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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    What I am saying that the extreme left wing controls the Democratic party, that they want to see America fail in Iraq, and that they see the death of every American soldier as a step toward achieving that goal.

    Can I make it any more plain?
    I think only an insignificant minority, even in Europe, would want to see the US fail. You are making this up. Maybe this is how you would react if you had not agreed with the reasons for this war and how it was handled, I can't see why else you are so persuaded that those who did not share Bush's views and plans want to see defeat.
    On another note, there have been revelations about prisoner abuse involving physical beatings, starvation, dogs, exposure to extreme cold, the whole nine yards. Unforunately it was performed by the Swiss against American internees during WWII.
    What's the point? You can't handle Iraq, so you have to bring up other topics, totally unrelated to this thread? I take it as a sign of helplessness.

    However, in case you are interested: I don't blindly support everything any Swiss ever did, neither the private deeds, nor the actions of past and present governments. I condemn wrong also in the case of American internees during WWII, whatever may have happened in the cases you mentioned.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  2. #102  
    Quote:
    By: 1911sforever at Today 05:19 AM

    "Class War Anarchist=Communist=Socialist=Left Wing Democrat that would like to see soldiers kill their leaders=someone who rejoices at the death of an American soldier."

    Your POV couldn't be more wrong. I'm a staunch left-wing democrat. I also love my country and her soldiers more than words can say. Try again.
    Visor-->Visor Phone-->Treo 180-->Treo 270-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 755P-->Centro-->Pre+-->Pre 2
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Since you are talking about just American casualties below, I believe your source for that number is wrong: http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

    Even adding in British figures doesn't get close to yours. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3847051.stm

    Where are you sourcing these figures?
    But then again I heard the 1800 figure on the radio this morning. So who knows for sure?
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but I admire our troops, their unselifish sacrifice, their service to our country, while at the same time, I feel that the policy they serve is deeply flawed.

    You are trying to say I am unpatriotic if I do not support the President's policies in Iraq? If that is the argument you are making, then I guess I just have to disagree.
    No....not at all.... What I was trying to say, it doesn't matter if you disagree with every single action that the Bush Admin has done, including Iraq.......and still recognize the good things that the troops on the ground are doing with the situation that they had nothing to with in the first place.

    In other words...you can disagree with Bush and recognize that the soldiers captured 40 terrorist that day. You can disagree with Bush, and recognize that they established electricity to a town that has never had it before, or improved the medical response in an area that has never had a fully functional hospital, or appreciate that a unit of soldiers are training teachers, etc.....

    In other words, say whatever you want about Bush, but don't deny the individual Soldier their due they have personally earned in the situation given to them that is beyond their control.

    IMHO, it is not Un-American to not agree with Bush....I have peronsally disagreed with a lot of Presidents or certain % of their policies. But do think it is Un-American to deny recognition of the individual Soldiers great accomplishments simply because you don't agree with the President.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 08/15/2005 at 10:02 PM.
  5. #105  
    I'm goin' with Hobbes on this one. I may not agree with everything that the Bush administration does, but I support him none-the-less. Regardless though if I supported Bush or not, those men and women fighting and protecting deserve our support. They deserve our encouragement, our adoration, our respect...they are the ones who protect our freedoms. While some left wing democratic hyprocrits would like you to believe it takes a political peacefulness and patience to maintain freedom, I couldn't believe any farther from that truth. It takes blood sometimes, it takes sacrifice sometimes, it takes heroism sometimes. Our soldiers deserve our salute to them, because without them we may not be where we are today.

    And for the record....I lost a very close friend last week who was hit by a bomb blast while driving his men. He was a Staff Sgt. and a member of G Company of the 2nd Battalion, 24th Marines Regiment, 1st Marine Division. He was laid to rest 9 months after that bomb blast ripped through his skull and cause massive head wounds. Our doctors did all they could, but in the end, he suffered for way too long, and I salute him for his bravery and determination. May he rest in peace, Staff Sgt. Chad Simon.
    The only thing that separates the men from the boys...is the lessons they learn.
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  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Look, you all seem to be pretty angry about this thread. This thread was started with the purpose of bring the deaths of our military to light. You won't get to see these types of things on TV, read about them in the newspaper, or hear it on the radio. I started this thread for a real look at what america is sacrificing. I am sorry if I offended any of you. This thread was not started for political purposes, it was started to make some aware of what prices we are really paying and to motivate some of you to do something, be it sending care packages, talking about it maybe even getting involved at some level. Again sorry if I offended any of you.

