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  1.    #241  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    CLinton used academic deferments -- but was conflicted by his having allowed poorer less advantaged to have to serve and die in his place.
    Not that I care, cause I have never had a problem with a politician that didn't serve (how can you have an opinion unless you served yourself ), but are you saying Clinton felt guilty?
  2.    #242  
    Wow, her own family agrees with my opinion that she is an embarrassment! Horrible they had to disclose they don't agree with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    LOOK AT THIS

    The family of American soldier Casey Sheehan, who was killed in Iraq on April 4, 2004, has broken its silence and spoken out against his mother Cindy Sheehan's anti-war vigil against George Bush held outside the president's Crawford, Texas ranch.

    The following email was received by the DRUDGE REPORT from Cherie Quarterolo, Casey's aunt and godmother:

    Our family has been so distressed by the recent activities of Cindy we are breaking our silence and we have collectively written a statement for release. Feel free to distribute it as you wish. Thanks Cherie

    In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue: Sheehan Family Statement:

    The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.

    Sincerely,

    Casey Sheehan's grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.


    nough said
  3. #243  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal

    Again, I am in no way claiming any dishonor to Kerry's service in Vietnam (though I question his actions once he returned home). I would question Clinton's conveniently timed vacation to Canada. Just as with Kerry, I would not discredit Bush service in the NG during a time of war.
    first:

    Clinton: no Canadian vacation - academic deferment while on a RHODES scholarship in ENGLAND !! (yes he was a RHODES scholar!!)
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  4. #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Not that I care, cause I have never had a problem with a politician that didn't serve (how can you have an opinion unless you served yourself ), but are you saying Clinton felt guilty?

    VERY much so -- find the letters he wrote back to his draft board -- that's when I became a supporter of his
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  5. #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Why? What possible threat or interest was a Civil War in a small European country to us? Even you think the ONLY REASON we went back to Iraq was for oil, at least that is a vital interest to our nations (and the worlds) economy, as so stated in the Carter Doctrine.

    There was less reason for us to be involved in Yugoslavia then Iraq, yet oddly you support it? Wouldn't have anything to do with the occupant of the White House during these times, would it??
    I think the reason was that there was clear evidence of "ethnic cleansing" happening on a large scale and there was a consensus among all nations that it needed to be stopped. I would say that we (USA) got involved because it was the right thing to do. The UN, of course, was unable to do much, so it was NATO that took the initiative. And I think it was a credit that the issues were resolved using a joint force and that a brutal dictator like Milosevic was ousted by a democratic process and is curently facing the war crimes tribunal. Why couldn't the same process have worked for Iraq?
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  6. #246  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    first:

    Clinton: no Canadian vacation - academic deferment while on a RHODES scholarship in ENGLAND !! (yes he was a RHODES scholar!!)
    I stand corrected......England.....not Canada.....Educational Draft Deferment....not vacation.

    And you are more angry about Bush SERVING in the National Guard of the US Armed Forces during a time of war than Clinton sitting behind a book in a foriegn country during the same time....why?
  7. #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    And neither did Kerry! He only served like 5 months of his year tour!

    Kerry completed his ENTIRE military committment -- the time he served in Viet Nam -- where he had voluteered to be shot at -- was abreviated because of the existing rules regarding how many times you had to be injured -- (even relatively minor injuries -- those were the rules for everyone)
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  8.    #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    VERY much so -- find the letters he wrote back to his draft board -- that's when I became a supporter of his
    What did they say?
  9.    #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I stand corrected......England.....not Canada.....Educational Draft Deferment....not vacation.

    And you are more angry about Bush SERVING in the National Guard of the US Armed Forces during a time of war than Clinton sitting behind a book in a foriegn country during the same time....why?
    The difference is Bush didn't feel guilty about not serving in Vietnam like Clinton did.
  10.    #250  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Kerry completed his ENTIRE military committment -- the time he served in Viet Nam -- where he had voluteered to be shot at -- was abreviated because of the existing rules regarding how many times you had to be injured -- (even relatively minor injuries -- those were the rules for everyone)
    Both completed their military requirement...period.
  11. #251  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I stand corrected......England.....not Canada.....Educational Draft Deferment....not vacation.

