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  1. #361  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Granted that there are more dangerous spots than others, but it would be hard pressed for everyone in the US to find somewhere where there isn't any substantial risk.

    Volcanoes: The entire NW with Mt St Helens, Mr Rainier (which is predicted to blow anytime within 100 yrs), Mt Hood over looking Portland, OR. And the N Mid West with Yellowstone National Park with it's caldera that has erupted with super volcano strength several times in the past.

    Hurricanes: Anywhere along the E coast and along the gulf of Mexico.

    Tornadoes: Mid USA.

    Earthquakes: Anywhere west of the Rockies. They say Seattle is over due for a big one and is one of the cities at greatest predicted risk right now.

    Flooding: Anywhere along the bottom half of the Mississippi River

    Tsunamis: Anywhere within 20 miles of any coast line or 100 plus miles up along any major rivers connected to the sea.

    Hobbes -- Hurricanes are of a different "category" -- they are regular events -- massively damaging-- and their cycles are far more frequent than Tsunamis, volcanos or even earthquakes.

    Tornados happen alot -- but they affect very small areas -- and compared to hurricanes they cause little loss of life or propery damage.

    Its incomprehensible to me that people are able to build these million dollar vacation homes on vulnerable beach -- and then rebuild them again and again after they are hit by hurricanes -- all because of the Federal insurance ...
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  2. #362  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Earthquakes: Anywhere west of the Rockies. They say Seattle is over due for a big one and is one of the cities at greatest predicted risk right now.
    You're forgetting the New Madrid Fault.
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  3. #363  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    You're forgetting the New Madrid Fault.

    you're forgetting that this is all your FAULT !
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    #364  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Granted that there are more dangerous spots than others, but it would be hard pressed for everyone in the US to find somewhere where there isn't any substantial risk.

    Volcanoes: The entire NW with Mt St Helens, Mr Rainier (which is predicted to blow anytime within 100 yrs), Mt Hood over looking Portland, OR. And the N Mid West with Yellowstone National Park with it's caldera that has erupted with super volcano strength several times in the past.

    Hurricanes: Anywhere along the E coast and along the gulf of Mexico.

    Tornadoes: Mid USA.

    Earthquakes: Anywhere west of the Rockies. They say Seattle is over due for a big one and is one of the cities at greatest predicted risk right now. EDIT: and anyone along the New Madrid Fault in the MidEastern US.

    Flooding: Anywhere along the bottom half of the Mississippi River

    Tsunamis: Anywhere within 20 miles of any coast line or 100 plus miles up along any major rivers connected to the sea.
    Right, and if I choose to live in an area that is at an especially high risk then I have to accept some of the responsiblity.
  5. #365  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Right, and if I choose to live in an area that is at an especially high risk then I have to accept some of the responsiblity.
    Is federal flood insurance self-sustaining? That is, do premiums cover claims?

    BTW, that's an honest question.
  6. #366  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    There is a difference between living in a vulnerable place and having poor infrastructure. New Orleans is where it is because it was the first and biggest "dry" spot as one came up the delta. It has required considerable engineering genius to permit it to grow to its present size. Much of modern New Orleans is reclaimed from swamps and the lake and protected by the Mississippi River Levees. The system of pumps and canals that keep the city dry are an engineering marvel (look it up). Those systems are called infrastructure.

    The Metairie in which I lived was within the Metairie ridge and protected by the same levees as Orleans Parish. There was no Jefferson Parish Levee Board. Modern Metairie did not exist then. Modern Metairie is almost all reclaimed land. As more and more people moved to the West and to the East, the levees outside the ridges were built to protect those people. Most of them have been built since the 70's but before that there was nothing and no one to protect. Said another way, modern Metairie is infrastructure, created out of swamp by the Jefferson Parish Levee Board.

    My brother's house was across the street from the lakefront levee in Metairie. During Katrina the lake topped the Levee and it is likely that his house was destroyed. However, the levee held and Jefferson Parish is in much better shape now than Orleans. That is called infrastructure and it worked as designed if not as my brother might have hoped. (The 17th Sreet Canal is the border between Orleans and Jefferson Parishes. It might has easily failed on the west as on the east.)

    Now, one might wish that a modern city had never been built in such a vulnarable spot but I predict that it will be rebuilt in the same place. The levees may be a little higher and a little stronger but not so high or so strong that once every couple of centuries nature does not top them. It is hubris to believe that any artifact will be proof against everything nature can conjure. That does not mean it is "poor."

    after what might be month of immersion in a toxic bath, I expect that most of NO will need to be razed.

    Perhaps that debris will be used as land fill in an attempt to replace the land lost to various development, and extend the sinking delta. (pure speculation).

    But the old NO has effectively been lost -- for this generation no matter where it gets rebuilt.
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    #367  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Hobbes -- Hurricanes are of a different "category" -- they are regular events -- massively damaging-- and their cycles are far more frequent than Tsunamis, volcanos or even earthquakes.

    Tornados happen alot -- but they affect very small areas -- and compared to hurricanes they cause little loss of life or propery damage.

    Its incomprehensible to me that people are able to build these million dollar vacation homes on vulnerable beach -- and then rebuild them again and again after they are hit by hurricanes -- all because of the Federal insurance ...
    Hard to type this but, I ag, I agr, I, I agree with BARYE(whew, got it out). Look at all the multi-million dollar homes that have been destroyed by landslides in SoCal only to be rebuilt, the homes along the coast in FL that get wiped out and rebuilt.
  8. #368  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Right, and if I choose to live in an area that is at an especially high risk then I have to accept some of the responsiblity.
    Where in the US is there not some kind of high risk of one kind or another? The challenge is that if it supports economic growth and jobs it is probably in a higher risk area of one kind or another.

