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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiveSoundGuy
    If wer're goin tomorrow, I gotta pick up some new socks.
    FINALLY!!! Someone offers a plan.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  2. #42  
    it was a political statement.

    Thread Crapper
    ~ August 16,2005 Poll-Master ~
    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

    I have a fondness for intelligence.
    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Actually, I take that back. I get the idea that you guys think it is that easy to draw plans for a war. So okay, it's March 18th, 2003. I wanna invade Iraq tomorrow, what do we do?


    A year or so ago I had an unusual customer.

    Our conversation began interestingly with his mentioning that he’d just gotten back from Iraq. When I asked he confirmed that he had worked for the CPA -- the Coaliton Provisional Authority. I’d thought that I had previously heard his name in the news –- but I didn’t recall who he was.

    I can’t share my profession since I’m in the Monkey Protection Program -– but I was not there for political or journalistic reasons.

    As we talked further, I learned that he had been a senior aide to Bremmer -- our appointed head of the CPA.

    During that conversation I shared how I thought that the dumbest thing we did in Iraq was disbanding the Iraqi army.

    He become ENRAGED at me !! Not violent or insulting –- but incredibly animated. Red in the face animated.

    He practically SHOUTED that “we didn’t disband the Iraqi army –- THE IRAQI ARMY DISBANDED ITSELF

    I’m a little concerned –- he’s a bit past middle aged with two bad knees so I figure I’ve got a decent shot at getting away –– but I’ve got to keep an eye on the silverware drawer...

    I recalled how we had dropped those pamphlets on the Iraq army telling them to go home –- that we didn’t want to fight them, that we didn’t want to stop and take them prisoner.

    They followed our instructions -- they were incredibly compliant. All they wanted was a paycheck and a less malevolent President in charge.


    WW2 had ended similarly in Japan. The Japanese gov’t and its leadership was absolutely destroyed –- a govt and leadership that was incomparably evil. It was also an army that was robotic in its acceptance of command, as well as in its willingness to do evil.

    We beheaded the leadership of that army and put it under our command –- and left it in charge for many weeks after it surrendered throughout asia and Japan.

    It took orders from us and did our bidding.

    We should have as a start -- done this same thing in Iraq !!!


    Our “conversation” had lasted for several hours.

    Approx. five months later I read in the Washington Post that the man I had spoken with was one of the chief advocates for disbanding the Iraqi army.

    DISBANDING THE IRAQI ARMY –- that was our single dumbest move after the invasion itself !!
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/28/2005 at 08:30 AM. Reason: rewritten for clarity
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  4. #44  
    I think the same conclusion to go to war would have occured no matter who was in office. I also think the war plays out similarily with whoever is in office. Strategies are (at least I think they are) made by military men. I'm sure POTUS could over ride them, but typically don't.

    So their military should have been kept intact - that's your answer to everything have gone smoother?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    If you're dumb enough to invade -- you don't do almost any of the stuff that we did do!!
    I'M STILL WAITING FOR A PLAN!!!!!!

    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  6. #46  
    You may be a while. Have a seat.

    Thread Crapper
    ~ August 16,2005 Poll-Master ~
    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

    I have a fondness for intelligence.
    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiveSoundGuy
    You may be a while. Have a seat.

    I'm sorry --- my security detail just wisked me away to a safe "undisclosed" location -- they thought they saw the SAME monkey walk TWICE past this house !!

    a personage in my position can't be too cautious -- remember what happened to Trotsky... But I'm back now -- at least for little while.
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  8. #48  
    Brake failure, if memory serves me correct. Shame.

    Thread Crapper
    ~ August 16,2005 Poll-Master ~
    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

    I have a fondness for intelligence.
    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  9.    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I think the same conclusion to go to war would have occured no matter who was in office. I also think the war plays out similarily with whoever is in office. Strategies are (at least I think they are) made by military men. I'm sure POTUS could over ride them, but typically don't.

    So their military should have been kept intact - that's your answer to everything have gone smoother?

    NO ONE would have invaded iraq except for junior.

    There has never been a group to occupy power in country as simultaneusly sure beyond arrogance of its beliefs -- while being ignorant of facts, history, and nuance.

    They were blissful within their certainty: cooly predicting flower pedals on the streets of Bagdad, a new democracy that will set a new template for the middle east, a new american ally, and a cost free occupation that will be resolved in months.

    If stupidity alone was felonious -- my favorite guillotine would have gone through several blades by now ...
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/28/2005 at 08:44 AM.
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  10.    #50  
    IF they had not disbanded the army or the existing administative structure -– but had co-opted it -– paid it -– redirected it -- let it become reformed through guidance, incentive, selective promotion -- maybe things could have evolved in a more rational less violent way.

    The country could have been kept intact. It could have been reformed. Chaos did not inevitably need to descend.