    And you are more angry about Bush SERVING in the National Guard of the US Armed Forces during a time of war than Clinton sitting behind a book in a foriegn country during the same time....why?
    viet nam Statistic:


    * National Guard: 6,140 served; 101 died. (out of 50,000)

    Texas Air National Gaurd: ZERO

    it was rank hypocrisy to avoid danger in a cause that you supported, while wanting others to endager themselves in your place.

    http://my.eiis.net/cmart/vietwarstats.html
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  12. #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    I think the reason was that there was clear evidence of "ethnic cleansing" happening on a large scale and there was a consensus among all nations that it needed to be stopped. I would say that we (USA) got involved because it was the right thing to do. The UN, of course, was unable to do much, so it was NATO that took the initiative. And I think it was a credit that the issues were resolved using a joint force and that a brutal dictator like Milosevic was ousted by a democratic process and is curently facing the war crimes tribunal. Why couldn't the same process have worked for Iraq?
    I dunno? Ask the Coalition of the Unwilling why it couldn't work.

    Who was more brutal? Did Milosovic take his battles to foreign soil like Hussein did twice? Use gas? I'm trying to follow Barye's thinking, but it just seems to be nothing more than EXTREME partisanship. That's fine, the Leaders of any party love this.

    But as I pointed out with Bush/Somalia (being against it) and Clinton/Iraq (supporting it), I'm not playing the "is it my guy in the Office, or theirs" game. Talk about kool-aid addict.
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  13. #253  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    The difference is Bush didn't feel guilty about not serving in Vietnam like Clinton did.
    one had a conscience -- the other had the pose of having a conscience !!
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  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    What did they say?
    Didn't he say he "loathed the military"?
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  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    And you are more angry about Bush SERVING in the National Guard of the US Armed Forces during a time of war than Clinton sitting behind a book in a foriegn country during the same time....why?
    Because Bush is a Republican and Clinton is a liberal...duh!
    I'm back!
  16. #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Why couldn't the same process have worked for Iraq?
    Several reasons....mainly because they cannot be compared as far are regrouping the country afterwards. Civil was already going. Which means that there forces and a support structure for resistance and a already founded desire for change. This was then easily used to clean up the county following his downfall.

    I recently read a story in Time and a Doc on National Geo Channel on virtually the same subject, not sure it is only or not, that did a study on nation rebuilding. The ones that were the fastest process with the least amount of aftermath resistance where those who suffered the most during the war that brought down the former gov. The peoples under Milosevic clearly fall into this category.

    It then went on to show that the fall of Saddam was the most human and civilian friendly war campaign in the history of the world. Saddam placed his strategic buildings near schools, hospitals, power plants, and other civilian friendly locations as a deterrent against attack. Who wants to bomb a bunker if we had to take out a elementary school as well? But we were able to gut his building without even touching anything next door. In fact they were so precise that they were able to only take a specific floor in a single building, which they did.

    As a result the civilians rarely lost power. Historically speaking, they did not suffer in any significant amount. Which is a good thing. Which is what we wanted. Which is what we did.

    But as a result of that, it appears change comes harder and easier for resistant forces to recruit.

    Don't know the true validity of it, but I found it interesting to contemplate anyways.
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    #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    one had a conscience -- the other had the pose of having a conscience !!
    Where did you get the information that President Bush did not feel quilty, maybe he did maybe he did'nt see a need to feel quilty. I usually feel quilty when I know I did something unethical, is that why Clinton felt quilty? I do'nt know how either on of them felt and doubt if you do either.
  18.    #258  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Didn't he say he "loathed the military"?
    Apparently not. Barye says Clinton felt guilty about going. When Barye read that, he really started to like Clinton.
  19. #259  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Apparently not. Barye says Clinton felt guilty about going. When Barye read that, he really started to like Clinton.
    Clinton Universal Translator:
    "I loathe the military" really means "I feel their pain..."
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  20.    #260  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Clinton Universal Translator:
    "I loathe the military" really means "I feel their pain..."
    As military, do you feel it should be a requirement that a politician serve the military?

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