Page 1 of 7 123456 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 135
  1.    #1  
    The President just expressed his interest to have both Intelligent Design AND Evolution taught in schools.

    My questions:
    1. Is Intelligent Design just a Creationism trojan horse as its critics claim?
    2. Can Intelligent Design be taught without inferences to religion?
    3. Is it a theory worthy of discussion?
    4. Since ID/Evolution/Creationism is a topic of public debate, shouldn't the tenets of each be discussed in a biology class?
    5. Should a biology class be evolution-only?
    6. Does it really matter what we expose ninth graders to for 2-4 weeks of their lives?

    Personally, I'm in favor of educating students in the tenets of all major areas of debate (e.g. religions, political theories, scientific facts/theories/opinions) in order to give them a basis for understanding ideas other than their own.

    What do you all think?
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  2. #2  
    It would truly be a slippery slope for #1 and #2. How do you discuss them, without refering to the basis for the theory? And then, could all religions get together to decide on a "sanitized" single version to present?

    BTW, why can't we just say God created evolution?

    Cheers, Perry.
  3. #3  
    When I was in school, Evolution was an optional section in Biology. Those whose parents objected to its teaching were excused, without penalty.
  4.    #4  
    I thought the basis for ID was that living organisms were too complex to be explained by evolution/natural selection and that "some" architect was involved. I don't see it directly tied to a Judeo/Christian God. I think it even leaves open the possibility of other players. I'm not an advocate or critic of this idea.

    The idea that God created evolution doesn't meet with anybody's ideals except those who want this whole argument to go away.

    Evolutionists put nature and not God as the prime mover for things.
    Creationists don't buy into evolution as how things got started.
    ID'ers say "evolution" is too simple an idea for complex lifeforms and "we're not saying anything about God (but we can talk later...)"
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    The President just expressed his interest to have both Intelligent Design AND Evolution taught in schools.

    My questions:
    1. Is Intelligent Design just a Creationism trojan horse as its critics claim?
    Yes
    2. Can Intelligent Design be taught without inferences to religion?
    I don't see how you cannot. There is no scientific support for Intelligent Design. Most Intelligent Design "scientists" do not have formal accredited scientific degrees or background.
    3. Is it a theory worthy of discussion?
    As worthy of discussion as topics such as:
    a. The Geocentric universe (aka The Gallilean heresy)
    b. Reduced dimension aspects of geoterrestial physics (aka flat earth)
    c. Studies on communications with the metabolically challenged (aka channeling spirits)
    4. Since ID/Evolution/Creationism is a topic of public debate, shouldn't the tenets of each be discussed in a biology class?
    Should Roe vs. Wade be discussed in the biology class? What does a conservative crusade have anything to do with biology?
    5. Should a biology class be evolution-only?
    No - it should be science (biology) only.
    6. Does it really matter what we expose ninth graders to for 2-4 weeks of their lives?
    Why not expose them to topics on ghosts, ESP, faith-healing in their biology class? Or how about witchcraft, eugenics, sexual deviant behavior?
    Sorry - I do not want my tax dollars wasted on promoting somebody elses agenda or having my children exposed to stupidity.

    Personally, I'm in favor of educating students in the tenets of all major areas of debate (e.g. religions, political theories, scientific facts/theories/opinions) in order to give them a basis for understanding ideas other than their own.
    I agree 100% on that! As long as they are taught science in the science class, political theories in the civics class, religious theories in the comparative religions class and so on.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  6. nesman89's Avatar
    Posts
    5 Posts
    Global Posts
    6 Global Posts
    #6  
    Isn't the point of Education to be knowledgeable about many different things? I believe Intelligent Design/Creationism should be discussed and even tested on(you could teach in the historical sense) ie. this is what is believed to have happen. it's kind of like ignoring the white elephant in the room. everyone knows it's there but if we don't talk about it
    it will go away or not exist at all. i don't think this would be "pushing" religion on anyone. if you teach science and a student decides to continue his education based on evolution then why shouldn't a student be taught creationism and have the opportunity to study religion.

    I don't think this crosses the line of separation of church and state even though the constitution has no mention of this.
  7. #7  
    In response to post #4

    Just taking the devil's advocates role:

    If God created us and the enviroment in which we live; then he/she did create evolution, or, at least, the appearance that evolution has taken place within our environment.
  8.    #8  
    Perry,

    I can appreciate your role...

    However, the environment and the explanation are separate things. From the exact same environment that we see today, the "scientific community" of yesteryear was convinced that there were only four elements: Fire, Water, Air, and Earth. God didn't create the explanation but he was responsible for the environment.

    I'm not jumping into one camp or the other (for purposes of this discussion) but both Creationists and Evolutionists look at the same environment and have different explanations for how things happened and are happening.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  9. #9  
    Point well taken, and that is what has made "religion" on this rock, such a source of friction. We have 6 billion plus of us "interpreting" the environment and just a few, not willing to accomodate others with differing interpretations.

