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  1.    #1  
    Analysts: Bill won’t wean U.S. off foreign oil
    Demand expected to rise despite measures in proposed legislation

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8705656/

    WASHINGTON - Despite repeated calls by President Bush and members of Congress to decrease U.S. dependence on oil imports, a major energy bill that appears headed for passage this week would do nothing to reduce the country's need for foreign oil, according to analysts and interest groups.

    The United States imports 58 percent of the oil it consumes. Federal officials project that by 2025, the country will have to import 68 percent of its oil to meet demand. At best, analysts say, the energy legislation would slightly slow that rate of growth of dependence.
    I really do think that our dependence on foreign oil is a very big national security concern. If we were at war, supplying countries could stop shipping oil to us. There could naval blockades that could limit oil that reaches us. Some well placed terrorist attacks could disrupt our flow of oil or our ability to bring it on shore. Oil is probably one of the quickest ways to cripple our economy.

    There was a mock test of what could happen if terrorist attacked our oil infrastructure in this country. The cost rose to over $130 a barrel....more than double what it is now. Imagine paying $4.50 a gallon for gas.

    There are other alternatives. Shorter term to increase our oil produce to become independent or at least we would be our own major oil supplier.

    Alternative fuel sources. Fuel cells. Electrical Hybrids. Ethanol or other agriculture-derived fuels. But all these are longer term solutions due to need for further R&D, implementing the new technology into main stream use, etc... But even if these are long term solutions, I feel we need to be doing more now to move these options along. If don't start to push now, these long term solutions become longer term and more delayed solutions.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    There was a mock test of what could happen if terrorist attacked our oil infrastructure in this country. The cost rose to over $130 a barrel....more than double what it is now. Imagine paying $4.50 a gallon for gas.
    You mean like in Europe?
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    You mean like in Europe?
    That difference is mostly taxes.

    I agree. People get out of your cars! Ride the bus or carpool one day a week. Walk, bike, or run to work.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    That difference is mostly taxes.

    I agree. People get out of your cars! Ride the bus or carpool one day a week. Walk, bike, or run to work.
    The difference is taxes, but I guess my point was people do this each and every day. I would love to have a shower and closet here at work. I'd run to and from work every day (well, four days a week. The other I'd bring in new clothes via car). If only...
  5. #5  
    I actually do bike to work and school everyday (not just for the environment but for health reasons). The next new car I buy will be a hybrid...I like the toyota and honda ;-)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    The difference is taxes, but I guess my point was people do this each and every day. I would love to have a shower and closet here at work. I'd run to and from work every day (well, four days a week. The other I'd bring in new clothes via car). If only...
    Yes, I must say that I am lucky to have a shower at work. However, I so enjoy bike commuting as my main exercise, I would do it anyway and figure out a way to look tidy.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I actually do bike to work and school everyday (not just for the environment but for health reasons). The next new car I buy will be a hybrid...I like the toyota and honda ;-)
    Right there with Ya. (bike three days a week) And if I do buy a new(er) car, it will be a diesel hybrid running biodiesel.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I actually do bike to work and school everyday (not just for the environment but for health reasons). The next new car I buy will be a hybrid...I like the toyota and honda ;-)
    I saw a report on the local news the other day (probably on KCAL9 - you know, 15 hours of news programming, you need to fill it with something) that it would take far too long to offset the higher cost of a hybrid vehicle with the savings in fuel costs.

    My sister has a Hybrid Civic though. Likes it, but isn't seeing that big a deal on savings.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Right there with Ya. (bike three days a week) And if I do buy a new(er) car, it will be a diesel hybrid running biodiesel.
    But...you'll smell like a French Fry!!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    But...you'll smell like a French Fry!!
    I might smell like one now. Or maybe I smell like catsup and want to compliment it.
  11. #11  
    I used to own a Civic Hybrid 2003, it was a rockstar. Pretty peppy and I'd average about 47 to 48 MPG on my 90 mile (both ways) commute every day. I ended up trading it in after aboutw 2.5 years for a Jeep Wrangler. That thing just vomits smog out the exhaust and gets about 19 to 20 MPG at best.

    The Hybrid's a great car, but it's quite expensive, and we're just not quite there yet. The optimized gasoline always ran because it's got IMA (Integrated Motor Assist), where the DC motor sits between the engine and the transmission. I'd save brakes too by using the DC motor to help slow down (every DC motor is also a DC generator).

    We could always tap the Alaskan reserves if we needed to. The problem with alternate fuel vehicles, like Electric, Hydrogen (fuel-cell), and even Hybrid is there is still an energy dependence and sometimes the energy required to generate the alternate fuel source uses more fossil fuels and energy than gasoline.

    Nuclear fusion would be the answer since there are no byproducts, but I don't think we're quite there yet.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilghost
    The problem with alternate fuel vehicles, like Electric, Hydrogen (fuel-cell), and even Hybrid is there is still an energy dependence and sometimes the energy required to generate the alternate fuel source uses more fossil fuels and energy than gasoline.

    Nuclear fusion would be the answer since there are no byproducts, but I don't think we're quite there yet.
    Actually I support fission over fossil fuels.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I saw a report on the local news the other day (probably on KCAL9 - you know, 15 hours of news programming, you need to fill it with something) that it would take far too long to offset the higher cost of a hybrid vehicle with the savings in fuel costs.

    My sister has a Hybrid Civic though. Likes it, but isn't seeing that big a deal on savings.
    LOL-Kcal.

    You're right that the higher price of the car doesnt offset the lower consumption of fuel...but I am actually willing to pay more for a car to drive if it consumes less fuel overall...even if it doesnt make much economical sense.

    IMO, car manufacturers have no interest in building hybrids and other options (and I am surprised in some ways that they are). The main reason is supply and demand. The cars cost more and people are short term thinkers (in general) so they buy the cheaper car. The only real way to get people to buy hybrids over conventional cars is to offer tax incentives and such to artifically change the market. (I know...taxes...it goes against my wish of a flat tax system). Change the 20k prius to 15k with a tax break and I think more people would buy them.

    I am actually proud of the car companies who are working on it (at least they see down the road that fossil fuels will not be there forever.)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  14. #14  
    One of these days a scientist will genetically modify a soybean or corn such that very little processing will make it ooze gasoline. That will solve everything. Sure, burning it will release a whole lot of carbon, but where was the carbon before? Yep. In our air. So it's a giant spinning carbon wheel with the sun providing the push. Now, we burn carbon that was in our air millions of years ago (which was then "eaten" by plants, they died, decayed, turned into oil, blah blah blah).
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yes, I must say that I am lucky to have a shower at work. However, I so enjoy bike commuting as my main exercise, I would do it anyway and figure out a way to look tidy.
    I have to wear a suit, so it would be difficult. I walk in on weekends when the temperature is below 90 (so basically October through March).
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    One of these days a scientist will genetically modify a soybean or corn such that very little processing will make it ooze gasoline. That will solve everything.
    Hmmm...a car that runs on tofu.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  17. #17  
    (Mild nudge back on topic)
    One of the prime causes for the start of World War II was Japan's depedence on oil.

    I read somewhere that we are 20-30 years away from a productive form of fission. Until then, we are at the mercy of the big oil producing nations.

    IMO the car producers supress the development and implimentation of alternative fuels.
  18. #18  
    5 Letters ANWAR
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoxy
    5 Letters ANWAR
    There's very little oil there.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    There's very little oil there.
    How do you know? Only what, six people have ever been there.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
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