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  1. #281  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Again, agree with listening to critics, looking for better ideas, seeking support but do you see many valid ideas, or support posted here or in the individual peace crusade that started this post. I do not.
    Cardio..its nice when someone complains that they also offer up an alternative...however that is not a prerequisite. That's my point.

    I have offered up other suggestions (I think Hobbes started the thread).
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    #282  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I respond to your questions, and I admit my prejudice -- where are the answers to my questions ?? where do you all admit to not having an open mind ?? where is your willingness to concede the junior's stupidity etc. ??
    I think all of your actual questions were answered. You do not like the answer so you ignore them. You disagree so you resort to name calling.
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    #283  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Cardio..its nice when someone complains that they also offer up an alternative...however that is not a prerequisite. That's my point.

    I have offered up other suggestions (I think Hobbes started the thread).
    right, alternatives are not a prerequisite, however it makes an argument much more valid.

    I was referring to Mrs Shehann's crusade as for the comment on strated the post.

    I much prefer to debate subjects with someone who does not need to resort to name calling to defend themselves and their political agenda.
  4. #284  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    As military, do you feel it should be a requirement that a politician serve the military?
    Sorry, had to scroll back a page to find you. Requirement to serve IN the military, or serve the military? I do not think serving should be a requirement. Since we are supposed to be a Govenment "by the people, for the people." Not everyone has served. Most haven't served in fact.

    Seems almost un-Constitutional to have that, in the same way I feel a Draft to be un-Constitutional.

    However I think they should serve the military with the best possible equipment, training and benefits possible. If a serviceman is wounded, he should have the best possible care and treatment, for as long as he needs it. I oppose Welfare, but would gladly support taxes for this.
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  5. #285  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    But you respond to the questions with the same answers only with your slant on them.

    Bush dodged combat, but Clinton was broadening his horizons so that he could better serve down the road.

    Gore claimed he invented the Internet, but Quayle's a moron because he misspelled "potato".

    I normally find some (definitely not most, but some) of your arguments to be compelling and well thought out, but now that I know they're just a cover for blind prejudice, there's no point in discussing these things with you.

    How is your blind prejudice more enlightened ??

    Is it not more honest and revelotory to be open and self aware ??

    (now my beliefs are hard core -- but at least I can respect that yours may be as well -- even if they are wrong ! )

    And BTW -- the people who actually invented the internet recently gave Gore a major award in apreciation of the VERY IMPORTANT contribution he played in what has become the playground of us all ...
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    #286  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Sorry, had to scroll back a page to find you. Requirement to serve IN the military, or serve the military? I do not think serving should be a requirement. Since we are supposed to be a Govenment "by the people, for the people." Not everyone has served. Most haven't served in fact.

    Seems almost un-Constitutional to have that, in the same way I feel a Draft to be un-Constitutional.

    However I think they should serve the military with the best possible equipment, training and benefits possible. If a serviceman is wounded, he should have the best possible care and treatment, for as long as he needs it. I oppose Welfare, but would gladly support taxes for this.

    1 vote for insertion for president
  7. #287  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    However I think they should serve the military with the best possible equipment, training and benefits possible. If a serviceman is wounded, he should have the best possible care and treatment, for as long as he needs it. I oppose Welfare, but would gladly support taxes for this.
    I agree - it was shameful how we treated out Vietnam vets.

    But on the other hand the pendulum has swung to the other extreme, where it is considered politically incorrect to even question the basis of the war in Iraq because it is seen as being diparaging to our soldiers in the midst of action.

    .
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  8. #288  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    I don't care about partisan politics myself (obviously that's an alien concept here!).
    I agree. Where are you from? I think I've read it but cannot remember.

    Bush Sr. did the right thing in rapidly deploying a (willing) International Coalition to push Saddam out of Kuwait and also effectively defanging him. The criticism (mostly from the left-wing strangely enough) at that time, that he did not go far enough and actually remove Saddam altogether was unjustified in my opinion.
    good example of partisan politics.

    Clinton didn't really do any follow-up on the situation - but perhaps he was distracted by his efforts to broker a historic (and failed) peace agreement between Israel and Palestine. This is not an excuse for Clinton, though I think he could have been more aggressive on pursing the Al Qaeda threat that was beginning to emerge.
    Agree.