    Cheers, Perry.
  10.    #10  
    Chillig,

    It's very clear that your mind is made up. Thank you for illustrating the "evolution-only" side of the argument.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    I thought the basis for ID was that living organisms were too complex to be explained by evolution/natural selection and that "some" architect was involved.
    From what I've read, this is my understanding of ID as well.

    Unfortunately you will see this being a huge political battle that ultimately has one side claiming the other doesn't believe in God or religion. I may be overly cynical, but living in DC, everything is politics and turns ugly this way. Eventually you forget what the original question was.

    I went to public school in the 1980's (and I'm just fine, thanks) and we had biology class. There was no religion class. I'm curious about what they do in Catholic high schools - is there no biology class? Can anyone chime in on that? Christinac130 where you able to opt out of evolution because you went to a religous-based school?

    My opinion is that religion should remain in the church, or religious schools. If ID can be taught without a religious slant, then I think it should be considered as part of the curriculum along with evolution. However, I don't know what ID is without religion.
  12. #12  
    Catholic high school in the 70's -- taught both, creationism (in religion calss) and evolution (in biology class). Opting out of biology, was not an option, but non-catholics attending the school could opt out of religion. . . .
  13. #13  
    Another thought:

    Is ID to religion what evolution is to biology?
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden
    Catholic high school in the 70's -- taught both, creationism (in religion calss) and evolution (in biology class).
    Was the idea that you get a good, well rounded education then make up your own mind given what you've been taught? If so, that sounds reasonable to me. I was raised Catholic and as a teenager had numerous conversations with the clergy about creationism vs. evolution. Generally I was told to consider all possibilities.
  15. #15  
    Basically. However, it was presented more along the lines as "Here is what we believe (religiously) and here is what the scientific community currently thinks . . . . with the aside that they also thought the earth was flat once. . . .
    Last edited by gtwo; 08/03/2005 at 01:15 PM.
  16. nesman89's Avatar
    Posts
    5 Posts
    Global Posts
    6 Global Posts
    #16  
    MarkY said:
    Was the idea that you get a good, well rounded education then make up your own mind given what you've been taught?

    this was exactly what I was talking about. if you don't have both sides of the topic discussed how can you make an informed decision?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    The idea that God created evolution doesn't meet with anybody's ideals except those who want this whole argument to go away.
    Exactly - the sooner this topic disappears, the more effort that we can spend on actually educating our students, instead of confusing them.

    Evolutionists put nature and not God as the prime mover for things.
    Not exactly - evolutionists just try to explain how complex biological organisms arose from simpler life forms using the basic principles of science. The same scientific methods are used in every field of science - for explaining how how intricate inanimate salt crystals are formed, how tectonic plates move beneath the surface, how a multitude of factors interact together to create weather patterns. All these natural phenomenon can be explained without invoking "Intelligent Design" - and the same goes for evolution of complex life forms.
    Creationists don't buy into evolution as how things got started.
    Evolutionists do not claim to explain how life got started - that is an entirely different branch of science (more of physics and chemistry)[/QUOTE]
    ID'ers say "evolution" is too simple an idea for complex lifeforms and "we're not saying anything about God (but we can talk later...)"
    Too simple an idea??? What is the ID solution? Oh yes: "Organism A evolved to Organism B by the hand of an Intelligent Designer somehow. We have are too simple-minded to be able to comprehend how that could be done - so it could be the hand of God." I guess that is a very complex explanation!
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Chillig,

    It's very clear that your mind is made up. Thank you for illustrating the "evolution-only" side of the argument.
    Yes - my mind is made up on several issues - like that the Earth is not flat, or that it is not at the center of the universe.

    I have yet to hear a shred of evidence to support ID. I'm sure nobody here can come up with one.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkY
    From what I've read, this is my understanding of ID as well.

    Unfortunately you will see this being a huge political battle that ultimately has one side claiming the other doesn't believe in God or religion. I may be overly cynical, but living in DC, everything is politics and turns ugly this way. Eventually you forget what the original question was.

    I went to public school in the 1980's (and I'm just fine, thanks) and we had biology class. There was no religion class. I'm curious about what they do in Catholic high schools - is there no biology class? Can anyone chime in on that? Christinac130 where you able to opt out of evolution because you went to a religous-based school?

    My opinion is that religion should remain in the church, or religious schools. If ID can be taught without a religious slant, then I think it should be considered as part of the curriculum along with evolution. However, I don't know what ID is without religion.
    It is unfortunate that the christian church gets a bad rap because of a few right-wing morons. I got most of my schooling in a Catholic school myself - with one difference: it was run by Jesuits.
    Bible study was an option and I choose to attend it for all 7 years.
    We had a terrific biology teacher (a Jesuit priest) and he taught undiluted science - did not bring in Creationism or ID. When asked questions about those he simply said that those were questions for the Bible study class.

    Some of the best scientific discoveries came from deeply religious minds. Gregor Mendell's (who discovered the prinicples of genetics) is one example - he was a Catholic priest who did terrific science all by himself.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Chillig,

    It's very clear that your mind is made up. Thank you for illustrating the "evolution-only" side of the argument.
    don't you have any rebuttals? or is it that you don't want to have an open mind?
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
Page 1 of 7 123456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions