief operations under OPCON of this headquarters. Give us a list of your fuel and spare parts requirements. Be prepared for further orders.

    Air Force/Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard: I want pictures of the disaster areas within 30 minutes of the storm clearing. All of those cargo aircraft we bought you? Well, configure them for air dropping food, water, and shelter on a "close air support" basis. Stand by to receive coordinates. Stand by to conduct sustained operations.

    Marine Corps: How many amphibious assault vehicles do you guys have handy? Put them on low-boys, along with engineers, infantry and Navy medical people. Start convoying them to this location. Stand by for further orders.

    7) What the hell am I doing in NOVA, in front of a computer? Why aren't me, my rifle and about 1,000 rounds of ammo headed to NO to shoot those murdering, raping SOB's? Someone has to...government at all levels seems incapable. Anyone looting anything other than a food/clothing store should have been SHOT DEAD and left to pollute the water.

    Folks, obviously there is a lot of planning that would have to take place to execute those orders. But it could have, SHOULD have been done. This wasn't a sucker punch like 9/11...we saw this coming and we led with our chin. We've spent hundreds of millions on disaster preparadness exercises, but come game day our leviathan is too heavy to move. What a display of ineptitude. We were ill-served. My heart goes out to the afflicted.

    Edited to add: Coast Guard, keep doing what you're doing. You were the only organization in this whole goat rope that earned your pay.
    Well said dude.. It's astounding how unprepared the city was. They knew it was gonna happen some day, and the plan was basically "if we ever get hit, we'll just wing it"

    live police scanner feed from down there
    http://stfunoob.com/nola/scanner.pls (winamp....... may work in other players, dunno)


  15. #415  
    Well said dude..

    (although if someone like DaThomas said it, he'd be flamed to all hell)

    Because he would have turned it into a Bush bash. What we need here is a total, full on, BIPARTISAN GOVERNMENT BASH.
  16. #416  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    (although if someone like DaThomas said it, he'd be flamed to all hell)
    Wow, I typed the exact same thing -- exact!!!!! word for word with the parentheses and everything...

    but removed it before posting.... cause I'd be called an "inciter" or something..


  17. #417  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    Wow, I typed the exact same thing -- exact!!!!! word for word with the parentheses and everything...

    but removed it before posting.... cause I'd be called an "inciter" or something..
    I cut and paste without using the quote function.
  18. #418  
    I completely agree with 1911sforever on his plan....a pretty darn good one at that. Regardless of how unprepared the city was...why did it take people so long to get in the city? How many government agencies do we have to contribute to situations such as this one and how is it that only the Coast Guard was there doing their job? WTF?!?

    Mayor Nagin definitely should have done his part of the internal preperation, but I don't know if you can say that he's doing any worse of a job than Guliani. I don't remember who compared them...but these two catastrophes aren't similar in any way. Guliani had a couple thousand square feet to deal with as opposed to Nagin's hundreds of square miles. Guliani's disaster was virtually instantaneous...Nagin's is still going on even though this thread alone has racked up well over 200 posts. Guliani could still walk around the majority of his city...Nagin would have to swim or hop on a Boston Wailer. I think the only thing that remains parallel between these 2 situations are that the cell phone calls were overloaded...kinda highlighting the theme of miscommunication.

    As for Hobbes' gun issue, I really don't think your protecting your family by tossin' it in your emergency bag...if anything your endangering them. Just don't show anybody else your water supply.

    Also...you left Blizzards off your list of natural disasters, however, blizzards are prolly the least deadly out of all of those.

    Hurricanes are pretty crappy...but New Orleans will be rebuilt right where it is. For historical reason, economic reason, I mean...people just gravitate toward water and wherever the party is. Nothing's going to change their mind...stubborness is right!

    Knowing that people are going to rebuild there, they're going to be paying for insurance again. Why is it that insurance is in the private sector?? How do the U.S. citizens benefit by contributing to for-profit insurance companies?? Last year the home insurance companies ran outta money, didn't they? And the government had to help them out anyway?? Why not just let the government collect your insurance premiums? I could MAYBE understand health insurance, but it'd take some really good arguments for that debate. Otherwise, I think all insurance should be handled by the government.

    I know people are saying that Bush had no control over this and it's up to the local authorities and FEMA, right? Well, local authorities aside, Bush is currently dismantling FEMA and giving their control to Homeland Security. So...basically Bush is renaming FEMA to Homeland Security and adding some terrorist information in their textbooks. HOO RAY! Bush is saving us all with his wonderful ideas. I'd really like to know more information about stripping FEMA's right to command and control in times like these...because that's just plain silly.

    That's all for today, folks.
  19. #419  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As for Hobbes' gun issue, I really don't think your protecting your family by tossin' it in your emergency bag...if anything your endangering them. Just don't show anybody else your water supply.
    "Just don't show anybody else your water supply" sounds like a pretty naive statement in several scenarios in a disaster situation. Why would I want to flaunt the supplies I have? I would do everything to not be noticed in situations like that. In situations like these you may not have a chance to hide in a corner where no one can see you. But all it takes is someone to catch a glimpse at the wrong time. Or after 4 days to notice that no one in our family is parched to the point of death. Or simply they see each of the members of my family carrying a backpack and want it by any means possible simply to see after the fact what they might have in them.

    Look at NO right now....there are fights, women being raped, homes being looted not caring if anyone is still there or not, shooting policemen over a shopping cart of stuff they looted, shooting at EMS trying to save wounded people, shooting at boats trying to rescue innocent people in need, etc... Is this a type of situation you would want to take a pretty wife and innocent children into without any form of protection if the worst should happen? Even if we had nothing in our possession, there could be a situation for self defense when lawlessness prevails added with desperation driven by days of hunger and thirst. This is by no means, in no way, a matter of looking for fight, but simply a means of a deterrent to protect my family.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 09/02/2005 at 02:17 AM.
  20. #420  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    What a classic government **** up, from soup to nuts.

