Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 58
  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by jamespaulritter
    I can see your point Dutch the differences are that daThomas is a member of the community who occasionaly brings up interesting topics for discussion and not a spammer like the guy who repeatedly posts testimonies in the treo forum.

    This is true. daThomas..I am sorry for comparing you to that dude. I do think think there are small similarities, but that guy obviously need serious help!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    But if no one have prayed for them they might have been worse off.
    There was a control group which received no prayer and no MIT.


    Bear in mind that there were earlier studies in this field which showed that prayer from others CAN positively affect a sick individual. I quote the article:

    ...the idea that praying for someone else -- even when they are unaware of it -- can affect a person's health has been much more controversial. Several studies have purported to show that such prayer is beneficial, but they have been criticized as deeply flawed. The debate prompted a spate of studies designed to avoid those shortcomings, including the new study, which is the first to test prayer at multiple centers.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by jamespaulritter
    I can see your point Dutch the differences are that daThomas is a member of the community who occasionaly brings up interesting topics for discussion and not a spammer like the guy who repeatedly posts testimonies in the treo forum.

    If off topic were flooded with preachings or flooded by one particular subject I would be ticked off.


    I guess your right it would have been a very interesting study if the results showed that the ones who were prayed for benifited.
    Even finding no effect can be informative. The big ball of knowledge always needs to be added to.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I don't believe you read this.
    I'm not following your comment. I did read the article and I agree with its findings.

    I can't find anywhere in the Bible suggesting that praying for non-believers will do anything for or to them.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    This is true. daThomas..I am sorry for comparing you to that dude. I do think think there are small similarities, but that guy obviously need serious help!
    No worries. I might be that guy.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    No worries. I might be that guy.
    Now that would be "extreme"
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    I'm not following your comment. I did read the article and I agree with its findings.

    I can't find anywhere in the Bible suggesting that praying for non-believers will do anything for or to them.
    Why do you feel the people being prayed for were "non-believers"?
  8. #28  
    For those of you who object to science trying to prove or disprove religion, please return the favor and don't use religion to prove or disprove science. Science tries to explain how the world works, and religion tries to give meaning and purpose to the world. Science is the "how" and religion is the "why".
    Zane
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Why do you feel the people being prayed for were "non-believers"?
    Just playing the percentages. They weren't identified as believers.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by zvandiver
    For those of you who object to science trying to prove or disprove religion, please return the favor and don't use religion to prove or disprove science. Science tries to explain how the world works, and religion tries to give meaning and purpose to the world. Science is the "how" and religion is the "why".
    Zane
    Amen.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by zvandiver
    For those of you who object to science trying to prove or disprove religion, please return the favor and don't use religion to prove or disprove science. Science tries to explain how the world works, and religion tries to give meaning and purpose to the world. Science is the "how" and religion is the "why".
    Zane

    what are you talking about
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Just playing the percentages. They weren't identified as believers.
    What percentage do you feel do NOT share the belief in a judeo/christian deity?
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by zvandiver
    For those of you who object to science trying to prove or disprove religion, please return the favor and don't use religion to prove or disprove science. Science tries to explain how the world works, and religion tries to give meaning and purpose to the world. Science is the "how" and religion is the "why".
    Zane
    Science tries to explain why humans need superstitious beliefs to apply meaning to existence.
  14. #34  
    Im all for open discussion and checking all possibilities.

    Pet therapy is proven to increase recovery in subjects as well as simple details such as keeping the blinds to patient rooms open. So to study the effects of prayer seems odd because either the effects will show nothing, show something that is biased or show something that was affected by unknown factors other that prayer.

    So even if the results showed .0001 difference there is no way you could possibly track down the cause. And how in the world would they guage the difference other than rewinding time and measuring the same subjects.

    It seems the only product of the study would be to get individuals talking about reasons for or against God.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by jamespaulritter
    Im all for open discussion and checking all possibilities.

    Pet therapy is proven to increase recovery in subjects as well as simple details such as keeping the blinds to patient rooms open. So to study the effects of prayer seems odd because either the effects will show nothing, show something that is biased or show something that was affected by unknown factors other that prayer.

    So even if the results showed .0001 difference there is no way you could possibly track down the cause. And how in the world would they guage the difference other than rewinding time and measuring the same subjects.

    It seems the only product of the study would be to get individuals talking about reasons for or against God.
    Not having actually read the method I can say that if the differences between groups were statistically significant then one would conclude here is something going on and future studies would attempt to replicate and/or narrow down the exact cause.

    You don't have to rewind and apply a diferent condition (since so far it's impossible and if it were possible would likely be seen as unethical) since you have randomly assigned enough people to the 4 different groups thus you have controlled for random differences.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    What percentage do you feel do NOT share the belief in a judeo/christian deity?
    Sorry for not being clear. I use the term "believer" to describe someone with an ongoing, daily relationship with God (not just a "I believe in God" kinda thing). From studies that I've read (don't have citations), these numbers are less than 50% of the general US population. Same reports showed a greater than 50% have "some" belief in a judeo/christian deity (as you state).

    I'm not trying to prove a point. I could be completely wrong in my figures. Just explaining my thought process.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Sorry for not being clear. I use the term "believer" to describe someone with an ongoing, daily relationship with God (not just a "I believe in God" kinda thing). From studies that I've read (don't have citations), these numbers are less than 50% of the general US population. Same reports showed a greater than 50% have "some" belief in a judeo/christian deity (as you state).

    I'm not trying to prove a point. I could be completely wrong in my figures. Just explaining my thought process.
    I'm pretty sure that if 30% of those being prayed for were "believers" and it was the criteria for prayer being effective, then it would show up statistically.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I'm pretty sure that if 30% of those being prayed for were "believers" and it was the criteria for prayer being effective, then it would show up statistically.
    Why do you believe that? Do you think the test would end up as a self-fulfilling prophesy? ... or are you buying into the article's comments about "religious" people being healthier?
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Why do you believe that? Do you think the test would end up as a self-fulfilling prophesy? ... or are you buying into the article's comments about "religious" people being healthier?
    You've stated that prayer is not affective for non-believers. I'm stating that by your numbers of average number of "believers" their would have been enough in the group by random assignment to account for this and show an effect if what you said were true.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You've stated that prayer is not affective for non-believers. I'm stating that by your numbers of average number of "believers" their would have been enough in the group by random assignment to account for this and show an effect if what you said were true.
    OK, I'm following you now. (as he puts on his statistics hat...)

    You are correct. I did state that I've never found anything in the Bible suggesting that "believers" praying for "non-believers" does anything. Does it logically follow that "believers" praying for "believers" would show something significant (by the numbers we're assuming)? I guess it would if "believer to believer" prayer for health improvement created an effect in a statistically significant number of cases.

    This sounds kinda dry but I'm just thinking through the old "null hypothesis"-stuff.

    Personally, I don't buy into prayer as "Hey, God, since I'm talking to you, you have to do what I say." I'm not sure where folks get that idea.
    Recognizing that I volunteered...
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions