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  1. cardio's Avatar
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    #381  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    moments ago on CNN, I heard this quote from a general: "we just did not plan for or expect the worst case scenario..."

    In a few words he encapsulated so much about this Pentagon and this white house ...
    BARYE, please refrain from spouting political ideaology in this discussion. There are more appropriate places to discuss that.
  2. #382  
    Just got this email. Haven't clicked on any of the links, but at least some additional resources of info:

    New Orleans: An American city at the breaking point.

    Tonight, at 8 p.m. ET/PT, a special half-hour edition of 48 Hours focuses on the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina and the desperate search for survivors in New Orleans, a city that is struggling, literally, to survive.

    CBSNews.com is updating this catastrophic story continuously with the latest news, video, pictures and help information. We've launched a Katrina Disaster Blog you can easily stay on top of the latest news as it breaks. And we've put all the latest, most compelling videos of the tragedy in one easy to use place.

    You'll find the latest information on our blog:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in807164.shtml

    The latest video coverage can be found at:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_vi...ion_page.shtml

    For information on how you can help the recovery efforts:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2005...et806207.shtml
  3. #383  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    moments ago on CNN, I heard this quote from a general: "we just did not plan for or expect the worst case scenario..."

    In a few words he encapsulated so much about this Pentagon and this white house ...
    Probably not a place for a lesson in planning or planning theory. However, by definition, the "worst case" is so unlikely and so expensive to deal with that one accepts, assigns, or shares the risk. One uses it to define the limits of what the plan must deal with.

    We use logarithmic scales, like the Safir scale and the Richter scale, to do this. 999 out of a thousand tropical storms are Category 4 or below. There is no upper bound to Category 5 but it is all but empty. There have only been three category 5 hurricanes that ever hit the continental US in recorded history. The probability of a direct hit on New Orleans or any other city is not quite so remote that it will never happen, but "close enough for government work." The fact that someone can identify the scenario does not change that nor make it mandatory to plan for.
    Last edited by whmurray; 09/01/2005 at 04:19 PM.
  4. #384  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    JMill, come on guy, give us some clips of the article. Some of us are lazy.
    What kind of society do we live in when you're too lazy to click on a link?

    It was just more about how the efforts at the Superdome were being hampered by disorderly conduct, ie fights and fires breaking out.
    I'm back!
  5. #385  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    moments ago on CNN, I heard this quote from a general: "we just did not plan for or expect the worst case scenario..."

    In a few words he encapsulated so much about this Pentagon and this white house ...
    From using your overused phrase 'repugnant', to quoting a military General who has nothing to do with FEMA he has nothing to do with the City of New Orleans or to blaming this on Bush is fn getting old. I half enjoy your posts then you post something like this. How bout bringing up the Mayor of New Orleans. Shouldn't this guy know more than anyone else on how bad it could and eventually became. Wasn't he the one that ordered a mandatory evacuation on Saturday? Maybe you are playing Red vs Blue since the Mayor of NO is a democrat, but Bush does not rule like a King, orders for evacuations come from local govt.
  6. #386  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Probably not a place for a lesson in planning or planning theory. However, by definition, the "worst case" is so unlikely and so expensive to deal with that one accepts, assigns, or shares the risk. One uses it to define the limits of what the plan must deal with.

    We use logarithmic scales, like the Safir scale and the Richter scale, to do this. 999 out of a thousand tropical storms are Category 4 or below. There is no upper bound to Category 5 but it is all but empty. There have only been three category 5 hurricanes that ever hit the continental US in recorded history. The probability of a direct hit on New Orleans or any other city is not quite so remote that it will never happen, but "close enough for government work." The fact that someone can identify the scenario does not change that nor make it mandatory to plan for.
    Designing for a 500-yr flood means you're likely to be in trouble sometime over the next 500 years (or something like that)...
  7. #387  
    Steal This Banner!!



    link it to: http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate
  8. #388  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Steal This Banner!!
    If it were smaller, I'd make it a signature.

    FYI, Costco is taking donations (going to Red Cross) on their website. The store near me is also taking donations for Red Cross. I imagine all their stores will take donations at the register as well.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  9. #389  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    How bout some of the people on this site. I set a goal to reach $10,000 and so far we are only at like 2500-3000. And I think a total of 13 people have donated to the RedCross.

