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  1.    #21  
    Iran won't be intimidated, new president says

    http://reuters.myway.com//article/20...L-IRAN-DC.html

    .
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    There have also been military agreements, which could but Iran in a unique situation. Working with the Iraqi military on one side and the possibility of supporting the extremist on the other.
    Even if the Iran gov is not officially or directly supporting these groups in their country they are unofficially offering them a haven to conduct these acts within their own borders.

    Some Iraq bombs made in Iran -NYTimes report

    http://reuters.myway.com//article/20...-BOMBS-DC.html

    Aug 6, 1:14 AM (ET)


    NEW YORK (Reuters) - Some sophisticated new roadside bombs being used against U.S. and Iraqi troops are being designed in Iran and shipped from there, The New York Times reported on Saturday.

    Citing U.S. military and intelligence officials, the Times said the information about the origin of the new weapons suggests a new level of cooperation between Iranian Shi'ite Muslims and Iraqi Sunnis against the U.S. presence in Iraq. The commanders told the newspaper this was puzzling given increasing sectarian violence within Iraq.

    According to military bomb experts, the new weapons are designed specifically to target armored vehicles. They first began appearing about two months ago, and one senior military officer said "tens" of them had been brought into Iraq and used against coalition forces, killing or wounding several U.S. troops in recent weeks, the Times said.

    "These are among the most sophisticated and most lethal devices we've seen," the Times quoted a senior officer as saying. The officer spoke on condition of anonymity because of the delicate intelligence reports describing the bombs.

    "It's very serious," he said in the report.

    Some shipments may have been brought over the Iranian border by Hizbollah or Iran's Revolutionary Guard, Pentagon and intelligence officials said. The bombs closely match those used by Hizbollah against Israel.

    U.S. officials said they had no evidence of the Iranian government's involvement.
  3. #23  
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States on Friday for the first time accepted that Iran can develop civilian nuclear programs, backing an EU proposal that would allow Tehran to pursue atomic power in exchange for giving up fuel work.

    In a compromise that completed a gradual shift in U.S. policy, Washington acquiesced because it believes the EU offer has enough safeguards to prevent Iran diverting its civilian work into making nuclear bombs.

    "We support the (Europeans') effort and the proposal they have put forward to find a diplomatic solution to this problem and to seek an end to Iran's nuclear weapons program," State Department spokesman Tom Casey told reporters.

    The U.S. acquiescence over Iran is in contrast with its stance in talks with North Korea, which it insists cannot have any nuclear development for fear Pyongyang would build atomic bombs under the guise of a civilian power program.

    The shift also comes despite long-held U.S. worries that allowing a civilian program could help Iran develop its nuclear technology and know-how so that, if it ever breaks any EU agreement, it would be closer to acquiring a bomb.

    A U.S. official said the EU offer helped allayed American fears.

    "There's a certainty and an ability to ensure that none of the nuclear fuel that would be involved is diverted to an illicit nuclear weapons program," said the official, who asked not to be named because he was not authorized to discuss details of the proposal.

    MOSCOW MODEL

    The EU -- represented by Britain, France and Germany -- has held talks for two years with Iran to find a compromise between arch foes Iran and the United States.

    Washington accuses Iran of trying to covertly build a nuclear bomb. Tehran says its programs are peaceful and that it has the right to convert and enrich uranium, which can be used for power generation or to build bombs.

    The U.S. opposition to nuclear power plants has eroded this year.

    Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has increasingly pointed to a power plant deal between Russia and Iran as an example of how to limit the risk from a civilian program because Moscow controls the fuel.

    But while the United States had accepted such an arrangement under the existing deal, until Friday it had not explicitly agreed to the principle that Iran could have a civilian program.

    The EU offered to declare its "willingness to support Iran to develop a safe, economically viable and proliferation-proof civil nuclear power."

    The bloc offered to guarantee supplies of fuel for light-water nuclear power reactors, but insisted Iran returned to the supplier all spent fuel, which can also be used in atomic weaponry.

    "We encourage Iran to consider positively the EU3's offer," Casey said.
    Hmmmm. Maybe this has something to do with the recent indictments of the former AIPAC officials?
  4.    #24  
    This was mentioned in the article I quoted above, where other countries would refine the material and Iran has to return all waste and unused products from those shipments. They were offered a nuke program without them doing their own refining.....that is the key point.

    So far Iran has refused such an offer that would meet all of their needs for their claim for a peaceful nuke power program for electricity, stating they wanted/needed to do their own refining of nuclear materials.

    They import 50% or so of their gasoline, because they don't want to refine that. But apparently for a peaceful nuke program for electricity, they NEED to refine it themselves.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 08/09/2005 at 03:28 PM.
  5.    #25  

    U.N. nuclear watchdog holds emergency meeting on Iran

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8871545/

    The U.N. nuclear watchdog agency held an emergency meeting Tuesday to assess Iran's resumption of uranium conversion, while an Iranian dissident said Tehran has manufactured about 4,000 centrifuges capable of enriching uranium to weapons grade.

    --------------

    State Department spokesman Adam Ereli and French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said Iran had violated an agreement with Germany, France and Britain to suspend such activities.

    --------------

    ''The board will request Iran to reconsider its decision to unravel a part of the suspension,'' ElBaradei told reporters. ''The important thing for me at the end of the day is to go back to the negotiating process and avoid any escalation of the situation.''

    Iran may have acted in part for a domestic audience — a hard-line president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, took office Saturday — and as a negotiating tactic.

    Robert Einhorn, a former assistant secretary of State for non-proliferation, accused Iran of escalating tensions through "salami slicing."

    "They're testing the international community," he said. "If they get a strong reaction, they can stop; if not, they can continue salami slicing."

    Iran denies that it intends to make nuclear bombs. But it hid much of its nuclear program for two decades, which raises questions about its intentions.

    Iran acted after rejecting a U.S.-backed European offer to provide fuel for nuclear plants and other cooperation in return for giving up its fuel program.

    Iran's ambassador to the U.N., Mohammed Javad Zarif, said that proposal was "unacceptable."

    The 34-page proposal, a copy of which was provided by Zarif, demands that Iran let U.N. inspectors "visit any site or interview any person they deem relevant to their monitoring of nuclear activity in Iran." That is similar to the access inspectors had in Iraq. In return, the proposal says Iran "should have sustained access to nuclear fuel" for power plants and greater cooperation in fields ranging from air safety to seismology.

    The proposal also says Iran must respect human rights and take new measures to prevent terrorism. The United States accuses Iran of violating human rights and supporting terrorist groups.
  6.    #26  

    Informant says Tehran has 4,000 centrifuges

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...nformant_x.htm

    VIENNA, Austria (AP) — Iran has manufactured about 4,000 centrifuges capable of enriching uranium to weapons grade, an exiled Iranian dissident who helped uncover nearly two decades of covert nuclear activity in 2002 said Tuesday.
    Alireza Jafarzadeh told the Associated Press that the centrifuges — which he said are unknown to the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency — are ready to be installed at Iran's nuclear facility in Natanz

    -----------

    The agency previously had said it was aware of the existence of 164 centrifuges at Natanz.

    "These 4,000 centrifuge machines have not been declared to the IAEA, and the regime has kept the production of these machines hidden from the inspectors while the negotiations with the European Union have been going on over the past 21 months," Jafarzadeh said.


    ------------------

    Jafarzadeh said the centrifuges were manufactured in Isfahan and Tehran, and that construction of buildings, concrete foundations and other work needed to prepare the Natanz facility for centrifuge installation has continued in recent months.

  7. #27  
    OK...now what??

    VIENNA/TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran broke U.N. seals at a uranium processing plant on Wednesday, escalating a confrontation with Western nations which fear it may develop nuclear weapons.

    As Iranian officials reopened sensitive areas of the Isfahan plant in central Iran, Britain, France and Germany struggled in Vienna to rally international pressure for a motion urging Tehran to go back to the voluntary freeze it broke on Monday.

    "The removal of seals has been completed. The plant is fully operational now," Mohammad Saeedi, deputy head of Iran's Atomic Energy Organisation, told Reuters by telephone from Vienna.

    Melissa Fleming, spokeswoman for the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) confirmed the Iranians had removed all seals on machines at Isfahan although she said it had left some on stockpiled nuclear materials.

    The U.N. watchdog put on the seals after Tehran agreed with the European Union's biggest powers to halt all nuclear fuel work last November to ease tensions after the IAEA found Iran had hidden weapons-grade highly enriched uranium.

    Story
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  8.    #28  
    Iran Removes Final Seals at Nuclear Plant
    Aug 10, 1:18 PM (ET)

    http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8BT3DL00.html

    ISFAHAN, Iran (AP) - Iran removed the final seals from equipment at a uranium conversion plant as U.N. inspectors watched Wednesday, paving the way for Tehran to fully open the facility despite European and U.S. calls for it to maintain the suspension of its nuclear program.

    The move came as Europe and the United States were struggling to find leverage to stop Iran from forging ahead with its nuclear program, which Washington says secretly aims to develop nuclear weapons. Iran says its program is peaceful, intended only to produce electricity.

    Board members of the U.N. nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency, canceled a session tentatively planned for Wednesday in Vienna, Austria, signaling how difficult it was for delegates to agree on how to rebuke Iran.

    The United States and some European countries had talked of referring Iran to the U.N. Security Council for possible economic sanctions - but that option was fading over concerns it could backfire by hardening Iran's position. Iran has already said it would rather endure sanctions than back down on a program it says is a matter of national pride.

    -----------

    The reopening of the plant is part of a tough new stance Iran is taking over its nuclear program. It suspended all nuclear activities in November to avoid U.N. sanctions and as a gesture in negotiations with the Europeans, who have trying to persuade Iran to limit its nuclear program.

    Over the weekend, Iran rejected European proposals offering economic incentives in return for abandoning its uranium processing facilities.

    New hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called the offer "an insult," but he said Iran wanted to continue negotiations and would make its own proposals.

    --------------

    Before the November suspension, the Isfahan facility converted some 37 tons of yellowcake into UF-4, a preliminary stage. Experts say that amount could yield 200 pounds of weapons-grade uranium, enough to make five crude nuclear weapons.

    Germany said the removal of the seals at Isfahan brought the standoff to a "critical phase of the process."

    ----------------

    The German government "hopes Iran will still take the sensible path and look seriously and constructively at the offer from the (Europeans) and return to the so-called 'status quo ante," spokesman Bela Anda said.

    France also urged Iran to again suspend the Isfahan plant. "This is necessary to restore the confidence of the international community and to allow for a resumption of negotiations," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Marie Masdupuy said.
  9.    #29  
    Bush voices suspicions over Iran's nuclear intentions
    Posted 8/9/2005 2:41 PM

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...n_x.htm?csp=15

    VIDEO of Bush Comments on Iran CLICK HERE

    CRAWFORD, Texas — President Bush said Tuesday that he is "very deeply suspicious" of Iran's nuclear ambitions but has been told its new president is willing to resume negotiations aimed at preventing Iran from producing nuclear weapons.

    -------------

    In Tehran, Ahmadinejad said he had new ideas to resolve the impasse and was ready to continue talks. But he called the latest proposal by the European countries "an insult to the Iranian nation." Iran rejected on Monday the offer to provide an outside source of nuclear fuel for power plants. In return, the European proposal calls for Iran to give up its nuclear fuel program.

    Bush spoke as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the United Nations' nuclear watchdog, held an emergency session on Iran's resumption of a program to make nuclear fuel. On Monday, Iran restarted the process of turning raw uranium into uranium hexafluoride gas, which can be enriched into fuel for power plants or bombs. The agency's 35-member board is considering a resolution calling on Iran to suspend the program again and return to talks. A vote is likely this week.

    -----------------

    Further complicating the situation: The Bush administration has not decided whether to give Iran's new president a visa to address a meeting of the U.N. General Assembly in September.

    Iran hid much of its nuclear program from the U.N. agency for two decades. It is believed to be several years away from building bombs.

    ------------------
  10. #30  
    <merged>
  11. #31  
    I guess few things show the highly limited strategic intelligence of the Iraq war better than the situation concerning Iran:

    What are the options with Iran?

    - Diplomacy,
    hoping some sort of carrot will help. That's what the Europeans are trying, with limited success so far, and uncertain prospects.

    - Attacking and occupying Iran,
    in order to prevent them from making more weapon grade Uranium, or threatening to do so (US/Iraq style). Out of the question, not even the threat would be credible: the US armed forces, however numberful and well equipped, are alread spread thin and fully stuck in Iraq (and Afghanistan). Recruiting goals are not met due to Iraq situation, no options open in that respect.

