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  1. #81  
    I think I got a solution to the whole mess.

    Instead of revoting or recounting, gather all the politicians and lawyers to Washington, D.C. or any other city of choice and since so many "important" people going to be there at once, make the all the other people leave the city for a few days. Now that you have only politicians and lawyers in a tiny area, launch a small tactical nuclear missle. This way we could start all over again, and maybe prevent the mistakes made in the past.


    DISCLAIMER:
    This is just an idea, if you help bring this into action, I will not be held responsible. I may be celebrating along side you, but I will not be held responsible.
  2. #82  
    To clear up an earlier misconception regarding the two states which can split their electoral vote, I quote the CBS web-page:

    "In 48 of the 50 states, the candidate who wins the popular vote in a particular state nabs that state's electoral votes. (Same deal for the District of Columbia.) Two exceptions to this are Nebraska and Maine, which allot their electoral votes according to the popular vote winner in each of their House districts."


  3. #83  
    Originally posted by dyscon
    I think I got a solution to the whole mess.

    Instead of revoting or recounting, gather all the politicians and lawyers to Washington, D.C. or any other city of choice and since so many "important" people going to be there at once, make the all the other people leave the city for a few days. Now that you have only politicians and lawyers in a tiny area, launch a small tactical nuclear missle. This way we could start all over again, and maybe prevent the mistakes made in the past.
    [


    comments like this always remind me of 'Life, the Universe, and Everything' and the 'Grand Plan' to rid the world of telephone sanitizers. ....remember what happened???
    wow, it's been awhile.....things have REALLY changed...why is my Visor Edge still in my hand? Will a Treo fit better?
  4. #84  
    James,

    Congrats on your 1,000th post!

    Do you think we should hand count all your posts to "determine your intent"?
  5. #85  
    My only question is how many recounts is FL going to have? First there was machine, now some counties want an extension past 5pm today to count by hand also. When will it end?

    K Cannon thanks for the 2 states. I knew Maine was one but couldn't remember Nebraska. If only all states did this.

    Someone emailed me a link to this map that was featured on the Drudge Report. It details by county the Bush/Gore winner for most states. I don't know how accurate it is.
    James Hromadka, TreoCentral Editor
    Houston - EST. 1836
  6. #86  
    Originally posted by Marfu
    James,

    Congrats on your 1,000th post!

    Do you think we should hand count all your posts to "determine your intent"?
    About time! Joining heated off-topic discussions is a great way to get your count up.

    Seeing as how I'm the "controlling authority" here, I get to have whatever intent I desire.
    James Hromadka, TreoCentral Editor
    Houston - EST. 1836
  7. #87  
    James--
    Yeah, I couldn't remember the two states either, even though I "learned" them less than a week ago on election night. Short term memory gone--shoulda put them in my VDX.

    Here's a link to go to the statement of Florida Sec. of State, Katherine Harris. Mid-morning today, she announced that she will not extend the deadline for recount past tomorrow at 5pm. Her position appears (at first glance, based upon here statement only, don't flame me, don't flame me) soundly based on Florida law that provides a mechanism for recount in close elections. (I think we are all WELL aware at this point that Florida law has such a automatic procedure.)

    http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/...ris.statement/

    KC
  8. #88  
    Originally posted by matty
    all right, i'm willing to eat a little crow. but not so much as you'd like, toby.
    You seem to be reading something into my words which isn't there. I really couldn't care less about making you "eat crow".

    nixon's ethics... i've got three (not 5) historians off the top of my head: kearns, schlesinger2, and greenberg.
    I might check them out sometime if I ever get really bored.

    i am not trying to pigeonhole you into being a blindnixonian, either.
    No, you tried to pigeonhole me as being for that sot, Buchanan.

    all i'm saying is the guy's election ethics are not clean.
    And what I'm saying is that his ethics circa Watergate do not necessarily prove what his ethics were like circa the Kennedy election.

    and you know what, i'll also admit that clinton's personal life is not clean either. but again, the difference remains (and this is whence the argument sprung): one has actually to do with elections, the other, well, doesn't.
    His personal life is irrelevant AFAIC. His conduct while performing his elected duties is what matters to me. He can screw goats on the White House lawn after hours for all I care, but when he's on the phone with other officials or meeting with foreign leaders, he should keep his pants zipped.

    a political debate, by the way, so far as i know, takes more than one. you and i are more than one, this means i know and knew that i was part of the debate -- see the admitted soapbox line.
    That's the catch, though. I never said I was debating (which implies two clearly opposing sides).

    minority discontent... jesse jackson, and the naacp are alleging violation of the voter's rights act. nothing has yet gone to court,
    Nothing will. Jesse Jackson and his ilk prefer to conduct their business via the newsmedia. Those pesky oaths to tell the truth, etc. and procedural rules don't limit them that way.

    i wasn't there, i can't prove anything personally... however, as you have realized, i'm admittedly quick to jump on certain political bandwagons, and in this particular case, i'll side with jesse. sue me.
    No thanks...too many frivilous lawsuits in this country already.

    i'll guess again at your affiliation: browne... if i'm wrong, i'm curious, who is it?
    Yes, I voted for Browne (my last comment should have been the dead giveaway).

    electoral choice... i was talking u.s. constitution, not state constitution.
    Doesn't matter. The U.S. Constitution basically directs the states to choose electors. The states are then free to choose their methods of selection.

    admittedly that's the doc i read, not the individual state docs. of course, it looks like you used a bit of your own interpretation in reading the faq from which you posted the url: (bold is mine)
    I did no such thing.