    P.S. If these deaths make you angry you shouldn't be directing it at me.
    Won't see them on TV? I see them every day. I read about it every day. What makes you think that if you don't post them we don't see them?

    Pamela
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  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by millsda2
    I'm goin' with Hobbes on this one. I may not agree with everything that the Bush administration does, but I support him none-the-less.
    Hear, hear! It's been said over and over, but I wonder how many really care - that a divided country is not a strong country. I'd rather put our differences aside and fight the war against terror together than to let everyone outside us see everyone in such a tug of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by millsda2
    Regardless though if I supported Bush or not, those men and women fighting and protecting deserve our support. They deserve our encouragement, our adoration, our respect...they are the ones who protect our freedoms. While some left wing democratic hyprocrits would like you to believe it takes a political peacefulness and patience to maintain freedom, I couldn't believe any farther from that truth. It takes blood sometimes, it takes sacrifice sometimes, it takes heroism sometimes. Our soldiers deserve our salute to them, because without them we may not be where we are today.
    EXACTLY. I wonder how many people TRULY honor them? Whenever I see a soldier in uniform, no matter where I am, I just look at him/her and say, "Thank You." That's it, no conversation, just a simple thank you and it's from my heart. And they do seem to appreciate it. I don't care if they're a desk clerk at a local depot, they deserve a thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by millsda2
    And for the record....I lost a very close friend last week who was hit by a bomb blast while driving his men. He was a Staff Sgt. and a member of G Company of the 2nd Battalion, 24th Marines Regiment, 1st Marine Division. He was laid to rest 9 months after that bomb blast ripped through his skull and cause massive head wounds. Our doctors did all they could, but in the end, he suffered for way too long, and I salute him for his bravery and determination. May he rest in peace, Staff Sgt. Chad Simon.
    Sorry for your loss, and or our country's loss. May he rest in peace.

    Pamela
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  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Hear, hear! It's been said over and over, but I wonder how many really care - that a divided country is not a strong country. I'd rather put our differences aside and fight the war against terror together than to let everyone outside us see everyone in such a tug of war.
    The division is not because of the differences of opinion - it is because of the kind of despicable and virulent tirade that we saw from 1911sforever here - anyone who dares question the administration is equated to a traitor or as a terrorist-sympathizer.

    EXACTLY. I wonder how many people TRULY honor them? Whenever I see a soldier in uniform, no matter where I am, I just look at him/her and say, "Thank You." That's it, no conversation, just a simple thank you and it's from my heart. And they do seem to appreciate it. I don't care if they're a desk clerk at a local depot, they deserve a thanks.
    Again - nobody here has ever questioned our soldiers in any way. And it should not be a contest about who can beat their chests the loudest to demonstrate their "true" support. And those who question the war should not be automatically labeled as dishonoring the soldiers (or worse, as 1911sforever has done - accuse them of hoping for their deaths!)

    I did disagree with NRG earlier about this thread's attempt to "honor" our fallen - citing death stats is not a way to honor them (at least that's my opinion). Having close family and friends right now in the midst of the fighting, I have a very strong and vested interest in their safe return. And I do question the reasons we went to war in Iraq, but not the one in Afganistan.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
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  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    The division is not because of the differences of opinion - it is because of the kind of despicable and virulent tirade that we saw from 1911sforever here - anyone who dares question the administration is equated to a traitor or as a terrorist-sympathizer.
    While I don't agree with that analogy, I do think many of the protestors against the administration take things a little too far. This goes both ways. A difference of opinion is one thing, groups showing pictures of soldiers and comparing them to sheep be herded to slaughter is quite another. You can disagree with the war and still be a true American. But when you lead rallies of people to cheer on how much America sucks, that just makes the entire country look like a weak target.

    I'm not saying the government need control our feelings or even our speeches about what we believe in. But just the same, Americans should bond together in certain respects. Nothing changes the fact that we are fighting wars and need to support our country.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Again - nobody here has ever questioned our soldiers in any way. And it should not be a contest about who can beat their chests the loudest to demonstrate their "true" support.
    Hope you weren't referring to me. I certainly wasn't "beating my chest" about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    And those who question the war should not be automatically labeled as dishonoring the soldiers (or worse, as 1911sforever has done - accuse them of hoping for their deaths!)
    You're right, but there are several posts that do just that. Take the focus off the soldier (i.e. in an memorial about one or many) and turn it right back into political rants. To attempt to put them on a different pedestal - as a poster child for all things our government does badly, is a disgrace. They should simply be honored.

