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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    To my knowledge the Local school board has a great deal of influence.
    Local school boards decide on curricula; however, Boards of Education are actually structures that fall under the authority of the State BOE's, so they can't entirely go off the reservation. There are also State Standards determined by each state, and which most school districts use as a template.

    Additionally, state testing determines much of our curricula in language arts, math and science - we'd cut our own throats if we didn't teach what is being tested at the state level, as it determines whether we're making Adequate Yearly Progress according to No Child Left Behind.

    That still leaves a bit under the control of local BOE's, but not as much as you'd think. In many states, the schools don't actually fall under the control of local BOE's as much as BOE's for the entire county, and some (such as California) actually have state-approved texts and curriculum materials. In CA, for example, Arnie decreed this year that the state would be going en masse to digital textbooks to save money. http://gov.ca.gov/press-release/12996/
    Last edited by Bujin; 11/13/2009 at 10:55 AM.
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  2. KAM1138
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    #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Local school boards decide on curricula; however, Boards of Education are actually structures that fall under the authority of the State BOE's, so they can't entirely go off the reservation. There are also State Standards determined by each state, and which most school districts use as a template.

    Additionally, state testing determines much of our curricula in language arts, math and science - we'd cut our own throats if we didn't teach what is being tested at the state level, as it determines whether we're making Adequate Yearly Progress according to No Child Left Behind.

    That still leaves a bit under the control of local BOE's, but not as much as you'd think. In many states, the schools don't actually fall under the control of local BOE's as much as BOE's for the entire county, and some (such as California) actually have state-approved texts and curriculum materials. In CA, for example, Arnie decreed this year that the state would be going en masse to digital textbooks to save money. Gov. Schwarzenegger Releases Free Digital Textbook Initiative Phase 1 Report
    Interesting. How much does this balance of power (with local Boards of education) vary State-to-State?

    One of my teacher friends indicated that the local school board was a major influence in his view. He also mentioned that they are essentially put in place by the local (heavily crony-system) powers that be. Not that this is relevant to what you are saying--just an interesting side note.

    KAM
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    No, Toby, that is not what Zeglo said. He said:
    The biggest problem about teaching creationism is that, in America, it is completely Christian. Please don't pretend that, if creationism is taught, the teachers are going to discuss creation from all different religions.

    Factually, if one teaches Christianity's version of Creation, they are also teaching Judaism's and Islams as well. Zeglo's claim is false, it CANNOT be completely Christian.
    Not exactly. While the basic stories come from the same root, they are not necessarily considered from the same perspective by those religions (or even necessarily every Christian sect). For example, were the 6 days literal or metaphorical? Also, how many Jewish or Islamic proponents of Intelligent Design are out there?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    To my knowledge the Local school board has a great deal of influence.
    Depends on in which area. As long as they're meeting the MFP requirements and BESE guidelines, they have a wide degree of latitude.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Interesting. How much does this balance of power (with local Boards of education) vary State-to-State?
    I think you'll find that it varies greatly even District-to-District within a state. In most cases in my state, it varies directly with proportion of local funding in addition to MFP funding. In districts that self-levy to a high level, you'll find much more local control than those that can only scrape by on MFP funds.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. KAM1138
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    #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Not exactly. While the basic stories come from the same root, they are not necessarily considered from the same perspective by those religions (or even necessarily every Christian sect). For example, were the 6 days literal or metaphorical? Also, how many Jewish or Islamic proponents of Intelligent Design are out there?
    I'm working from the assumption that all of this is approached from an academic standpoint. If one is teaching about what various religions belief, there is no perspective--it is laying out facts about something, just the same as one would lay our facts about any other cultural elements.

    The Creation story for Christianity, Judaism and Islam to my knowledge are literally from the same books of the Torah/Old Testament/Koran. Where they go from there or how they view things things are different, but it doesn't mean the source is different.

    In this discussion about the topic of Creationism, we've touched on a variety of different possibilities. Do you think that the actual discussion in an academic setting wouldn't? Wouldn't the natural progression be to ask "What does that other Religion believe?"

    This is a bit of a tangent, but this got me thinking.
    I've heard a whole lot since 9/11 about how important it is to understand other cultures, and much of the world is highly intertwined with Islam, so isn't understanding their religious views important in understanding other cultures?

    Should one exclude the start of the Religious story because it deals with creation? Let's take Hinduism. To begin to learn about it, wouldn't it be informative to know how the basis for their beliefs--which likely start with how they think they came to be?

