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  1. NRG
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       #1  
    Just as the title says I agree with this bill on premise, although I am sure our economy cannot handle such a mass exodus. But I like it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Washington Post
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - All of the estimated 10 million to 12 million illegal aliens in the United States would have to leave the country under an immigration bill introduced on Tuesday by two conservative Republican senators.

    The bill by Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl (news, bio, voting record) and Texas Sen. John Cornyn (news, bio, voting record) is a tougher alternative to a rival bipartisan bill introduced two month ago that would allow some illegals to get jobs legally and eventually gain citizenship without leaving the country.

    The Kyl-Cornyn bill calls for the creation of a machine-readable, tamper-proof Social Security card that would be issued to every American in the workforce to prevent illegals from getting jobs.

    It would also fund the hiring of 10,000 new Department of Homeland Security personnel dedicated to weeding illegal immigrants out of the workforce and an additional 1,000 for detecting immigration fraud.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050719/...immigration_dc
  2. #2  
    I've never understood the anger some have toward people who just want to go to work every day, pay their taxes and live their lives in peace. Give it a rest.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Just as the title says I agree with this bill on premise, although I am sure our economy cannot handle such a mass exodus. But I like it!
    I would like to see this one pass. It makes sense that senators from two of the states that are affected by illegal immigration the most are the ones sponsoring the bill.

    I don't expect those that don't live in places close to the problem to understand. (And really don't care if they don't)

    The only anger that I have is the lack of interest in upholding the law.
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  4. NRG
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       #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    I've never understood the anger some have toward people who just want to go to work every day, pay their taxes and live their lives in peace. Give it a rest.
    Illegal aliens cause more of a problem than you know. I come to this conclusion by the way you remarked. They are not paying their taxes!! Maybe sales tax and that is about it. But yet they use our schools, hospitals, public services, etc.. Plus not to mention they also effect wages.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    I've never understood the anger some have toward people who just want to go to work every day, pay their taxes and live their lives in peace. Give it a rest.

    there are several reasons for me -- the first is that we should be focused on the welfare and properity of those amongst who are already poor and perhaps jobless.

    When an undocumented illegal avails himself to work at any wage under any conditions, he directly competes against an american who might otherwise have gotten that job. If not for that abundant alternative supply of willing workers, employers would have to pay higher wages.

    Whether its construction, the resturant industry, or farming -- if workers were hard to get wages would rise, and poor workers would benefit.

    Its capitalism 101 -- over supply equals low worth -- scarcity commands value.

    Mass legal immigration harms those least able to compete, and benefits the richest and most powerful.
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  6. #6  
    It would also get my vote. Security of the nation aside, we either need to completely open the borders or inforce the laws IMHO. Technology can help us in the latter, the former is economically not workable. This is not the same country as it was in the 19th century. Ever visit an ER room in Arizona? Prepare to wait for hours while you're paying for the gentleman or gentlewoman's free healthcare who is sitting across the aisle from you. Meanwhile the infrasture is failing. Nations secure their borders for good reasons.
  7. NRG
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    there are several reasons for me -- the first is that we should be focused on the welfare and properity of those amongst who are already poor and perhaps jobless.

    When an undocumented illegal avails himself to work at any wage under any conditions, he directly competes against an american who might otherwise have gotten that job. If not for that abundant alternative supply of willing workers, employers would have to pay higher wages.

    Whether its construction, the resturant industry, or farming -- if workers were hard to get wages would rise, and poor workers would benefit.

    Its capitalism 101 -- over supply equals low worth -- scarcity commands value.

    Mass legal immigration harms those least able to compete, and benefits the richest and most powerful.
    This might help bolster you argument. The Economics of Immigration
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Illegal aliens cause more of a problem than you know. I come to this conclusion by the way you remarked. They are not paying their taxes!! Maybe sales tax and that is about it. But yet they use our schools, hospitals, public services, etc.. Plus not to mention they also effect wages.
    If they don't, ever wonder why? Because they don't have the chance. People are clamoring for their head, so they stay low. As for their effect on wages, again, who are we to say they can't work for whatever wages they want?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Mass legal immigration harms those least able to compete, and benefits the richest and most powerful.
    So because they prevent others from getting jobs (a questionable assertion) they are expected to sit by and not better themselves? That's a terribly selfish POV.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by robangel
    It would also get my vote. Security of the nation aside, we either need to completely open the borders or inforce the laws IMHO. Technology can help us in the latter, the former is economically not workable. This is not the same country as it was in the 19th century. Ever visit an ER room in Arizona? Prepare to wait for hours while you're paying for the gentleman or gentlewoman's free healthcare who is sitting across the aisle from you. Meanwhile the infrasture is failing. Nations secure their borders for good reasons.
    And the reason their healthcare is "free?" Because the system keeps them from proper enrollment through employment and other programs due to their status. You see legalized immigration as the cause of these delays and expenditures when instead it is the solution.
  11. NRG
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    If they don't, ever wonder why? Because they don't have the chance. People are clamoring for their head, so they stay low.
    No, I don't ask myself why. I know why, they ILLEGAL.


    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    As for their effect on wages, again, who are we to say they can't work for whatever wages they want?
    We already say, it is called "minimum wage".
  12. NRG
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       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    So because they prevent others from getting jobs (a questionable assertion) they are expected to sit by and not better themselves? That's a terribly selfish POV.
    That would be fine and dandy if they were not illegal and draining our public system.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    No, I don't ask myself why. I know why, they ILLEGAL.
    Seem simplistic. They are still humans.
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    We already say, it is called "minimum wage".
    And we are already wrong. When someone wants to work, they should be able to.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    That would be fine and dandy if they were not illegal and draining our public system.
    My argument is they would be more productive and a larger addition to our economy and culture if we didn't have witch hunts out there looking to "send them back where they came from."
  15. NRG
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       #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    My argument is they would be more productive and a larger addition to our economy and culture if we didn't have witch hunts out there looking to "send them back where they came from."
    It is fine by me if they stay, so long as they are LEGAL and paying taxes?

    Just wondering, do you use illegal labor?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    It is fine by me if they stay, so long as they are LEGAL and paying taxes?

    Just wondering, do you use illegal labor?
    No, but I don't use any labor.

    Would you be open to giving more people a chance to become permanent residents / citizens should they want to?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    No, but I don't use any labor.

    Would you be open to giving more people a chance to become permanent residents / citizens should they want to?
    Don't people have a chance already? Has there been a moratorium on legal immigration?
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  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Don't people have a chance already? Has there been a moratorium on legal immigration?
    There's a significant limit on it. Not everyone who wants to immigrate can.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    There's a significant limit on it. Not everyone who wants to immigrate can.
    Ahhh, got it. So you want easier immigration policies, yes?

    And if so, what about those who still come here illegally?

    It would seem if one is advocating illegal immigration to begin with, you would want to do away with the laws altogether, rather than just relax them.
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Ahhh, got it. So you want easier immigration policies, yes?

    And if so, what about those who still come here illegally?

    It would seem if one is advocating illegal immigration to begin with, you would want to do away with the laws altogether, rather than just relax them.
    We need to make it easier for those that want to become productive members of society (ours or someone else's) to live within the law, not beyond it. You need to keep track of people in this day and age, and so we can't just say come one come all, drop us a line if you want. But we should allow many more people to enter legally than we do now. That would cut down on illegal immigration, I think.
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