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  1. #261  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Apparently not. Barye says Clinton felt guilty about going. When Barye read that, he really started to like Clinton.

    I said he felt guilty and conflicted about NOT going -- his letters confess that he opposed the war, thought it was wrong -- but wondered how he could expect someone less lucky than he, to have to risk being maimed in that sad sick stupid war.
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  2. cardio's Avatar
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    #262  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    As military, do you feel it should be a requirement that a politician serve the military?
    No not a requirement, however I do look at that when I vote. If there was a toss up between two military would push it over the top. I look at the total person, not repbulican or democrat or green party or whatever else is the flavor of the day.
  3. #263  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Didn't he say he "loathed the military"?

    He NEVER said this ---cite me a source --


    I believe it was wrongly reported that some minor peon said someting derisive to a uniformed officer -- NEVER clinton
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  4. #264  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    one had a conscience -- the other had the pose of having a conscience !!
    Man....can I borrow your Grinch Heart Magnifying Glass....that would be invaluable in negotiations with my job!!!!!!!!

    I don't usually stoop to flat out sarcasm, but this is a short sighted perspective that I feel would have to taint any other logical arguments on any subject related to Bush.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    viet nam Statistic:

    * National Guard: 6,140 served; 101 died. (out of 50,000)

    Texas Air National Gaurd: ZERO

    it was rank hypocrisy to avoid danger in a cause that you supported, while wanting others to endager themselves in your place.
    Yet again, BARYE, you take facts that we know now and pass judgement on the man as if he knew that then. I serious doubt the Bush had a crystal ball to see the internet page in the future with those stats in it. The fact was it was a time of war and he joined a Military Branch that had a chance of going, is honorable service....and to say otherwise is disrespecting EVERY OTHER MAN AND WOMEN WHO SERVED IN THE TEXAS NG DURING THAT TIME OF WAR, simply for political gain over one man you wish was not voted into office by the majority of Americans....twice (the second time with the largest popular vote in like 30 years)!
  5. #265  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Man you have an unbridaled pure, deep to the core, all consuming, wearing not only on your sleeve but also on your chest and forhead hatred towards ANYTHING that has to do with Bush. To the point of only seeing the negative stories and never able to even recognize a single good that has to do with Bush.

    This will likely be the most accurate statement I will read within this thread !!
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  6.    #266  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    He NEVER said this ---cite me a source --

    I believe it was wrongly reported that some minor peon said someting derisive to a uniformed officer -- NEVER clinton
    Agreed, I don't think Clinton ever said "loathed the military" in the context that he himself loathed it. Brokaw did say "Clinton loathed the military" on Hardball with Chris Matthews. Clinton actually wrote a letter ...
    Quote Originally Posted by CLINTON
    And that is where I am right now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing this too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give...
    However, the whole Clinton feeling so guilty is no reason to say he is more of a man than Bush. In fact, if anything he seems to be a pusswa. Again, as I'm typing away behind my keyboard 12,000 miles away from Iraq.
  7.    #267  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    This will likely be the most accurate statement I will read within this thread !!
    How's it working for you and your lib party?

    I'll tell ya, 8 years of Repub presidency and both sides of the house!
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    #268  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    This will likely be the most accurate statement I will read within this thread !!
    At least you can admit you are brainwashed and refuse to acquire more knowledge to make an informed choice
  9. #269  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    How's it working for you and your lib party?

    I'll tell ya, 8 years of Repub presidency and both sides of the house!

    during this time, to paraphrase ronny:

    is the country better off ?

    is the economy more diverified, more technologically in the van garde??

    is our deficit greater ??

    are we as a nation stronger, more able to resist our enemies ??

    is our currency stronger ??

    is the ecosystem of our nation and our planet healthier ??

    have average citizens become more poorer, and more and more distant economically from the super wealthy
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  10. #270  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    At least you can admit you are brainwashed and refuse to acquire more knowledge to make an informed choice
    Not to mention that in one statement, you managed to invalidate every argument you've made on this subject.

    The thread might as well be closed now, you're arguing with a wall.

    I'm back!
  11. #271  
    I respond to your questions, and I admit my prejudice -- where are the answers to my questions ?? where do you all admit to not having an open mind ?? where is your willingness to concede the junior's stupidity etc. ??
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  12. #272  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I dunno? Ask the Coalition of the Unwilling why it couldn't work.

    Who was more brutal? Did Milosovic take his battles to foreign soil like Hussein did twice? Use gas? I'm trying to follow Barye's thinking, but it just seems to be nothing more than EXTREME partisanship. That's fine, the Leaders of any party love this.

