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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    A grenade laucher would be a lousy choice for self defense. Unless you plan to melee someone with it, it's useless in an armed confrontation.
    well, if I hear some rustling in the woods at the back of my house late at night, a grenade launcher could come in quite handy.

    The question is - do you want to escalate an arms race? If the "law-abiding" citizens are armed to the teeth, then the criminals may find ways to increase their firepower. My cousin's husband is a police officer at a major metropolitan city - and he has been in situations where the criminals (drug dealers) were using bullet-proof vests. And there have been instances where police officers themslves have been killed by armor-piercing bullets.
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  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I've seen dumb people use their car as a weapon. A very high profile sports figure recently used his car as a weapon.
    True - and the same could be said for almost any object. Somebody recently had his head bashed in by a frying pan.
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  3.    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    no data to support that
    Google "John Lott More Guns Less Crime" and get back to me.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Google "John Lott More Guns Less Crime" and get back to me.
    *sigh* I mentioned him way back (see my earlier post) as someone whose data did not hold up to scrutiny. I've read his papers, even when he used the pseudonym "Mary Rosh". Nobody else has been able to replicate his findings or track down his original data.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Which particular factor do you believe had the greatest impact on reducing crime?

    1. Tougher gun control laws
    2. Strong economy (well at least in the 90's)
    3. Tougher laws (3 strikes, longer prison terms, capital punishment)
    4. Tougher enforcement (more police, more prisons)
    5. Innovative policing strategies (e.g. NYC police during Guiliani's regime)

    There are host of other explanations also - aging population, changing immigrant demographics etc. Take your pick.
    Ok - we've established that gun control did not lead to reduced crime, and in spite of some folks fantasies, neither did gun-ownership. So what else could have contributed to the dramatic drop in crime rate? (notwithstanding certain people's delusion that it did not drop)
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Ok - we've established that gun control did not lead to reduced crime, and in spite of some folks fantasies, neither did gun-ownership.
    I don't think we ever established that...I believe that's your assumption.
  7. NRG
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Ok - we've established that gun control did not lead to reduced crime, and in spite of some folks fantasies, neither did gun-ownership. So what else could have contributed to the dramatic drop in crime rate? (notwithstanding certain people's delusion that it did not drop)
    Economy? Same reason why there is hardly any crime in "nice neighborhoods".
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    I don't think we ever established that...I believe that's your assumption.
    I don't think so - it seemed that every one here pretty much agreed that gun control didn't do diddly-squat for lowering crime rates.

    As for gun-ownership - most of the laws enacted in 1990 through 2000 have been more on the side of gun-control (e.g. Brady Act, local city ordinances in Chicago, Washington DC, gun buyback programs etc.). So at a national level, on average, there have been more gun control laws enacted, that have at best been impotent. Any argument with that?
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Economy? Same reason why there is hardly any crime in "nice neighborhoods".
    Nope - even though the economy grew quite bit in the 90's there was no data to link the economy with the drop in crime rate. For example, unemployment rate fell by 2% during the 90's - but the crime rate dropped by more than 50%. Furthermore if you look to the previous economic growth spurt (in the 60's) there was in fact an increase in the crime rate.

    So the economy is also ruled out.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    I don't think so - it seemed that every one here pretty much agreed that gun control didn't do diddly-squat for lowering crime rates.
    Err...I just re-read your post. We're arguing the same side. My bad.

    Take a look at this document...it's a myth/fact sheet about gun control. Look at page 32 for crime rates. Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    As for gun-ownership - most of the laws enacted in 1990 through 2000 have been more on the side of gun-control (e.g. Brady Act, local city ordinances in Chicago, Washington DC, gun buyback programs etc.). So at a national level, on average, there have been more gun control laws enacted, that have at best been impotent. Any argument with that?
    No argument at all...Complete agreement. Gun-control went wild and not only was "impotent", it was counter-productive for protection.
  11. NRG
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Nope - even though the economy grew quite bit in the 90's there was no data to link the economy with the drop in crime rate. For example, unemployment rate fell by 2% during the 90's - but the crime rate dropped by more than 50%. Furthermore if you look to the previous economic growth spurt (in the 60's) there was in fact an increase in the crime rate.

