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  1. #61  
    These people aren't even people.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    These people are not insurgents.
    First, you don't know who they are and why they did what they were doing, and second, it doesn't matter. The man was wounded, they finished him off. Good for you if you like it.
    Last edited by clulup; 08/11/2005 at 11:58 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    First, you don't know who they are and why they did what they were doing, and second, it doesn't matter. They man was wounded, they finished him off. Good for you if you like it.
    He sure wasn't the milkman!
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    First, you don't know who they are and why they did what they were doing, and second, it doesn't matter. They man was wounded, they finished him off. Good for you if you like it.
    I may not know who they are, and certainly you dont know who they are, but I would imagine that this was some kind of helicopter spport of American troops that were engaged with these terrorists. How come there are no American POW's. Somehow they all seem to get killed after they get captured.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    These people aren't even people.
    That's exactly what they think about you, so at least you agree on someting.

    Remember the video with the guy who got shot in front of his humvee, then followed his attackers, caught and treated one of them because he was wounded? He's really cool. Not you, as it seems.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    First, you don't know who they are and why they did what they were doing, and second, it doesn't matter. They man was wounded, they finished him off. Good for you if you like it.
    I know you think of us as wild west gunslingers, but more than likely there was a valid reason to fire on them.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    How come there are no American POW's. Somehow they all seem to get killed after they get captured.
    If you feel comfortable with being like the terrorists in that respect, fair enough. It's not legal to shoot wounded, helpless ennemies lying on the ground, but hey, who cares? Not you, right?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  8. #68  
    Clulup....I don't know if you have seen any one of the several posts in the Good, Bad Iraq thread showing hundreds of insurgents AND terrorists captured and detained by the international forces. If that thread included Afghanistan, then there would be hundreds upon hundreds more that have been captured and detained.

    I am not making any excuses for the video linked above. I do not know what lead up that, I do not know what intel they had, I do not know what the insurgents or terrorists were trying to do, I do not know what civilian liabilities were nearby (possibly a hospital or school which they have proven to target in the past), I do not know what weapons or bombs he had on him, I do not know what supplies or weapons were in the trucks that he could have had at his disposal, I do not know what affiliation they had...i.e. whether they were insurgents or terrorists. Without that information, I am not able to pass judgement. But when you are dealing with an enemy that straps bombs to cars, on their chests, have a supply of anti-aircraft rockets, targeting civilians, leave no one behind but the dead with a kill all mission statement, ect.....there are times when all information needs to evaluated collectively to determine the justification of actions taken while in the heat of a battlefield.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I know you think of us as wild west gunslingers, but more than likely there was a valid reason to fire on them.
    I know "you" are not all the same (see example above), and I guess it was ok to shoot the people on the field - not that we can tell for sure, maybe they were just farmers unloading something, caught in the crossfire? None of them carried an assault rifle, an RPG, or anything similar, as it seems. Wouldn't be the first time innocent people are shot, right? However, the last person alive was clearly wounded, lying on the floor, without being any danger, and the they finished him off ("Roger, he's wounded, fire!").

    Are those your rules of engagement, killing wounded who are no threat any more? I'm really interested...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Clulup....I don't know if you have seen any one of the several posts in the Good, Bad Iraq thread showing hundreds of insurgents AND terrorists captured and detained by the international forces. If that thread included Afghanistan, then there would be hundreds upon hundreds more that have been captured and detained.

    I am not making any excuses for the video linked above. I do not know what lead up that, I do not know what intel they had, I do not know what the insurgents or terrorists were trying to do, I do not know what civilian liabilities were nearby (possibly a hospital or school which they have proven to target in the past), I do not know what weapons or bombs he had on him, I do not know what supplies or weapons were in the trucks that he could have had at his disposal, I do not know what affiliation they had...i.e. whether they were insurgents or terrorists. Without that information, I am not able to pass judgement. But when you are dealing with an enemy that straps bombs to cars, on their chests, have a supply of anti-aircraft rockets, targeting civilians, leave no one behind but the dead with a kill all mission statement, ect.....there are times when all information needs to evaluated collectively to determine the justification of actions taken while in the heat of a battlefield.
    I don't know about the people, probably they were terrorists, though it seems surprising that they don't carry arms, nor try to shoot back, or take proper cover. I am only talking about the last person shot. He was obviously wounded (according to the person speaking in the background), and they finished him off. Granted, that's what terrorists would do...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  11. #71  
    I think your prejudice is getting in the way of reasoning. Again, if they had intel that this group had deployed a remote activated bomb in a hospital or school, and all it took was a push of a speed dial from a cell phone, he still posed a real and dangerous threat.