    1) The city and state knew this could happen....was GOING to happen one day. Why weren't there warehouses filled with emergency supplies, say for 30,000 for two weeks, located within the city? Why weren't people encouraged to stock five days worth of stuff in their homes? Even people on very limited incomes could manage that.

    2) I know they ran numerous simulations and drills over the years, yet come game day they were paralyzed to inaction. It was like the system was stunned that such a storm, with such consequences, could actually happen.

    3) If the levees were such a critical element, why wasn't heavy engineering equipment prepositioned to deal with a major breech?

    4) Why weren't the National Guards of states outside of the projected path, plus or minus a state a two, fully manned up and ready to launch? I say adjacent states, because it is asking too much of Guard members to abandon their families in the face of such a threat. Within 24 hours of the storm clearing, C-130s should have been dropping relief parcels within the city, maybe on beacons that could have been prepositioned. "In the event of disaster, move to these locations. There are emergency beacons there...help will come soon!" Convoys of MPs, engineers (briding units with heavy equipment), infantry soldiers and medical personnel should have been rolling in.

    5) Why didn't the people of NO have a CLUE as to where to go or what to do? Who the hell was in charge?

    6) Homeland Security has revealed itself as yet another ineffective government bureaucracy with lots of agencies and NO BALLS. At the first image of this thing in the Gulf, there should have been direct liasion with the military:

    Navy, where are your ready flat decks? Norfolk, ya say? Well, load them bad boys up with as many helos as you can and head to the east coast of FLA. Stand by for further orders. Prepare contingencies for supporting sustained relief operations. Get those fresh water condensors fires up. Stand by to receive liaison officers from state, local and federal authorities. Give these people the communications and planning spaces they require. Questions?

    Army: Helicopers and support crews. Here are three contingencies. Plan to support sustained relief operations under OPCON of this headquarters. Give us a list of your fuel and spare parts requirements. Be prepared for further orders.

    Air Force/Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard: I want pictures of the disaster areas within 30 minutes of the storm clearing. All of those cargo aircraft we bought you? Well, configure them for air dropping food, water, and shelter on a "close air support" basis. Stand by to receive coordinates. Stand by to conduct sustained operations.

    Marine Corps: How many amphibious assault vehicles do you guys have handy? Put them on low-boys, along with engineers, infantry and Navy medical people. Start convoying them to this location. Stand by for further orders.

    7) What the hell am I doing in NOVA, in front of a computer? Why aren't me, my rifle and about 1,000 rounds of ammo headed to NO to shoot those murdering, raping SOB's? Someone has to...government at all levels seems incapable. Anyone looting anything other than a food/clothing store should have been SHOT DEAD and left to pollute the water.

    Folks, obviously there is a lot of planning that would have to take place to execute those orders. But it could have, SHOULD have been done. This wasn't a sucker punch like 9/11...we saw this coming and we led with our chin. We've spent hundreds of millions on disaster preparadness exercises, but come game day our leviathan is too heavy to move. What a display of ineptitude. We were ill-served. My heart goes out to the afflicted.

    Edited to add: Coast Guard, keep doing what you're doing. You were the only organization in this whole goat rope that earned your pay.

    I have agreed with most everything you've said in this and your other posts during this administrative drowning.

    I must dissent from #7 though. I watched all the NETWORK newcasts -- and they have had reporters courageously nearly everywhere -- places that have never seen police or aid of any kind. While people are beyond desperate, beyond crazed with thirst, hunger, and fear for the lives of their parents and children -- the reporters themselves have not observed hardly any violence.

    I'm not doubting that some angry scared and frustrated people are lashing out, counterproductively attempting to force themselves into earlier evacuations, getting bottles of water, or to steal useless things. And I'm not doubting that some of the angry, frustrated and stupid have become armed. In perhaps crazed desperation a few may have even have shot at helicopters etc.

    But from what the reporters on the ground have observed -- these events are rare -- and ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for having stopped delivering aid.

    I fear that there's a special spin going on -- like we have seen alot the last few years. A spin that's in effect trying to dilute the natural sympathy we have for the victims of this catastrophe. Every report no matter how exaggerated of a theft, a rape, a shooting -- degrades our empathy for them, and lessens our anger at the govt.

    When I watch these intrepid reporters boating out to tell of whats going on, I can't help but wonder why FEMA isn't sending boats packed with fresh water etc out -- and taking back stranded refuggees on the return.

    Using helicopters etc., Why haven't massive drops of bottled water and "water buffolos" long ago begun.

    Why are massive evacuations not being done not just from the Superdome and convention center, but from those areas that are still subbmerged, where people are cut off and need to float on rafts or swim to safety.

    Helicopter rescues -- though heroic -- are woefully inefficient except for emergencies.

    High water flat beds and trucks, and boats with outboard motors -- should have been mobilized nearly a week ago.

    They should have requested help from people like NRG who could have come with their own gear.

    New Orleans is a VERY poor city. Its resources are stretched even during prosperous times. It could not have afforded to prepare for a disaster of this magnitude.

    FEMA conducted training excircises with just this scenario of a hurricane that breaches that levee and floods the city.

    A category 5 storm was expected to hit NO days beforehand. At least as early as the previous Thursday news reports were predicting a Cat 5 hit on New Orleans.

    FEMA and the pentagon were warned that it could be the worst case storm for a city like New Orleans .

    But now they claim that all of this was unanticipatable. (Just the like 2 other cases that I can bring up later...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/02/2005 at 11:25 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)

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