    - Limited air-strikes against the nuclear facilities in Iran.
    That would seem to be an interesting option if all other means fail (diplomacy, carrot approach). BUT (and this is quite a large but): This would cause an open rebellion among the Shiite majority in Iraq. They would immediately turn against the US - shall we say occupants, enemies in that case - and against the government which is involved with the US. Full-fledged civil war in Iraq would be the result.

    So there we, the Western World, are: The war in Irak, against a contained dictator without WMDs and no meaningful ties to Islamistic terrorists, has ruined the options for more severe cases, for a long time.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  12. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    So there we, the Western World, are: The war in Irak, against a contained dictator without WMDs and no meaningful ties to Islamistic terrorists, has ruined the options for more severe cases, for a long time.
    Switzerland considers itself part of the Western World???...I thought you were neutral.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  13.    #34  
    U.N. Agency Has 'Concern' on Iran Nukes

    http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8BTMT180.html

    Aug 11, 11:27 AM (ET)


    VIENNA, Austria (AP) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog expressed "serious concern" Thursday over Iran's resumption this week of nuclear activities that could lead to an atomic bomb, but the agency left open the possibility of further negotiations.

    The International Atomic Energy Agency's 35-nation board of directors adopted a resolution that said "outstanding issues relating to Iran's nuclear program have yet to be resolved."

    It did not mention reporting the regime to the U.N. Security Council, which has the power to impose crippling sanctions.

    Iran insists its nuclear program is peaceful and geared only toward producing electricity. The United States and others contend it is covertly trying to build atomic weapons.

    --------------

    Gregory Schulte, the U.S. envoy to the IAEA, told reporters that the adoption of the resolution "shows that the international community is united in its determination that Iran move off the dangerous course that it is on."

    Mohammad Saeedi, an Iranian negotiator in Vienna, said earlier that Tehran rejected the text because it would bar Iran from converting uranium, a process it is allowed to pursue under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

    Enriched uranium can be used to produce energy or to make weapons, depending on the degree to which it has been enriched.
  14.    #35  

    Iraq investigating claims of Iranian weapons smuggling
    8/11/2005 10:17 AM

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...s_x.htm?csp=15

    BAGHDAD (AP) — Iraq is investigating U.S. allegations that weapons were smuggled into the country from Iran, a government spokesman said Thursday.
    Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said earlier this week that some insurgent weapons are entering Iraq from Iran although it's unclear whether they were coming from elements of the Iranian government or from other parties.

    Chief government spokesman Laith Kubba said a "very comprehensive investigation" is under way, but distanced himself from Rumsfeld's comments.

    "America has its own agenda in dealing with different cases and Iraq has its own program, but the government is paying more attention to this issue and investigating it," Kubba said.

    Kubba said weapons with Iranian markings previously have been found in Iraq but the allegation was being "discussed carefully because we all know that during complex wars sometimes one party tries to create sedition."

    Iraq's Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said Wednesday that reports of deadly roadside bombs being smuggled into this country from Iran were exaggerated. Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari dodged questions about the matter at a recent press conference.

    Iraq's new Shiite leaders have close ties to the Iranian theocracy. Al-Jaafari spent years living in Iran in exile and recently visited Tehran, the first visit by an Iraqi leader in several years.
  15. #36  
    Looks like Iran says FU to the EU
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  16.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Looks like Iran says FU to the EU
    I guess we will see.....

    Envoys: Iran Faces Sept. Deadline on Nukes

    Aug 11, 11:48 PM (ET)

    VIENNA, Austria (AP) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog expressed "serious concern" Thursday over Iran's resumption of activities that could lead to an atomic bomb, and diplomats said Tehran has a Sept. 3 deadline to stop or face another possible referral to the Security Council.

    Iran, showing the defiance it has increasingly displayed since its new president was inaugurated last weekend, responded with indignation. Tehran's chief delegate here vowed that Iran would become a nuclear fuel producer and supplier within a decade.

    "This resolution is political," said Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, according to the state-run news agency. "It comes from American pressure. ... It lacks any legal or logical basis and is unacceptable."