    There is no Constitutional provision or Federal law that requires electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their States. Some States (24 plus DC at last count) require electors to cast their votes according to the popular vote. These pledges fall into two categories -- electors bound by State law and those bound by pledges to political parties.

    The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution does not require that electors be completely free to act as they choose and therefore, political parties may extract pledges from electors to vote for the parties' nominees. Some State laws provide that so-called "faithless electors" may be subject to fines or may be disqualified for casting an invalid vote and be replaced by a substitute elector. The Supreme Court has not specifically ruled on the question of whether pledges and penalties for failure to vote as pledged may be enforced under the Constitution. No elector has ever been prosecuted for failing to vote as pledged.

    Today, it is rare for electors to disregard the popular vote by casting their electoral vote for someone other than their party's candidate. Electors generally hold a leadership position in their party or were chosen to recognize years of loyal service to the party. Throughout our history as a nation, more than 99 percent of electors have voted as pledged.
    again, i'm not saying they will do it, but under federal law, they can vote however they @$!&^%ing well choose.
    Under federal law, yeah, but federal law does not rule in this case. Perhaps you've forgotten the 10th amendment?

    and as far as clinton's landslides: electoral votes are still the ones that count and here're the results:
    1992 370 to bush's 168
    1996 379 to dole's 159
    in my book, more than twice as many votes counts as a landslide.
    Just remember that "electoral votes are still the ones that count" part.

    creative history... hmmm. history is what someone writes down... making it automatically subjective.
    We obviously have a drastically different view of what history really is.

    i'm allowed my subjective views as well as you, or has something changed.
    You are fully allowed subjective views, but I prefer to deal with things on a more objective level. AFAIC, history is what actually happened. Debating intentions and all that cr@p is mental masturbation.

    i'm pretty sure neither of us was in the chamber at the moment of any presidential impeachment... in any case, i am finding myself, more and more, in what you might term an an oliverstonian world. i think it's closer to orwellian or huxleyan, but you caught me... i don't believe in the single bullet. when i say jonson was impeached for being a democrat, or clinton was impoeached for getting laid, i mean in a broader sense, that there are greater forces at work than those in the legal docket.
    OK, I'll refrain from trying to impose reality into your fantasy world from now on.

    machine v. hand recount... by now i'm sure you've realized that a hand recount is a perfectly valid request under fla. law, and the shrub himself signed a bill into law in his very own home state saying that a hand recount is more reliable than a machine one. 'nuff said.
    What's the bill and the exact language?

    yet another recount will, of course, bring another tally.
    And yet another handcount will likely bring yet another. So when does the process stop?

    that's the issue, i believe. hand is subjective, machine is fallible, so where does one draw the line? i don't know.
    It appears that the line will be drawn tomorrow evening.

    look. as seen on a greater scale over this entire campaign, discussions like this can and will go round and round and nobody clearly wins.
    When one devolves into considering everything subjective that tends to happen.

    i admit fully that my views are skewed wildly to the left.
    Actually, I doubt that they are if you support any Democrat. The Democrats and the Republicans are both waging a war for the center and have been for a long time.

    and maybe someone else will read this exchange and agree with you (more likely than agreeing with me, it seems ...)
    Whether or not anyone agrees with me is largely irrelevant.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #89  
    Originally posted by Hoser_in_USA
    comments like this always remind me of 'Life, the Universe, and Everything' and the 'Grand Plan' to rid the world of telephone sanitizers. ....remember what happened???
    Do you really think politicians and lawyers can really prevent a world wide plague? If they are really necessary or could be theoretically, we can always keep lock up 84 of them (42 politicians and 42 lawyers) and let them out when they are needed.
  10. #90  
    Originally posted by dyscon
    Do you really think politicians and lawyers can really prevent a world wide plague?

    NOOOOO!!! i didn't say keep them around!

    just the comment about herding them all together and taking care of them reminded me of that part in the book....

    geez! NO! i wouldn't suggest keeping them around to save humanity!!
    wow, it's been awhile.....things have REALLY changed...why is my Visor Edge still in my hand? Will a Treo fit better?
  11.    #91  
    The one theme that keeps repeating during this tumultuous debate is that the Electoral College should be abolished. Our Congress has debated this many times past, and has it never been repealed in over two hundred years. I feel that there is a very good reason to keep the Electorate, and feel that this is another example of the foresight of the architects of our Constitution.