    However I do not agree that GWB did the right thing by going after Saddam for several reasons:

    We broke two hundred years of our traditional policy with an unprovoked military strike (regardless of the reason)
    Maybe true, but this is truely debatable as we have never faced a post 9/11 enviroment when our enemy is not a nation but supported by other nations.
    We did not keep our eye on the ball - our focus was on combating terror - and we allowed bin Ladin to slip away and regroup in Pakistan when we got distracted by Iraq.
    I have always been open to discussion on the timing of Iraq. I certainly feel he was going to be taken care of, but the timing is a question open to debate for me.
    The urgency of WMDs was more obvious outside Iraq - in countries like Pakistan (which was busy supplying nuclear know-how to islamic countries even as we prepared for Iraq), NKorea and Iran (which admitted to nuclear capability, and were far more openly hostile to US than Iraq)
    I have answer this concerning threat of Iraq vs other NK, Syria, ect... here:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...6&postcount=47
    And
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...5&postcount=49

    As far as Iran nuke program threat vs Iraq possible threats, I pointed out here that the timing of events does not hold strong for that argument:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...6&postcount=50

    There was no consensus among the intel that Saddam was an actual threat to US, even though they were wrong about his WMD capabilities.
    Here is my point of view of that:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=202

    And finally a President has to accept responsibility for his decisions - blaming faulty intel does not get him off the hook.
    I agree that the Pres needs to be accountable for decisions made with the knowledge at hand at the time. Just as illuded to that Clinton needs to be held accountable for not persuing AQ with several attacks against us during his Admin. And for giving OBL up when offered.

    As far as bad intel...this is something that I have never questioned. There are several accounts of bad intel given to the Pres, to Blixt, to Congress Committees. But that needs to be addressed and those responsible for that being held responsible.

    One good thing Bush has done, is acted on the fact that we had bad intel that lead to 9/11, several elements of he Iraq situation, etc.... and had attempted to remap our whole intel community to help prevent that from happening again.
    I think the problem is that most people (and sad to say, it is no different here on TC) have their heads so far up their partisan *sses that they either blindly defend or blame their respective positions.
    I agree, but there are some exceptions for example t2gungho and I have had some good discussions and willing to acknowledge points that from differring views, if not even accept them when presented with viable cite, reasoning, and productive debate.
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    #289  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    How is your blind prejudice more enlightened ??

    Is it not more honest and revelotory to be open and self aware ??

    (now my beliefs are hard core -- but at least I can respect that yours may be as well -- even if they are wrong ! )

    And BTW -- the people who actually invented the internet recently gave Gore a major award in apreciation of the VERY IMPORTANT contribution he played in what has become the playground of us all ...
    Inventing the internet is a VERY IMPORTANT contribution. Wonder why address' are WWW
  10. #290  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I think all of your actual questions were answered. You do not like the answer so you ignore them. You disagree so you resort to name calling.
    where were my questions answered , and how is this name calling: ??

    "that's a generalization that's a dodge for an answer -- "


    (btw -- I inadvertently left the "a" out before "dodge" and edited in back in -- is that what you were referencing ??)
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  11.    #291  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    And BTW -- the people who actually invented the internet recently gave Gore a major award in apreciation of the VERY IMPORTANT contribution he played in what has become the playground of us all ...


    In a March 1999 interview with Wolf Blitzer, Gore said, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
  12. #292  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    all the more reason for not dismantling an existing infrastructure

    are you kidding (about losing power)???
    We kept a great deal of the infastructure in place. As far as power, yes.....during the actual war, until the very end as we closed in on Bagdad.....they had power a vast majority of the time, especially compared to other historical campaigns with similar goals to take a city.

    the british medical journal Lancet estimated that the number of Iraqi civilian deaths at approximately 150,000 since the start of the Iraq invasion. That is almost as many civilans (estimated at 200,000) who had died under Saddam over a 20 year period. So I do not know if this is a "good thing" that we did.
    I am talking about the invasion of Iraq and civilians killed by US forces during that time. The total you are quoting is the responsibility of their own kind (insurgents) and other arab foriegners (terrorists) targeting and killing civilians.

    The study was showing that the greater the major population suffers during the invasion phase, the easier and less killed during the rebuild phase. The easier it is on the major population during the invasion phase, the harder it is and more are killed during the rebuiding phase.