    -------------

    With the plant now working at full force, Iran's hard-liners are pushing President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to ignore European warnings and resume uranium enrichment.

    ------------

    Mohammad Javad Larijani, a member of Iran's powerful Expediency Council, said the transfer of power to Ahmadinejad has given the country an opportunity to change the rules of the game.

    He called France, Germany and Britain - the countries negotiating with Iran - "three international savages" and said any debate over enrichment is "shameful."

    ---------------

    "Any government in Iran that gives up nuclear technology will collapse since the issue has turned into a matter of national pride. There is no doubt that Natanz will resume work sooner rather than later," said Ahmad Tavakoli, a lawmaker allied with Ahmadinejad.

    President Bush, meeting at his Texas ranch with his foreign policy team, welcomed the nuclear agency's warning to Tehran.

    -----------------

    In Vienna, the nuclear agency asked IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei to deliver a report on Iran's implementation of nuclear safeguards by Sept. 3. Diplomats made clear that insufficient progress by that date could mean the board would consider referring Iran to the U.N. Security Council, which has the power to impose sanctions. The diplomats spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized by their governments to discuss the issue.

    Thursday's resolution did not mention the Security Council, given concerns such a move could backfire by hardening Iran's position. Iran had said it would rather endure sanctions than back down.
  17. #38  
    What happens when Israel goes in and takes out these nuclear plants??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  18. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    What happens when Israel goes in and takes out these nuclear plants??
    They won't.

    Iran has become an increasingly powerful, confident, and belligerent country. Israel is unlikely to do anything that only wounds and ENRAGES its enemy.

    When Israel launched its brilliant decisive bombing raid on Iraq's Osirak nuclear facility in '81, Iraq and Iran were mutually strangling the other in this apocalyptic war without end.

    Israel had the intelligence to know what to target -- and to understand that target's (and that program's) vulnerabilities,

    iran has learned from all of that.

    Because the Iranians are wary to begin with, they've been trying to hide this project from the start. As a result everything is dispersed, and buried -- and very hard to completely destroy in air raids.

    And by its nature, there is no single decisive blow that could conceivably be delivered by the Israeli Air Force -- that's because its a tactical, not strategic force. Heavy bombers (or missiles) would be required for that kind of attack.

    Historically, the most threatening enemy for Iran was Iraq -- but junior has fixed that...

    (btw -- were you really born in '85 ?? I thought you were alot older -- based on your opinions)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  19.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    They won't.

    Iran has become an increasingly powerful, confident, and belligerent country. Israel is unlikely to do anything that only wounds and ENRAGES its enemy.

    When Israel launched its brilliant decisive bombing raid on Iraq's Osirak nuclear facility in '81, Iraq and Iran were mutually strangling the other in this apocalyptic war without end.

    Israel had the intelligence to know what to target -- and to understand that target's (and that program's) vulnerabilities,

    iran has learned from all of that.

    Because the Iranians are wary to begin with, they've been trying to hide this project from the start. As a result everything is dispersed, and buried -- and very hard to completely destroy in air raids.

    And by its nature, there is no single decisive blow that could conceivably be delivered by the Israeli Air Force -- that's because its a tactical, not strategic force. Heavy bombers (or missiles) would be required for that kind of attack.

    Historically, the most threatening enemy for Iran was Iraq
    I think all very valid points and I could very easily agree with them all. The other point I would add, is that probably from being surround, and continually attacked since it established itself as a dominating force in the 6 day war, they can be a little jumpy. They also are suppose to have a very good intel agency.

    Not be a doomsdayer, but.....Would Isreal do it? Not probable, but still possible. Even though they probably couldn't take everything out by air or even with bunker buster missiles Irans Nuke program for all the reasons you stated, I could see them doing it to simply slow them down or simply to make a statement to Iran. Of course since Iran has said that any strategic strike against even one of its nuke facilities would be considered a full fledge declaration of war.....that one event could turn into a major war drawing in half the world with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    -- but junior has fixed that...
    There you go again. You have a perfectly good argument. A valid argument and lower your own insightful points down to a political dig putting into question if your points could be considered balanced.

    But yet again....I answered this repeated slanted slam on post #3 of this thread.

    And here:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...6&postcount=47

    and here:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...5&postcount=49
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