    KAM
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I think you'll find that it varies greatly even District-to-District within a state. In most cases in my state, it varies directly with proportion of local funding in addition to MFP funding. In districts that self-levy to a high level, you'll find much more local control than those that can only scrape by on MFP funds.
    There are certainly state-to-state differences, and district-to-district up to a point. For example, several towns in my state decided that they were going to ignore No Child Left Behind entirely, because their federal funds were far less than the cost of implementing NCLB's mandates. The State responded by enacting policies that basically said that they would be out of compliance with the State BOE, even if they turned down federal funds.

    As I stated, California and other large states even dictate the texts and curricula, in order to enforce standards (and deal with the issue of students moving from district-to-district).

    So it really depends upon how much authority each state's BOE decides to exert.
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    #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    What sorts of views? Are they prevented from starting/attending a private school or home schooling?
    Marxism, gay activism, environmental activism, etc. Private schools and home schooling is still legal, for now. But those aren't options for a large number of families.

    What percentage of funding at most local schools is provided by the federal government?
    Roughly 8%, yes? Though the amount doesn't really matter.
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by glorifiedg View Post
    Groovy, and what is the problem?

    Schools exist to teach verifiable truth and proofable...
    If only. I've seen what it being taught at the secondary level in my local district. This is not verifiable truth.

    The parents point of view is to be taught by parents not by school, I think.
    I agree. But teachers views are to be left at home as well.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Marxism, gay activism, environmental activism, etc.
    Even assuming that those are actually taught at schools, what federal guidelines require them?
    Private schools and home schooling is still legal, for now. But those aren't options for a large number of families.
    I was under the impression that home schooling was thriving among certain sectors. Maybe it's regional.
    Roughly 8%, yes? Though the amount doesn't really matter.
    Doesn't it? I think the amount not only matters compared to total budget, but also the strings attached to the funding. From what I understand, none of the federal programs are particularly mandatory, but only set guidelines that have to be followed in order to receive the funds (Title I, II, IV, ARRA, etc.). If the district doesn't want to follow the guidelines, they just have to come up with their own funding. OTOH, that even ignores that some try to game the system in order to make it look like they're following guidelines when they're not. That being said, none of those guidelines mandate curriculum at this time.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. groovy's Avatar
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    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Even assuming that those are actually taught at schools, what federal guidelines require them?
    They are taught in many schools. Though that particular curriculum is not mandated by the federal government, counters to many of those arguments are either explicitly prohibited or heavily frowned upon by schools and districts eager to avoid litigation.

    I was under the impression that home schooling was thriving among certain sectors. Maybe it's regional.
    I don't know I'd say "thriving" but it has become more popular. Still, it's not a viable option for many families including but not limited to single-parent families.

    Doesn't it? I think the amount not only matters compared to total budget, but also the strings attached to the funding. From what I understand, none of the federal programs are particularly mandatory, but only set guidelines that have to be followed in order to receive the funds (Title I, II, IV, ARRA, etc.). If the district doesn't want to follow the guidelines, they just have to come up with their own funding. OTOH, that even ignores that some try to game the system in order to make it look like they're following guidelines when they're not. That being said, none of those guidelines mandate curriculum at this time.
    In '96, the Federal government provided grants to states who participated in "abstinence-only until marriage" programs. Participating states were required to follow a very specific program in order to qualify for the grant money. Districts with a high population of "at risk" students were specifically targeted. In all practicality, the districts had little say in the matter. Years later, many states moved away from Title V grant money to "abstinence pus" programs with, in most cases as I recall, specific opt-out policies. Did this shift in policies reflect parent's changing views? Or was it that under that under either policy there are parents whose children are being taught views not their own?
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    They are taught in many schools. Though that particular curriculum is not mandated by the federal government, counters to many of those arguments are either explicitly prohibited or heavily frowned upon by schools and districts eager to avoid litigation.
    So how do they not have a choice? I thought we were talking about federal funding forcing them to teach certain things. If the federal government isn't mandating the curriculum, who is forcing the schools to teach it?
    In '96, the Federal government provided grants to states who participated in "abstinence-only until marriage" programs. Participating states were required to follow a very specific program in order to qualify for the grant money. Districts with a high population of "at risk" students were specifically targeted. In all practicality, the districts had little say in the matter.
    So, are you saying that your state board forced the local districts into the program?
    Years later, many states moved away from Title V grant money to "abstinence pus" programs with, in most cases as I recall, specific opt-out policies. Did this shift in policies reflect parent's changing views? Or was it that under that under either policy there are parents whose children are being taught views not their own?
    Wait, which side are you arguing again?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  13. #133  
    pickle
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
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    #134  
    jalapeno
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #135  
    wrong thread!!!!
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