    Want to talk about needless deaths? Names need not be given.

    Pamela
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  10. NRG
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       #110  
    Army Spc. Brian K. Derks

    21, of White Cloud, Minn.; assigned to the 2nd Squadron, 11th Armored Calvary Regiment, Fort Irwin, Calif.; killed Aug. 13 when an improvised explosive device detonated while he was on mounted patrol in Baghdad.

    Died: August 13, 2005

    http://www.militarycity.com/valor/1034341.html
  11. NRG
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       #111  
    Army Spc. Toccara R. Green

    23, of Rosedale, Md.; assigned to the 57th Transportation Company, 548th Corps Support Battalion, Fort Drum, N.Y.; killed Aug. 14 when multiple improvised explosive devices detonated near her unit during convoy operations in Asad, Iraq.

    Died: August 14, 2005

    http://www.militarycity.com/valor/1034808.html
  12. NRG
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       #112  
    Army Sgt. Shannon D. Taylor

    30, of Smithville, Tenn.; assigned to the 3rd Squadron, 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment, Tennessee Army National Guard, McMinnville, Tenn.; died Aug. 14 in Tuz, Iraq, of injuries sustained Aug. 13 when his Humvee came under attack by enemy forces using rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire in Tuz, Iraq. Also killed were Staff Sgt. Asbury F. Hawn II and Spc. Gary L. Reese Jr.

    Died: August 14, 2005

    http://www.militarycity.com/valor/1035170.html
  13. NRG
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       #113  
    Army Spc. Gary L. Reese Jr.

    22, of Ashland City, Tenn.; assigned to the 3rd Squadron, 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment, Tennessee Army National Guard, McMinnville, Tenn.; died Aug. 14 in Tuz, Iraq, of injuries sustained Aug. 13 when his Humvee came under attack by enemy forces using rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire in Tuz, Iraq. Also killed were Staff Sgt. Asbury F. Hawn II and Sgt. Shannon D. Taylor.



    Died: August 14, 2005

    http://www.militarycity.com/valor/1035172.html
  14. NRG
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       #114  
    Army Staff Sgt. Asbury F. Hawn II

    35, of Lebanon, Tenn.; assigned to the 3rd Squadron, 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment, Tennessee Army National Guard, McMinnville, Tenn.; died Aug. 14 in Tuz, Iraq, of injuries sustained Aug. 13 when his Humvee came under attack by enemy forces using rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire in Tuz, Iraq. Also killed were Spc. Gary L. Reese Jr. and Sgt. Shannon D. Taylor.



    Died: August 14, 2005

    http://www.militarycity.com/valor/1035175.html
  15. #115  
    Pamela - no none of it was directed against you. And to be quite honest I have not seen the kind of things that you've described - and if so, I'm sure that it is an extremely small minority who do those kind of stupid stuff (my excuse is that I don't watch TV). And I do agree with you - it is disgraceful that there are those who turn the deaths of these soldiers into a political football.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
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  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I think only an insignificant minority, even in Europe, would want to see the US fail. You are making this up. Maybe this is how you would react if you had not agreed with the reasons for this war and how it was handled, I can't see why else you are so persuaded that those who did not share Bush's views and plans want to see defeat.
    What's the point? You can't handle Iraq, so you have to bring up other topics, totally unrelated to this thread? I take it as a sign of helplessness.

    However, in case you are interested: I don't blindly support everything any Swiss ever did, neither the private deeds, nor the actions of past and present governments. I condemn wrong also in the case of American internees during WWII, whatever may have happened in the cases you mentioned.

    I can handle Iraq. What I can't handle is insufferable eurosnobs who sit in the cheap seats and point out where the strong stumble.
  17. NRG
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       #117  
    Marine 2nd Lt. Therrel S. Childers

    30, of Harrison County, Miss.; assigned to the 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.; killed in action in Sothern Iraq.

    Died: March 21, 2003


    Childers honored by The Citadel

    Associated Press

    POWELL, Wyo. — A fallen Marine with ties to Wyoming was honored by his alma mater, The Citadel, with a parade and memorial service.

    Second Lt. Therrel Childers, 30, whose parents live in Powell, died March 21 after being shot in the abdomen in an assault on a pumping station in Iraq. He was the first American casualty in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

    Childers’ father, Joe, and brother, Sam, attended a memorial service at the South Carolina university in late October, at which the Citadel Chorale sang and a list of Citadel alumni who died in the past year was read.

    The two also attended a parade honoring Shane’s memory and met several Marines who attended class with him. Childers went to The Citadel as part of the Marine Enlisted Continuing Education Program.

    “He’s still spoken of,” the elder Childers said. “He made an impression. It was good to be there and good to spend time with them.”

    -snip-

    — Associated Press
    Last edited by NRG; 08/16/2005 at 04:25 PM.
  18. NRG
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       #118  
    Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez

    22, of Los Angeles; assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.; killed in action in Southern Iraq.

    Died: March 21, 2003



    By Martin Kasindorf
    USA Today

    LOS ANGELES — One of the first U.S. servicemen killed in combat in Iraq was not a citizen of the country for which he sacrificed his life.

    Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, 22, a rifleman with the Marines, died in a firefight March 21 near Umm Qasr.

    Born in Guatemala, Gutierrez held permanent U.S. resident status, which he obtained in 1999.

    At 14, with his parents dead, Gutierrez followed the path of 700,000 of his countrymen to California. He made the 2,000-mile journey from his Guatemala City neighborhood without entry papers. He hopped 14 freight trains to get through Mexico. U.S. immigration authorities detained him.

    Fernando Castillo, Guatemala’s consul general in Los Angeles, says the United States doesn’t deport Guatemalan minors who arrive without family. Gutierrez was made a ward of Los Angeles Juvenile Court. He was placed in a series of group homes and foster families. He learned English and finished high school.

    -snip-

    _ The Associated Press contributed to this report


    Guatemalan family remembers fallen son

    GUATEMALA CITY — When Engracia Sirin Gutierrez heard the pounding at the front door, she knew it had to be bad news.

    It was 2:30 a.m. Saturday, March 22, and a group of six officials, including John Hamilton, the U.S. ambassador to Guatemala, had arrived to tell her that her brother had been killed in the fighting in Iraq.

    On Friday, Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, 22, became one of the first combat casualties of the war, killed in battle around the port city of Umm Qasr.

    “It was difficult to believe,” Sirin said March 25. “I thought it was a mistake.”

    -snip-


    — Sergio DeLeon, Associated Press

    http://www.militarycity.com/valor/256506.html
    Last edited by NRG; 08/16/2005 at 04:27 PM.
  19. NRG
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       #119  
    Army Reserve Spc. Brandon S. Tobler

    19, of Portland, Ore.; assigned to the 671st Engineer Brigade, Portland; killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq.



    By Patrick McMahon
    USA Today

    Before Army Reserve Spc. Brandon Tobler, 19, left home for the war in Iraq, he told his mother, “Don’t worry, Mom, I’ll be in the rear with the gear.”

    The 19-year-old logistics specialist from Portland, Ore., was killed in a vehicle accident on the night of March 22 during a sandstorm in southern Iraq, his uncle, Scott Tom, said Monday. “He was in a military convoy when a sudden storm came up.”

    Tom said his nephew was riding in a Humvee when it crashed into the back of another vehicle.

    “I want people to know he was truly a hero. He was really motivated to go over there and help,” his uncle said. “And he paid the price. He is an only child, and his parents are devastated.”

    -snip-

    Died:
    March 22, 2003


    http://www.militarycity.com/valor/256494.html
    Last edited by NRG; 08/16/2005 at 04:27 PM.
  20. NRG
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       #120  
    Marine Lance Cpl. Eric J. Orlowski

    26, of Buffalo, N.Y.; assigned to the 2nd Tank Battalion, 2nd Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, N.C.; killed in a machine-gun accident in Iraq.


    Lance Cpl. Eric Orlowski was a proud Marine, but above all he was a proud father of his 3-year-old daughter, CamerynLee. “He was always there for his daughter, and he loved her more than anything,” said Nicole Kross, the child’s mother, herself an Air Force Reservist.

    -snip-


    — Associated Press


    Died:
    March 22, 2003


    http://www.militarycity.com/valor/256499.html
    Last edited by NRG; 08/16/2005 at 04:28 PM.
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