    Learn from how MaCarthur governed Japan after WW2.
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/28/2005 at 08:32 AM.
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  11.    #51  
    While having allowed the existing structure to carry forward, we in the background would have started employing IRAQIS for all the jobs that needed to be done.

    One of the first controversies that the slime ball clique who run THIS country got enmeshed in just after the war, was the dispensing of juicy contracts and the division of the spoils of war.

    Remember how junior told the ruskies, the frenchies, the english, and the whomevers that they needn’t apply -– cause junior’s friends were going to be first in line.

    Iraq was going to be the MOTHER OF ALL PORK BARREL PROJECTS – it was supposed to be one long interstate bridge to nowhere.

    We imported everything into Iraq, treated the professionals there like they were children, sent the army and police home without jobs, money, security, or prestige -- and wondered why there was this cesspool of fetid hatred of us that insurgents would then swim in ???
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/28/2005 at 09:32 AM.
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  12.    #52  
    If no one shares in this thread it gets to be a boring monoloque.

    Come on rightists -- where art thou ??


    Iraq has had a history that a sophisticated invader would have CO-OPTED -– not smashed.

    It had a murderously competent internal police force -– and a brutally effective border patrol.

    Why destroy them when you have nothing to replace them with ????

    If they were dumb enough to invade, at least be smart enough to listen to people in the CIA who had experience and knowledge of the nuance of Saddam’s Iraq.

    Those people were shuntered aside, retired, and reassigned when they didn’t drink junior’s Kool-Aid (thanks da T).

    They understood that Iraq had been the most successful arab country in the world -– one with a large affluent middle class, a western cultural orientation, and an educated sophisticated work force.

    It accepted a limited diversity of religious practice, tolerant islam was the norm, and women had rights unknown in most of the middle east.

    The country that was on the verge of WMD before the 1st Gulf War was not a failed 3rd world state. It had descended toward that point after years of war, a decade of hard sanctions, and internal uprising and paranoia.

    But Iraq was resuscitatable.

    Our idiocy, our arrogance, instead made it much much worse.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  13.    #53  
    it seems as though the right has been struck dumb by the enightenment that has poured forth into them --
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  14.    #54  
    a few more words about the people responsible for the "mistakes" -- and that one guy in particullar.

    This former aide to Bremmer was a decent, well intentioned guy -- -- which is why he took it so personally when I described what had happened there -- what he was responsible for -- as a calamitous failure.

    Before working for Bremmer he had had significant state dept. experience. Though not especially political in the partisan sense, it was obvious that he bought into the essential neo-con arguments, and truly believed in the idea of disbanding the army and de-Baathizing Iraq.

    In some important ways these people were the victims of their own naivete -- their own romantic illusions about the world.

    Though the work for this customer lasted several days, I rarely saw him again. And when we did interact, we uncomfortably avoided any kind of substantive discussion again.

    That first animated angry discussion though always seemed to be lingering in the air, still echoing...
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  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    it seems as though the right has been struck dumb by the enightenment that has poured forth into them --
    Actually, I'm spending a lot of time on the shooting range this weekend. (That was our monkey your detail saw.) I'll be back to point out the fallacies in your blatering.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    NO ONE would have invaded iraq except for junior.

    There has never been a group to occupy power in country as simultaneusly sure beyond arrogance of its beliefs -- while being ignorant of facts, history, and nuance.

    They were blissful within their certainty: cooly predicting flower pedals on the streets of Bagdad, a new democracy that will set a new template for the middle east, a new american ally, and a cost free occupation that will be resolved in months.

    If stupidity alone was felonious -- my favotite guillotine would have gone through several blades by now ...
    I think the best indicator many would is that 77 Senators voted for it including many Democrats including Mr. John Kerry.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    If no one shares in this thread it gets to be a boring monoloque.

    Come on rightists -- where art thou ??

    Once again, you are a better strategist, therefore this thread is how you and any other armchair generals would have drawn up the battle plans. It's not up to the "Righties" to add to your scenario. This is your forum to tell us how we would have "won the war in XXX days if we had done these things..."
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  18. vw2002's Avatar
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    #58  
    "That first animated angry discussion though always seemed to be lingering in the air, still echoing..."

    echoing... beckoning... reverberating... calling out....
    I gotta have more cowbell
  19. #59  
    Now that's a clear plan!


    Thread Crapper
    ~ August 16,2005 Poll-Master ~
    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

    I have a fondness for intelligence.
    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Actually, I'm spending a lot of time on the shooting range this weekend. (That was our monkey your detail saw.) I'll be back to point out the fallacies in your blatering.

    lucky for us that those chimps learned their tradecaft at one of your side's schools --

    do you guys usually dump the interns with the weekend stakeouts ?? Or does your side even have an A-team ??

    Still waiting on the fallacies amongst the "blatering"
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