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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    You attacked. You quoted BARYE and attacked an imaginary point. It's that simple.

    If you didn't want to address his points, you shouldn't quote his post. Do your own post and let your arguments stand on their own.

    You pulled the same stunt again when you said I defended BARYE's point of view. I said nothing about his point of view.

    As to the map, you couldn't draw a map with tracing paper.
    Do me a fav, genius. Since you seem to know more about what I said than I do, go ahead and highlight for all of us in this thread exactly where I attacked BARYE anywhere. Since I doubt you can use the back button or search function, here it is:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...1&postcount=18

    As far as you not defending BARYE:

    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    I've seen enough people attacking straw men, and I'm tired of it.
    Looks like you're running to the rescue to me.

    And for where you can stick it, if you're using tracing paper, that's your problem. You're using the wrong stuff.
    I'm back!
  2.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    I was never told that....when I joined I was told that under times of war, the president is my commander-in-chief and in times of peacetime, it was the Governer. Seems to make sense that if we went to war and the president needed combat engineers, then I was going over.

    These folks were either lied to or made BAD assumptions.
    Thanks for the info. That sounded incorrect, but not being in the military I wasn't certain.
  3. #63  
    Man.....I could feel the tension of this thread before I turned on the computer.
  4. #64  
    Everyone was playing nice until jstpa lost touch with reality.
    I'm back!
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Uh oh.

    Children, let's not get ugly.....
  6. #66  
    Nice use of a new smiley!
    I'm back!
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    I was never told that....when I joined I was told that under times of war, the president is my commander-in-chief and in times of peacetime, it was the Governer. Seems to make sense that if we went to war and the president needed combat engineers, then I was going over.

    These folks were either lied to or made BAD assumptions.
    It's a bit of both - let's say that recruiters use "leading" statements (only verbally fo course, none of this stuff is in the written consent forms). Sad to say that my brother-in-law was part of this - though he stopped helping the recruiters once he entered Ranger school.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Man.....I could feel the tension of this thread before I turned on the computer.
    I think it's the anxiety about the new upcoming Treo 670
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    I think it's the anxiety about the new upcoming Treo 670
    No way, I'm excited to see a WM 2005 vs Cobalt showdown!
    I'm back!
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    No way, I'm excited to see a WM 2005 vs Cobalt showdown!
    So when is Cobalt scheduled to be releasednow? Q4 2012?

    I agree though I am looking forward to it as well.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    It's a bit of both - let's say that recruiters use "leading" statements (only verbally fo course, none of this stuff is in the written consent forms). Sad to say that my brother-in-law was part of this - though he stopped helping the recruiters once he entered Ranger school.
    I do have to say that I have had some recruiters tell me some whoppers! Like:

    • Go ahead and stretch the truth if you have to to get pass the physical. It's not that big of deal.
    • Haven't decided yet? No problem, all we have to do is sign you up. You can even go down and get sworn in and you can even get on the plane to go to Boot Camp. And at the airport there, you decide it is not for you, no problem. Just come home. The worst is that you would be responsible for the plane ticket back.
    • If you join the Guard, our theater is in Korea. You will never go anywhere, because nothing ever happens over there. And since we only have Korea, if anything else happens anywhere else, you don't have worry about it because they cann't call on us


    This is no joke and no exag! And this was back in the 92 when there was no pressure for new recruits.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    So when is Cobalt scheduled to be releasednow? Q4 2012?

    I agree though I am looking forward to it as well.
    You think it will be that soon?

    I'm not necessarily looking forward to it (it's taken Palm like 10 years to get Garnet almost right, I can't imagine how buggy Cobalt will be), but I would like a WM2005 vs Cobalt choice in the Treo 700.
    I'm back!
  13. #73  
    Barye: normally I on your side of the fence but a couple things stood out that I wanted to mention:

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I see them and I think that I am responsible for what happened to that man.
    We all are responsible. We all share the burden of being in a country and living under an umbrella of freedom that requires sacrfice. When that sacrifice is made (regardless of the reasons/motivations) then we should feel guilty because we should really never want to see our service men being killed.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    We didn’t vote in enough numbers. In Florida we weren’t smart enough to vote on the proper lines, to use enough force to puncture chads.
    This really isnt about Florida. It's at least *arguable* that at some point, even if Kerry had won, that we may have been going into Iraq. Would it have been different, maybe, but the point is that Sadaam wasnt going to go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    The truth was they wanted power much more than Gore –- and felt preordained by god to grab it. And they came to power absolutely determined to dispose of Saddam.
    Pre-ordained by God ?<--I don't think this leads any credibility to your argument. How do we know what the Pres. felt? What do you base this statement on? I understand that the Pres. is religious and he has stated that he prays about at least some of the decisions he makes (and this makes many people uncomfortable) but how does it show that he was (or thinks) that he is pre-ordained by God.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Many of the Senate 77 no doubt persuaded themselves that junior was telling the truth when he promised that the "war vote" was only to get Saddam to cooperate. That he'd do everything possible to avoid a war.
    Whether or not the Pres. thought the intelligence was right or not, I am still unconvinced either way. However, I do think he still could have waited at least a little while longer before invading. Not all of the senators were able to be included with all the intelligence briefings and such that the Pres., Chief of Staff, Sec of Def, etc. are privy to. They had to rely on the information given them. And there were a lot of political pressure to remain "American" during this time. Do I think it was right to make the decision to go to war due to politics...No. But, you do have to recognize it and to put it into context.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Others genuinely bought into the “fixed” intelligence.
    I think the best you can say is that *some of the evidence is contradictory to other intel and it should have been questioned more fully.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    This war was invented by people blinded by an arrogant but naive ideology. This war was contrived by men unlearned in history but confident within their ignorance. Strutting around with his phoney Texas swagger, their leader knew better than all the pointed headed liberal intellectuals -– or even daddy's friends, who told him otherwise.
    Barye: this seems to be 100% your opinion. If it is...fine. If it is not...then how do you 'know' these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    That's why trusting patriotic young people are being wheeled around my local supermarket.
    I actually think it is because these men put their country before themselves and deserve the very best that we can give them for their sacrifice.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    That's why that poor woman mourns outside the ranch of our vacationing POTUS.
    She grieves and arguably she doesnt understand why her son made the ultimate sacrifice for his country. I am not sure that the Pres. can give her an answer to her question that will satisfy her. I mean what is her question? "Why did my son have to die in a war in Iraq?" Maybe it's because wars have casualties, he volunteered knowing those circumstances and (arguably) Sadaam was supporting terrorism and removing him goes toward the goal of fighting terrorism and supporting Democracy.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by winginit
    Points:

    1. Grieving mothers and fathers have a right to grieve their loss. When they do so publically to hype an ideological agenda....shame on them. When the press hypes those stories because it fits their ideological agenda and is drama filled....shame on them.
    Are you saying that is what this woman is doing? I'm not so sure...even if it appears that way, how people grieve (and how they 'should') is difficult to determine.
    Quote Originally Posted by winginit
    2. Every western country's intelligence came to the same conclusion we did (yes, even France!). Saddam is gone and his machine is being dismantled. Tears shed? I don't think so.
    No argument that Sadaam was bad...whether we should have been focusing on him instead of AQ or even Iran is a different point altogether.
    Quote Originally Posted by winginit
    3. Liberals love to pontificate while offerring no hint of alternatives or strategies other than letting the corrupt U.N. "solve" things. You remember them, no? Sure you do, their the ones that have Syria, Libya, and other tyranical dictatorships runninng the U.N. Human Right Commission. Their the ones who stood idly by and watched 800,000 Tutsi Africans slaughtered with machetes in less than 100 days. Yeah, they got their crap wired all right.
    Just so I understand your point...are you saying that I shouldnt speak out on an issue UNLESS I can offer a valid suggestion? If that is how you feel, then I might point out that having that type of requirement might stifle not just free speech but innovation in general because most new ideas begin with a hypothesis or explanation...without having yet a solution.

    As far as the U.N...yeah it has problems. But just because it makes mistakes in one area doesnt mean it AUTOMATICALLY makes mistakes in other areas and that it then becomes completely useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by winginit
    4. The first and foremost job of every elected official is to keep America safe. Everything else is way down the list. Can we make errors, sure. But if errors are going to be made, error on the side of America. Woot to GW and any elected official who figured that out - Democrat or Republican.
    I agree that safety is very important. The argument then moves to is it really making the U.S. safer by occupying Iraq, giving 'energy' to the insurgents to relocate there, and then do very little when other threats come up like China and Iran?
    Quote Originally Posted by winginit
    5. God Bless the Marines and the United States of America!!
    Ooh Rah Devil Dog!
    Quote Originally Posted by winginit
    "Not so lean, not so mean, but still a Marine." 1980-1985
    I like that.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    As far as the U.N...yeah it has problems. But just because it makes mistakes in one area doesnt mean it AUTOMATICALLY makes mistakes in other areas and that it then becomes completely useless.
    What has the UN done right??
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  16. #76  
    The do a good job at taking bribes!
  17. #77  
    They did some magnificent work in Rwanda, too. Sudan is another of their success stories.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    What has the UN done right??
    I am not an expert on the U.N. With what I posted, I didn't need to make the argument that they do something right but rather that they CANT be doing everything wrong.

    Do you not think that they do any of the things that are set out on the Purpose:
    The purposes of the United Nations, as set forth in the Charter, are to maintain international peace and security; to develop friendly relations among nations; to cooperate in solving international economic, social, cultural and humanitarian problems and in promoting respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms; and to be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in attaining these ends.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Do you not think that they do any of the things that are set out on the Purpose:
    The purposes of the United Nations, as set forth in the Charter, are to maintain international peace and security; to develop friendly relations among nations; to cooperate in solving international economic, social, cultural and humanitarian problems and in promoting respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms; and to be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in attaining these ends.
    No. Do you??
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I didn't need to make the argument that they do something right but rather that they CANT be doing everything wrong.
    That is a classic quote. I am going to use that for all sorts of arguments! I love it! .....seriously I do!
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