    Imagine if you will the chaos that now permeates Florida, yet spread to a national scale. If we were to go by the popular vote alone, then I feel that instead of a few counties in Florida processing votes by hand, we would see counties across the country doing recounts. The popular vote is still extremely close by Presidential terms. The Electorate narrows the scope of this contention. We can focus on a small area that requires reconciliation rather than demanding a recount across the board.

    This proves to me that even though our nations Constitution is the oldest of the modern democracies, it is still as pertinent as if it were penned yesterday. I feel that God guided our forefathers when they drafted our Constitution.
    <><
  12. #92  
    Originally posted by LanMan
    Imagine if you will the chaos that now permeates Florida, yet spread to a national scale. If we were to go by the popular vote alone, then I feel that instead of a few counties in Florida processing votes by hand, we would see counties across the country doing recounts. The popular vote is still extremely close by Presidential terms. The Electorate narrows the scope of this contention. We can focus on a small area that requires reconciliation rather than demanding a recount across the board.
    Interesting scenario. I have never said I want to abolish the electoral college; I want it to be proportionate instead of "winner take all."
    James Hromadka, TreoCentral Editor
    Houston - EST. 1836
  13.    #93  
    James, you may not be interested in doing away with the Electorate, but the new NY senator has already said that she will make this a goal. Hillary is of course grand-standing, because there is already a motion in the House to get rid of the College.
    <><
  14. #94  
    Originally posted by LanMan

    Imagine if you will the chaos that now permeates Florida, yet spread to a national scale. If we were to go by the popular vote alone, then I feel that instead of a few counties in Florida processing votes by hand, we would see counties across the country doing recounts. The popular vote is still extremely close by Presidential terms. The Electorate narrows the scope of this contention. We can focus on a small area that requires reconciliation rather than demanding a recount across the board.
    And imagine what would have happened when Gore won the popular vote on election night and became the next President. It may have been close, but Gore would have been announced the winner and that would have been the end.
  15. #95  
    My understanding is that the popular vote totals bandied about by commentators on Election Night are not the eventual true Popular Vote Totals. Further, a true count of the popular votes would have to include absentee/overseas ballots which are not available on Election Night.

    My point being, in a close election, the prediction of the "popular vote winner" on election night MAY be just as inaccurate as a prediction of the electoral vote winner. (Not to mention any potential recounts due to State Law, politician request, etc.)
  16. #96  
    Originally posted by LanMan
    James, you may not be interested in doing away with the Electorate, but the new NY senator has already said that she will make this a goal. Hillary is of course grand-standing, because there is already a motion in the House to get rid of the College.
    That's kinda grandstanding as well. It would take a constitutional amendment to get rid of the electoral college.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #97  
    Here is the situation:

    The country is evenly divided between Bush and Gore.
    Palm Beach County got really screwed up.
    Both parties are lying.
    No one likes Florida.

    Possible solutions:
    1) Put all 10 major canidates into a locked cage. Last person alive becomes President.
    [Advantage: Buchanan, I dunno, he just looks angry]
    2) Quake III Tournament decides the outcome.
    [Advantage: ???]
    3) Whoever can root Microsoft's source code server first wins. (Oh wait... I bet it runs NT.)
    [Advantage: Gore, he invented the Internet, so he should know how to run anything on it.]
    4) Drinking contest.
    [Advantage: Bush, do I really need to explain?]

    Kalrand
    The voice of reason
  18. #98  
    Originally posted by kalrand
    Here is the situation:

    The country is evenly divided between Bush and Gore.
    Palm Beach County got really screwed up.
    Both parties are lying.
    No one likes Florida.

    Possible solutions:
    1) Put all 10 major canidates into a locked cage. Last person alive becomes President.
    [Advantage: Buchanan, I dunno, he just looks angry]
    2) Quake III Tournament decides the outcome.
    [Advantage: ???]
    3) Whoever can root Microsoft's source code server first wins. (Oh wait... I bet it runs NT.)
    [Advantage: Gore, he invented the Internet, so he should know how to run anything on it.]
    4) Drinking contest.
    [Advantage: Bush, do I really need to explain?]

    Kalrand
    The voice of reason
    I second the Quake III tournement... but we should let outsiders in too... maybe that way finaly we can have a wizzkid/geek as american Predident
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  19. #99  
    Originally posted by kalrand
    Possible solutions:
    1) Put all 10 major canidates into a locked cage. Last person alive becomes President.
    Heh. When this entire mess blew up, my wife said: "There is only one solution: Thunderdome...."
  20. #100  
    Originally posted by Winchell
    Originally posted by kalrand
    Possible solutions:
    1) Put all 10 major canidates into a locked cage. Last person alive becomes President.
    Heh. When this entire mess blew up, my wife said: "There is only one solution: Thunderdome...."
    hehe...I had the same idea. I think Browne would have a good shot at winning that way.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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