    But as I pointed out with Bush/Somalia (being against it) and Clinton/Iraq (supporting it), I'm not playing the "is it my guy in the Office, or theirs" game. Talk about kool-aid addict.
    I don't care about partisan politics myself (obviously that's an alien concept here!).
    Milosevic was probably more brutal from one perspective since his rate of "ethnic cleansing" was very rapid (and openly defiant) - so something needed to be done. Plus after the Rwanda experience - perhaps the major Western powers were a tad bit more sensitive.

    Bush Sr. did the right thing in rapidly deploying a (willing) International Coalition to push Saddam out of Kuwait and also effectively defanging him. The criticism (mostly from the left-wing strangely enough) at that time, that he did not go far enough and actually remove Saddam altogether was unjustified in my opinion. Clinton didn't really do any follow-up on the situation - but perhaps he was distracted by his efforts to broker a historic (and failed) peace agreement between Israel and Palestine. This is not an excuse for Clinton, though I think he could have been more aggressive on pursing the Al Qaeda threat that was beginning to emerge.
    However I do not agree that GWB did the right thing by going after Saddam for several reasons:

    • We broke two hundred years of our traditional policy with an unprovoked military strike (regardless of the reason)
    • We did not keep our eye on the ball - our focus was on combating terror - and we allowed bin Ladin to slip away and regroup in Pakistan when we got distracted by Iraq.
    • The urgency of WMDs was more obvious outside Iraq - in countries like Pakistan (which was busy supplying nuclear know-how to islamic countries even as we prepared for Iraq), NKorea and Iran (which admitted to nuclear capability, and were far more openly hostile to US than Iraq)
    • There was no consensus among the intel that Saddam was an actual threat to US, even though they were wrong about his WMD capabilities.
    • And finally a President has to accept responsibility for his decisions - blaming faulty intel does not get him off the hook.
    I think the problem is that most people (and sad to say, it is no different here on TC) have their heads so far up their partisan *sses that they either blindly defend or blame their respective positions.
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  13.    #273  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    during this time, to paraphrase ronny:
    Although these are tough times, we are very fortunate to have W in office right now. We are certainly better off than if one of his failed opponents had won.
  14. #274  
    Da.....look at all the Kool-Aid posts you could be making with Barye's claims....don't want you to miss so many chances to claim "Kool-Aid" to bring up the poll.
  15.    #275  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I respond to your questions, and I admit my prejudice -- where are the answers to my questions ?? where do you all admit to not having an open mind ?? where is your willingness to concede the junior's stupidity etc. ??
    Yale undergrad
    MBA at Harvard
    Stupid?
  16. #276  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Although these are tough times, we are very fortunate to have W in office right now. We are certainly better off than if one of his failed opponents had won.
    that's a generalization that's a dodge for an answer --
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/11/2005 at 02:24 PM.
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  17. #277  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Several reasons....mainly because they cannot be compared as far are regrouping the country afterwards. Civil was already going. Which means that there forces and a support structure for resistance and a already founded desire for change. This was then easily used to clean up the county following his downfall.
    all the more reason for not dismantling an existing infrastructure

    As a result the civilians rarely lost power.
    are you kidding???
    Historically speaking, they did not suffer in any significant amount. Which is a good thing. Which is what we wanted. Which is what we did.

    But as a result of that, it appears change comes harder and easier for resistant forces to recruit.

    Don't know the true validity of it, but I found it interesting to contemplate anyways.
    the british medical journal Lancet estimated that the number of Iraqi civilian deaths at approximately 150,000 since the start of the Iraq invasion. That is almost as many civilans (estimated at 200,000) who had died under Saddam over a 20 year period. So I do not know if this is a "good thing" that we did.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  18.    #278  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Da.....look at all the Kool-Aid posts you could be making with Barye's claims....don't want you to miss so many chances to claim "Kool-Aid" to bring up the poll.
    Man I love Kool-Aid!
  19. #279  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I respond to your questions, and I admit my prejudice -- where are the answers to my questions ?? where do you all admit to not having an open mind ?? where is your willingness to concede the junior's stupidity etc. ??
    But you respond to the questions with the same answers only with your slant on them.

    Bush dodged combat, but Clinton was broadening his horizons so that he could better serve down the road.

    Gore claimed he invented the Internet, but Quayle's a moron because he misspelled "potato".

    I normally find some (definitely not most, but some) of your arguments to be compelling and well thought out, but now that I know they're just a cover for blind prejudice, there's no point in discussing these things with you.
    I'm back!
  20.    #280  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    that's a generalization that's dodge for an answer --

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