    If they new that the truck he was crawling to had anti-aircraft weapons, he still posed a real and dangerous threat.

    If the fact that the enemy found out that their team had been eliminated and that knowledge would put any of the International Forces or civilians in danger, he still potentially posed a real and dangerous threat.

    If he had knowledge about the International Forces that could put them in danger and other insurgents or terrorists were close by to rescue him and then in turn obtain that dangerous information, he still posed a real and dangerous threat.

    The point is we don't know how much of a threat he still offered from that 15 sec video clip to determine whether their actions where honorable or not.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 08/11/2005 at 01:20 PM.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I know "you" are not all the same (see example above), and I guess it was ok to shoot the people on the field - not that we can tell for sure, maybe they were just farmers unloading something, caught in the crossfire? None of them carried an assault rifle, an RPG, or anything similar, as it seems. Wouldn't be the first time innocent people are shot, right? However, the last person alive was clearly wounded, lying on the floor, without being any danger, and the they finished him off ("Roger, he's wounded, fire!").

    Are those your rules of engagement, killing wounded who are no threat any more? I'm really interested...
    Sorry Clu, got caught up in another thread.

    Anyways, I can't really give you an answer to the video, it is only what, thirty seconds or so? I don't know what led up to it, I don't know what was in the vehicles. Were they firing RPG's? Were the vehicles rigged with explosives? Are there other weapons out of the cameras view?

    I only looked at the video once, I've seen combat first hand, and don't have the need to fixate on videos of people getting killed. So, how badly wounded was he? He was obviously moving. Given any of the scenarios I mentioned, are you comfortable with those men just leaving him there, perhaps to pull out another weapon from the vehicle?

    I think there is probably more to the video than what you see. I doubt the servicemen were just out "duck hunting."
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    If you feel comfortable with being like the terrorists in that respect, fair enough. It's not legal to shoot wounded, helpless ennemies lying on the ground, but hey, who cares? Not you, right?
    They cut civilians heads off.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    If you feel comfortable with being like the terrorists in that respect, fair enough. It's not legal to shoot wounded, helpless ennemies lying on the ground, but hey, who cares? Not you, right?
    Not really. Do you care that your country and it's bankers are used to funnel money to terriorists?? Hmmmm??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  15. #75  
    ah ...nothing like a war to bring out the best and worst in people

    .
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  16. NRG
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       #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Not really. Do you care that your country and it's bankers are used to funnel money to terriorists?? Hmmmm??
    Kinda like Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI)?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    That was a small bank, but yeah...like that.

    Swiss Banks and Terrorism
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  18. NRG
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       #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    That was a small bank, but yeah...like that.
    Small? I would disagree. Look here at the first paragraph:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    The Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) was a major international bank founded in Pakistan in 1972. At its peak, it operated in 78 countries, had over 400 branches, and claimed assets of $25 billion.
  19. #79  
    Chase Manhattan Bank, the world's largest, has assets of over $365B
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Sorry Clu, got caught up in another thread.

    Anyways, I can't really give you an answer to the video, it is only what, thirty seconds or so? I don't know what led up to it, I don't know what was in the vehicles. Were they firing RPG's? Were the vehicles rigged with explosives? Are there other weapons out of the cameras view?

    I only looked at the video once, I've seen combat first hand, and don't have the need to fixate on videos of people getting killed. So, how badly wounded was he? He was obviously moving. Given any of the scenarios I mentioned, are you comfortable with those men just leaving him there, perhaps to pull out another weapon from the vehicle?

    I think there is probably more to the video than what you see. I doubt the servicemen were just out "duck hunting."
    I appreciate your comments. I don't know who the men were and what they were doing, I suppose and hope the people in the helicopter knew better. The third and last person is fired at twice. After the first time, he rolls slowly and unsteadily on the floor, OUT of cover, into plain view of the helicopter. He lies there motionless, apparently on his side, back to the helicopter. The voice says "He's wounded - hit him... go forward, hit him."

    No need to post videos like that...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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