    Just gave $50 and gave blood. Blood will be needed due to the supply they had will go bad because no electricity.
  10. #390  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    How bout some of the people on this site. I set a goal to reach $10,000 and so far we are only at like 2500-3000. And I think a total of 13 people have donated to the RedCross.
    Just because people don't post doesn't mean they aren't donating. I have made a donation (matched by BofA). I won't say how much because this isn't a contest.
  11. #391  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    I am watching a report by Tony Zumbado of MSNBC. He is describing desperate people. "These are the left-behind." He is not describing middle-class people who stayed by choice. These are people without the resources to evacuate. These are people who went to the Superdome. They went to the Convention Center on orders from the authorities to be evacuated. The government has decided to "halt the evacuation" for fear of them.

    Zumbado assures us that they are orderly and that they are supportive of one another. They are only hungry, thirsty, and frightened. They feel abandoned.

    Perhaps they are just acting out their anger. Perhaps they are not desperate at all. Perhaps Zumbado is their dupe. Perhaps they are a danger to others. Perhaps he did not see the dying that he reports. Perhaps he is exagerating in hope of a Pulitzer. Perhaps.

    But Thursday is slipping away. If Zumbado is right, we only have hours to save the most vulnerable of them. While they are waiting for "more boots on the ground," can they not air drop food and water. If they are afraid to use helicopters, can they not drop by parachute from high up?

    It is Thursday and for want of food and water some of these people will not live to see Friday.

    And if I am "emotional," so be it. If I am angry and passionate, so be it.
    It is now 6pm Thursday. The time stamp on the above is 529Z. There has just been another report from the convention center, this one from CNN. There is still no food or water. These desperate people are still seen as a security risk.

    Wolf Blitzer in Washington just interviewed Raymond Cooper in the convention center. Cooper says people are still lined up waiting for the buses that have never come. He also says that there are armed gangs. He fears for what will happen if the NG comes, with or without food. He is afraid of what will happen if darkness comes before buses or food and water.

    CNN is interviewing Michael Brown, the head of FEMA. He uses the term "conditions of urban warfare." On being asked why it is taking so long to get food and water to the convention center, he talks about all the food and water that he sending in but is silent on the convention center. He is characterizing the refugees as "those who refused to evacuate." Given the number of times that they have been characterized that way in this thread, I guess I should not be surprised.

    Switched to CNN. Brown again, same line. He now admits that he has held back so that his people would not become victims. He says the "law and order problem" may be a little exagerated, but not to worry, he already has 4700 armed troops in New Orleans and going to 40,000. Now he says that the people at the convention center have had food and water this am and evening. "Could not or would not evacuate." He has alll the resources he needs.

    Governor Blanco just said that she has been promised 40K troops but there is no authority at the convention center. Mayor Nagin has just made an appeal on CNN for food, water, and buses for the convention center. Is it possible that the Governor and the Mayor do not talk? Is it possible that FEMA does not watch CNN? FEMA says that they are waiting for a request from the "local authority." The governor is getting ready to send in armed troops where food and water will do. I am no longer angry, simply resigned. Why look for malice when stupidity will explain everything. Thursday is almost gone.
    Last edited by whmurray; 09/01/2005 at 06:26 PM.
  12. #392  
    John Spain, of the Baton Rouge Area Foundation, says Baton Rouge is now the largest city in Louisiana. He says that there is a triage center on the campus of LSU but it has run out of places to send people. Refugees in BR do not have money to buy gasoline for their cars. They evacuated with only the clothes on their backs expecting to be home in tens of hours. He expects that he will have to resettle tens of thousands of those refugees in Baton Rouge. They can never go back.

    One of my brothers evacuated to Tampa. He is a mediator. He is considering moving to BR because he cannot survive if he shuts down his office until he can go back to NO.
  13. #393  
    Name for the rebuilt city? New*2 Orleans? Orleans? Yet another Orleans? The Orleans 650?
  14. #394  
    Right now, air traffic control over the Gulf coast should be a major problem. There SHOULD be C-130s performing air drops and two hundred plus military helicopters moving stuff and people around.

    FOR GOD'S SAKE, CAN SOMEONE GET SOME WATER TO THE PEOPLE STANDING ON THE BRIDGE WITH SHEPARD SMITH?
  15. #395  
    I just confirmed reports on TV....Fox News I think or maybe CNN.....that there are currently no boats trying to rescue because idiots are shooting at them. Medical emergency personel are being armed because they are being shot at while trying to get to people who need help. They interviewed a person locked up in his house and said yesterday he saw a cop chasing some looters and the looters turned and shot the cop in the forehead just so they could get away with their shopping cart. I don't think it is a large number of idiots shooting, but just enough to stop help from getting to those who really need some help......man someday they will have a lot to answer for!