    Again just a study referenced in two sources, and probably holds no more meaning at this point in time as something to think about.
  13. #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man

    In a March 1999 interview with Wolf Blitzer, Gore said, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

    http://www.webbyawards.com/webbys/specialwin.php


    The Webby Lifetime Achievement Award: Former Vice President Al Gore

    Setting the record straight on one of recent history's most persistent political myths, The Webby Awards will present Former Vice President Al Gore with The Webby Lifetime Achievement Award in recognition of the pivotal role he has played in the development of the internet over the past three decades. Vint Cerf, widely credited as one of the "fathers of the internet," will present Vice President Gore with the award.
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  14. #294  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio


    Inventing the internet is a VERY IMPORTANT contribution. Wonder why address' are WWW
    a non-responsive response

    (no offense intended)
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    #295  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    where were my questions answered , and how is this name calling: ??

    "that's a generalization that's a dodge for an answer -- "


    (btw -- I inadvertently left the "a" out before "dodge" and edited in back in -- is that what you were referencing ??)
    I considered your use of the words iodiocy, coward, juniors stupiditiy, and even the term junior all name calling when you use them in referrenc to the adiminstration. There are lots of policies and procedures I disagree with from this and every administration, but let's give the position the respect it deserves.
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    #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    a non-responsive response

    (no offense intended)
    Sorry could'nt resist that one (hence the big grin)
  17.    #297  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I considered your use of the words iodiocy, coward, juniors stupiditiy, and even the term junior all name calling when you use them in referrenc to the adiminstration. There are lots of policies and procedures I disagree with from this and every administration, but let's give the position the respect it deserves.

    I love it when people refer to W as stupid. I don't care who your daddy is, you don't become President of the USA being dumb. Maybe he is dumb as a fox?
  18. #298  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    http://www.webbyawards.com/webbys/specialwin.php


    The Webby Lifetime Achievement Award: Former Vice President Al Gore

    Setting the record straight on one of recent history's most persistent political myths, The Webby Awards will present Former Vice President Al Gore with The Webby Lifetime Achievement Award in recognition of the pivotal role he has played in the development of the internet over the past three decades. Vint Cerf, widely credited as one of the "fathers of the internet," will present Vice President Gore with the award.
    Whoop Bam!
  19.    #299  
    btw, last post before I finally get back to work...The soldier mom changed her story on President Bush. She commended him on his great leadership in June 2004, then buried him this last week. I hope she gets the proper help she needs.
  20. #300  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I agree. Where are you from? I think I've read it but cannot remember.
    Based on the east coast - but travel all over the world on business.

    Maybe true, but this is truely debatable as we have never faced a post 9/11 enviroment when our enemy is not a nation but supported by other nations.
    there was no debate about going into Afganistan since there was a clear link with it supporting Al qaeda. But the link with Iraq was far more tenous than say the links with Pakistan, Syria, Saudi Arabia (after all bin ladin was a Saudi national) and so on.

    I have always been open to discussion on the timing of Iraq. I certainly feel he was going to be taken care of, but the timing is a question open to debate for me.
    the CIA had bin ladin within their reach but did not get tactical support to nab him. Now it is no longer a question of timing - we'll probably never catch him.
    I have answer this concerning threat of Iraq vs other NK, Syria, ect... here:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...6&postcount=47
    And
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...5&postcount=49

    As far as Iran nuke program threat vs Iraq possible threats, I pointed out here that the timing of events does not hold strong for that argument:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...6&postcount=50

    Here is my point of view of that:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/showpost.php?p=712290&postcount=20
    Our intel was "tasked" with focusing on Iraq and did not follow up on threats like Iran. And there was no issue of timeliness regarding Pakistan or N Korea since they already had nukes - but they were just ignored.

    I agree that the Pres needs to be accountable for decisions made with the knowledge at hand at the time.
    haven't seen that come GWB - it seems that he is untouchable.

    One good thing Bush has done, is acted on the fact that we had bad intel that lead to 9/11, several elements of he Iraq situation, etc.... and had attempted to remap our whole intel community to help prevent that from happening again.
    that came as a result of a bipartisan committee - GWB just acted on their recommendations
    I agree, but there are some exceptions for example t2gungho and I have had some good discussions and willing to acknowledge points that from differring views, if not even accept them when presented with viable cite, reasoning, and productive debate.
    true - and there are a few more like you, but it is unfortunate that the bomb-throwers swamp most of the bandwidth here
    Last edited by chillig35; 08/11/2005 at 03:39 PM.
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