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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bouncer
    I thank G-d I never had to shoot anyone but feel better in knowing that if it was me in that video, the outcome would have been much different.

    Better them than me.

    VERY well put.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    Stricter gun control laws have been proven to be COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE in reducing crime (Canada, Australia, etc..). More liberal gun laws have shown to reduce it and recently there's been an increase in "shall issue" states usually with Florida leading the way. I've read several reports but don't have them on hand. I think 1911 may be able to supply a link.
    It's true that stricter gun-control laws (in the US at least) have had nothing to do with reducing crime. And it is true that there is very little correlation between gun ownership and crime. An interesting example is Switzerland - they have the highest per capita gun ownership, but one of the lowest overall crime rates.
    However, just because there is no link between gun control and crime, it does not mean that the converse is true - i.e. that higher gun ownership means less crime. Even though it is a popular idea among gun nuts (and yes, most of them quote the economist John Lott Jr.) there is absolutely no data to back it up.

    No - crime is more of a social issue - we have far more violent behavior here in the US compared to many other countries and unfortunately the easy availability of guns leads to high homicide rates. Nearly 70% of all US homicides involves a gun, and there are more guns than the entire adult population of the US.

    But back to my original question - no, there is no correlation between stricter gun control laws and the drop in US crime rates. So what made the crime drop?
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
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  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    the overall crime rate in the nation has dropped dramatically over the past 10 years and continues to decline - more than 50% drop in overall crime, and by 2004 the murder rate was the lowest in 40 years.

    In New York City the cops call it fudge-stat.

    It's a concept created by James Maple, a former police adviser.

    You take a report at a crime scene, say an stabbing. The victim later dies. Now it's a murder.

    But you don't count the murder, just the original stabbing report.

    Hence, in August 2005, there was a stabbing but no homicides.

    Police Departments are doing this all over the US.
    This is my tagline. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    1. Tougher gun control laws
    .

    So called "Gun Control" laws are another crock of steaming crap.

    They only pass unfair restrictions on law abiding citizens.
    This is my tagline. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    unfortunately the easy availability of guns leads to high homicide rates. Nearly 70% of all US homicides involves a gun

    Guns that were illegally attained.

    Law Abiding citizens don't shoot people needlessly.

    Just cute, fuzzy and delicious creatures.
    This is my tagline. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bouncer
    In New York City the cops call it fudge-stat.

    It's a concept created by James Maple, a former police adviser.

    You take a report at a crime scene, say an stabbing. The victim later dies. Now it's a murder.

    But you don't count the murder, just the original stabbing report.

    Hence, in August 2005, there was a stabbing but no homicides.

    Police Departments are doing this all over the US.
    you've got to be joking! All the police departments in the US are covering up the true crime stats for the past 10 years????

    Scary thing is that they let people like you carry guns
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
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  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    you've got to be joking! All the police departments in the US are covering up the true crime stats for the past 10 years????

    Scary thing is that they let people like you carry guns
    Why is this scary? I spent nine years in the US Army, I can handle any number of arms, legal and illegal.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Why is this scary? I spent nine years in the US Army, I can handle any number of arms, legal and illegal.
    aahhh, fond memories of firing a Mark 19...man I loved that weapon! (fully automatic grenade launcher that was mounted to a APC).

    And the scary thing is....that MORE people like him DON'T carry. An armed society is a polite society.
  9. #69  
    I think the saying goes:

    "I'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6."
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  10.    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    It's true that stricter gun-control laws (in the US at least) have had nothing to do with reducing crime. And it is true that there is very little correlation between gun ownership and crime. An interesting example is Switzerland - they have the highest per capita gun ownership, but one of the lowest overall crime rates.
    However, just because there is no link between gun control and crime, it does not mean that the converse is true - i.e. that higher gun ownership means less crime. Even though it is a popular idea among gun nuts (and yes, most of them quote the economist John Lott Jr.) there is absolutely no data to back it up.

    No - crime is more of a social issue - we have far more violent behavior here in the US compared to many other countries and unfortunately the easy availability of guns leads to high homicide rates. Nearly 70% of all US homicides involves a gun, and there are more guns than the entire adult population of the US.

    But back to my original question - no, there is no correlation between stricter gun control laws and the drop in US crime rates. So what made the crime drop?

    Crime dropped faster, and lower, in states that legalized concealed carry.
  11. NRG
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Crime dropped faster, and lower, in states that legalized concealed carry.
    You know the rules. Cite.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Why is this scary? I spent nine years in the US Army, I can handle any number of arms, legal and illegal.
    It is scary when dumb people carry guns (and I was not refering to you).
    Having been in the ROTC myself I can also handle a number of guns - and have pretty good sharpshooting skills.

    But I've seen situations where people get into an argument - and then pull a gun. Or where road rage leads to people brandishing (or worse firing) guns while in their car. And we're not talking about criminals here - just plain dumb people who think that they can settle something by pulling a gun.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating total gun control. But there must be some way to prevent (or better still take away) guns in the hands of criminals and dumb people.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM

    And the scary thing is....that MORE people like him DON'T carry. An armed society is a polite society.
    taking that argument to the ridiculous extreme - perhaps then the heavier the armament the more polite the society? should we all carry Mark 19 grenade launchers?
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Crime dropped faster, and lower, in states that legalized concealed carry.
    no data to support that
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    taking that argument to the ridiculous extreme - perhaps then the heavier the armament the more polite the society? should we all carry Mark 19 grenade launchers?
    You said it...not me, that's ridiculous. Every law abiding citizen carrying a pistol for protection cannot be compared to a grenade launcher....or a bomb or a nuke!
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    It is scary when dumb people carry guns (and I was not refering to you).
    Again, I have to comment that the scary part is when laws are passed where law abiding citizens can't carry protection, but criminals can! In other words, the criminals don't pay attention to laws....they are CRIMINALS!
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    taking that argument to the ridiculous extreme - perhaps then the heavier the armament the more polite the society? should we all carry Mark 19 grenade launchers?
    A grenade laucher would be a lousy choice for self defense. Unless you plan to melee someone with it, it's useless in an armed confrontation.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    You said it...not me, that's ridiculous. Every law abiding citizen carrying a pistol for protection cannot be compared to a grenade launcher....or a bomb or a nuke!
    why not? doesn't the second amendment give us the "right to bear arms"? It doesn't exclude machine guns or grenade launchers.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    Again, I have to comment that the scary part is when laws are passed where law abiding citizens can't carry protection, but criminals can! In other words, the criminals don't pay attention to laws....they are CRIMINALS!
    Agreed with that - I don't advocate total gun control. But the question is how do you prevent criminals (or even would-be criminals) from either legally or illegally getting guns?
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  20. cardio's Avatar
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    It is scary when dumb people carry guns (and I was not refering to you).
    Having been in the ROTC myself I can also handle a number of guns - and have pretty good sharpshooting skills.

    But I've seen situations where people get into an argument - and then pull a gun. Or where road rage leads to people brandishing (or worse firing) guns while in their car. And we're not talking about criminals here - just plain dumb people who think that they can settle something by pulling a gun.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating total gun control. But there must be some way to prevent (or better still take away) guns in the hands of criminals and dumb people.
    I've seen dumb people use their car as a weapon. A very high profile sports figure recently used his car as a weapon.
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