    They also said there are getting reports of rapes and increasing number of fights as people are still waiting for food and water.
  16. #396  
    What a classic government **** up, from soup to nuts.

    1) The city and state knew this could happen....was GOING to happen one day. Why weren't there warehouses filled with emergency supplies, say for 30,000 for two weeks, located within the city? Why weren't people encouraged to stock five days worth of stuff in their homes? Even people on very limited incomes could manage that.

    2) I know they ran numerous simulations and drills over the years, yet come game day they were paralyzed to inaction. It was like the system was stunned that such a storm, with such consequences, could actually happen.

    3) If the levees were such a critical element, why wasn't heavy engineering equipment prepositioned to deal with a major breech?

    4) Why weren't the National Guards of states outside of the projected path, plus or minus a state a two, fully manned up and ready to launch? I say adjacent states, because it is asking too much of Guard members to abandon their families in the face of such a threat. Within 24 hours of the storm clearing, C-130s should have been dropping relief parcels within the city, maybe on beacons that could have been prepositioned. "In the event of disaster, move to these locations. There are emergency beacons there...help will come soon!" Convoys of MPs, engineers (briding units with heavy equipment), infantry soldiers and medical personnel should have been rolling in.

    5) Why didn't the people of NO have a CLUE as to where to go or what to do? Who the hell was in charge?

    6) Homeland Security has revealed itself as yet another ineffective government bureaucracy with lots of agencies and NO BALLS. At the first image of this thing in the Gulf, there should have been direct liasion with the military:

    Navy, where are your ready flat decks? Norfolk, ya say? Well, load them bad boys up with as many helos as you can and head to the east coast of FLA. Stand by for further orders. Prepare contingencies for supporting sustained relief operations. Get those fresh water condensors fires up. Stand by to receive liaison officers from state, local and federal authorities. Give these people the communications and planning spaces they require. Questions?

    Army: Helicopers and support crews. Here are three contingencies. Plan to support sustained relief operations under OPCON of this headquarters. Give us a list of your fuel and spare parts requirements. Be prepared for further orders.

    Air Force/Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard: I want pictures of the disaster areas within 30 minutes of the storm clearing. All of those cargo aircraft we bought you? Well, configure them for air dropping food, water, and shelter on a "close air support" basis. Stand by to receive coordinates. Stand by to conduct sustained operations.

    Marine Corps: How many amphibious assault vehicles do you guys have handy? Put them on low-boys, along with engineers, infantry and Navy medical people. Start convoying them to this location. Stand by for further orders.

    7) What the hell am I doing in NOVA, in front of a computer? Why aren't me, my rifle and about 1,000 rounds of ammo headed to NO to shoot those murdering, raping SOB's? Someone has to...government at all levels seems incapable. Anyone looting anything other than a food/clothing store should have been SHOT DEAD and left to pollute the water.

    Folks, obviously there is a lot of planning that would have to take place to execute those orders. But it could have, SHOULD have been done. This wasn't a sucker punch like 9/11...we saw this coming and we led with our chin. We've spent hundreds of millions on disaster preparadness exercises, but come game day our leviathan is too heavy to move. What a display of ineptitude. We were ill-served. My heart goes out to the afflicted.

    Edited to add: Coast Guard, keep doing what you're doing. You were the only organization in this whole goat rope that earned your pay.
  17. naivete's Avatar
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    #397  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Just because people don't post doesn't mean they aren't donating. I have made a donation (matched by BofA). I won't say how much because this isn't a contest.
    No one said this is a contest. NRG is just setting an example for others to follow. I think it's a good thing and he/she should not be chastise for it.
  18. #398  
    Naivete.....just wanted to welcome you to the forums!!!!!

    ( and attacking a Mod with your first post....wow.... )
  19. #399  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Naivete.....just wanted to welcome you to the forums!!!!!

    (and attacking a Mod with your first post....wow.... )
    Has a username ever so fit a first post?

    J/K naivete, however I agree with KR about not turning this into a bidding war.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  20. #400  
    Quote Originally Posted by naivete
    No one said this is a contest. NRG is just setting an example for others to follow. I think it's a good thing and he/she should not be chastise for it.
    encore...encore
    Well behaved women rarely make history

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