    So the economy is also ruled out.
    I will look around and you do the same. I bet if you look at the history of the economy and violent crime they will coincide. Let's do each other a favor and look for data supporting our positions. Deal?
  12. hsk
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    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bouncer
    Law Abiding citizens don't shoot people needlessly.

    Just cute, fuzzy and delicious creatures.
    Don't forget their little kids shooting each other accidentally.
    To get back to the original post, it doesn't seem like the suspects were packing. If the soldiers were packing they likely would have used the packing and been percieved to have shot unarmed assailants, for what outcome, who knows...
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    you've got to be joking! All the police departments in the US are covering up the true crime stats for the past 10 years????

    Scary thing is that they let people like you carry guns

    You keep living in youR dream world.

    I know what's up because I'm a retired NYC Police Officer.

    You want to read the truth?

    Try this link.

    http://p066.ezboard.com/fnypdrant646...topic&index=10

    It's a site for anyone on the job, active or retired, to ***** and moan about the job and bosses called NYPD RANT.

    The bosses hate the site but can't shut it down since it's an anonymous board.

    Read it and weep.
    Last edited by Bouncer; 09/01/2005 at 12:20 AM.
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  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    It is scary when dumb people carry guns (and I was not refering to you).
    I hope you weren't refering to me. I did my time and not in ROT"FRICKING"C.


    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Having been in the ROTC myself I can also handle a number of guns
    You did a stint in ROTC and all of a sudden you're a combat vet. HA!

    Thanks for the laugh.
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  15. NRG
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bouncer
    I hope you weren't refering to me. I did my time and not in ROT"FRICKING"C.




    You did a stint in ROTC and all of a sudden you're a combat vet. HA!

    Thanks for the laugh.
    Geez, touchy. He said he can shoot a gun, not that he was a hardened vet. Relax and enjoy the pension.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Geez, touchy. He said he can shoot a gun, not that he was a hardened vet. Relax and enjoy the pension.

    It's late.

    I got miffed that some ROTC joker actually called ME dumb.

    ROTC...

    The Boy Scouts have more fire power.

    And respect to boot.

    I guess I better take a Geritol along with a chill pill before I sign on again.
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  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    True - and the same could be said for almost any object. Somebody recently had his head bashed in by a frying pan.
    Heck you can use a soda straw as a deadly weapon. I use to use an example during business training seminars where I would ask someone to try to put a soda straw through a raw potato. No one ever could. Then I would do it the first try in under a second....the point being you can do anything if you know how to do it.

    If it would go all the way through a raw potato, it could do considerable damage to none bone parts of the body.

    (the key to the straw through the potato is to simply put your thumb on the end of the straw. The pressure build up in the straw gives it strength to go through potato.....at least as long as you don't use a bendy straw .....also if you try it at home careful that the straw does not go all the way through and into your hand. )
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Ok - we've established that gun control did not lead to reduced crime, and in spite of some folks fantasies, neither did gun-ownership. So what else could have contributed to the dramatic drop in crime rate? (notwithstanding certain people's delusion that it did not drop)
    I am kind of leaning on the idea of the economy being better (i.e. better economy...more jobs...less unemployment...less violent crime?
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  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    well, if I hear some rustling in the woods at the back of my house late at night, a grenade launcher could come in quite handy.
    LOL...I just like the butterfly trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    The question is - do you want to escalate an arms race?
    I don't think its an arms race. If you have to go to a gun fight...its kind of important to have a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    If the "law-abiding" citizens are armed to the teeth, then the criminals may find ways to increase their firepower.
    I think criminals are going to carry whatever they can get their hands on. If they can get a tec 9, then they will regardless of what the citizens may get.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    My cousin's husband is a police officer at a major metropolitan city - and he has been in situations where the criminals (drug dealers) were using bullet-proof vests.
    Its unfortunate but pretty much anyone can get one if they want to. What the police need are high powered rifles and not just 9mm pistols and 12 gauges.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    And there have been instances where police officers themslves have been killed by armor-piercing bullets.
    Cops can be killed by a .22 - its all about shot placement.
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  20. NRG
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    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bouncer
    I guess I better take a Geritol along with a chill pill before I sign on again.
    Maybe just a beer?
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