    I probably agree with you....but I am uncertain exactly what you mean? I have taken all the necessary insurance I can. I have provided both immediate short term and long term means of supporting the survival of my family during an emergency. We have personal emergency plans depending if we can seperated by rivers with downed bridges or all at home.

    For example, the entire NW (from the border of Canada to the border of CA) is at risk of earthquake, Tsunamis, Volcanoes, Flooding, and believe it or not Tornadoes or twisters (we have had 5 touchdowns that I know about in the last 4 years). What responsibility should each individual have now to prepare? What should the gov have?
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 09/01/2005 at 02:49 PM.
  9. #369  
    Speaking of re-building... Let's discuss what practically can and can't be done.

    There will HAVE to be some sort of industry there at the mouth of the Mississippi. Oil can be handled via pipeline (as I heard from a former NO industry guy) elsewhere along the coast. I can't see a viable plan for residential recovery. The ground is spoiled and it will probably be too difficult to clean up, drain, and re-build for private homes.

    Old New Orleans is dead. What can replace it?
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  10. #370  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    No one is at fault for failing to plan properly here.
    The hurricane was bad, but not as bad as expected. It started to get really bad when the levees broke, and lake Pontchartrain flooded the city.

    I don't understand why you don't seem to find it scandalous that literally nothing was there (no plan, no material) to close the breach. The levees apparently are ok for Category 3 hurricanes. And what if a Category 4 hurricane comes along? You wait and start thinking what to do after the levee collapsed?

    If I would live in N.O. I would call this lack of planning criminal.
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    #371  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Where in the US is ther not some kind of high risk of one kind or another? The challenge is that if it supports economic growth and jobs it is probably in a higher risk area of one kind or another.

    I probably agree with you....but I am uncertain exactly what you mean? I have taken all the necessary insurance I can. I have provided both immediate short term and long term means of supporting my family during an emergency. We have personal emergency plans depending if we can seperated by rivers with downed bridges or all at home.

    But the entire NW is at risk of earthquake, Tsunamis, Volcanoes, Flooding, and believe it or not Tornadoes or twisters (we have had 5 touchdowns that I know about in the last 4 years). What responsibility should each individual have now to prepare? What should the gov have?
    This started by my response to whmurray post that ended with the victims bear no responsiblity. I was simply stating that you need to know the risks for where you decided to live and plan accordingly. If an evacuation order/suggestion is called then you should have a plan, you should have an emergency kit available to include transistor radio to keep current on the situation. When I lived in that region we were told every year before the hurricane season to have a kit ready to last a week minimum. Make arangements to evacuate if told to do so. I fully understand that there are people that simply could not have anything extra due to their financial situation, but many could and chose not to. Again, I am not hounding those in that situation, but more so urging others to plan now for the area you live in. Contact your local Red Cross or local law enforcment officials and ask what they reccomend for an emergency kit for your area. In my situation I have to prepare for earthquakes and floods for when another major quake hits, not if but when.
  12. #372  
    Am I the only one offended by how cheap the MLB and NBA are being with their goals to raise $1 million each?
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  13. #373  
    because of their power to devastate huge areas, their regularlity, and frequentcy huricanes are unlike any other natural event.

    (Mississipi flooding is frequent and very damaging -- but not comparable in so many ways)

    One of the ways that development of expensive vacation homes etc. on barrier islands costs all of us at the benefit of the wealthy, is the pressure to do special expensive beach erosion remediation stuff -- and beach replenishment -- all of which damages the remedial role that barrier islands are intended to play -- and which compromises other areas down the coast from where work is done.
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  14. #374  
    Quote Originally Posted by MVT
    Am I the only one offended by how cheap the MLB and NBA are being with their goals to raise $1 million each?


    probably about their Gatorade budget
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  15. #375  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    This started by my response to whmurray post that ended with the victims bear no responsiblity. I was simply stating that you need to know the risks for where you decided to live and plan accordingly. If an evacuation order/suggestion is called then you should have a plan, you should have an emergency kit available to include transistor radio to keep current on the situation.
    Oh...I gotcha....I fully agree!
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    #376  
    Quote Originally Posted by MVT
    Am I the only one offended by how cheap the MLB and NBA are being with their goals to raise $1 million each?
    How bout some of the people on this site. I set a goal to reach $10,000 and so far we are only at like 2500-3000. And I think a total of 13 people have donated to the RedCross.
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    #377  
    To help put this in perspective in relation to the time it is taking to get aid in and evacuees out

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/...her_katrina_dc

    Federal disaster declarations covered 90,000 square miles

    along the U.S. Gulf Coast, an area roughly the size of Great Britain. As many as 400,000 people had been forced to leave their homes.
  18. #378  
    moments ago on CNN, I heard this quote from a general: "we just did not plan for or expect the worst case scenario..."

    In a few words he encapsulated so much about this Pentagon and this white house ...
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  19. #379  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    moments ago on CNN, I heard this quote from a general: "we just did not plan for or expect the worst case scenario..."

    In a few words he encapsulated so much about this Pentagon and this white house ...
    Doesnt Louisana have a governor? I didnt know that the whole state has aleays been under federal jurisdiction.
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  20. #380  
    Doesn't New Orleans have a Mayor? I didn't know his name was George Bush.

    Once again...****ing disgusting.
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