View Poll Results: Is Computed [Pure] Communism Possible???

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I think it's got a shot.

    3 15.79%
  • Yes, capitalism will still be here for at least the next 50 years.

    0 0%
  • No, capitalism's the only way people will work.

    9 47.37%
  • No, capitalism provides innovation.

    7 36.84%
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  1.    #1  
    Here it is Darnell...come and get it!!

    Seeing as how all of us here have gotten a minor glimpse at the future with the 650 in our hands, do any of you think that one day PURE communism could come from an intelligent society that has a smartphone on their body at all times??

    If you're confused, lemme just give you an idea of how this works. Say in 10 years, your smartphone has Palm Linux, a 2 GHz processor, 512MB of RAM, EV-DV/UMTS, WiFi, WiMax, UWB, GPS, VGA resolution, a 20GB SD card...and it only costs each person say....$1,000 to buy it....including accessories and MOST typical applications, right?? Seems perfectly logical considering the rapid pace that technology has moved so far.

    But you use this phone as much more than a phone. You use it as your keys to unlock your car door and home. You use it as a smartphone when away from a monitor, but when you step with a certain distance of your wireless monitor, it automatically turns on...Palm Linux instead of Windows shows up on your OLED monitor. You wanna go grocery shopping?? No need to take it to the cashiers as it's all logged wirelessly in "THE DATABASE" we shall call it...thanks to your smartphone being able to log all RFID tags that you walk out with at the door.

    You can't speed because cars are designed with that limitation as they've got computers too, but if you could speed with an old car (an old Chevelle, for example) you'd automatically get a ticket without a cop because of the GPS. On vacation and want to find a good restaurant to eat?? GPS finds your location and gives recommended restaurants in the area. You continue to pull up their menu and order before you even get there without waiters.

    You're leaving high school and headed for college, but you're not sure what you want to do with your life. So, you list as many possibile job careers you think you'd love to do (because money is of no importance anymore...you're all getting paid the same) If you mark down comp sci. & poli sci. because you'd be happy with either one, you take classes in both until you either decide or if you remain undecided (and it happens to a lot of college students) then THE DATABASE kinda nudges you toward one area (say the comp sci. for example) because there need to be a lotta programmers for this massive database. Children get their own stipend, but a lot less than working adults. Perhaps people voted on every topic if they chose to, instead of having a representative democracy at all. So, basically...it's pure democracy, and pure communism. If someone chose not to vote, they don't have to. If someone chose not to work, they won't get paid. Get it?? OK...these are just ideas, obviously. What would work, what wouldn't...and why??

    Three very important things that I want to mention before I Submit this post/thread:

    (1) The government has competition within itself, yet it shares the stuff that would be obvious progressions. For example, there's 5 different Auto agencies...they design them differently, but if one designs a new form of engine is invented, allowing for triple the gas milage with 150% gains in horsepower...they gladly share their newly developed plan so that everybody benefits. Pretty much how Google is one company that has different groups, yet they share resources when needed.

    (2) I understand that a transition from capitalism to communism would be terribly hard...typically, what do the rich do with what they've already "earned" such as mansions, capital, yachts, etc?? The only thing I can come up with is that the government seizes them and rents them out to people who save up a little bit of money for a couple of days on the yacht or a theme park, etc. I'm going to assume that inheritances are the same way....forfeited over to the government

    (3) JOBS are split up like this...hard labor (i.e. - military, security, construction, garbage collectors, etc.), engineers (i.e. - programmers, civil, mechanical, environmental, biotech etc.), management (i.e. - politicians/lobbyists that debate on television for the fun of it so that the public could make better decisions, business managers, etc.), entertainers/artists (i.e. - athletes, musicians, actors/directors, painters, etc.), medical professionals (i.e. - doctors, nurses, athletic trainers, etc.), other academics (i.e. - anything from philosophy, history, math, teachers, consultants, etc.)

    I think that covers just about all jobs. The only jobs I'm not going to include are business owners, marketers, and salesman. I think that the new marketing system is word of mouth and information on the internet (not banners)...or essentially, sales would be a natural thing just from people picking brands today or talking to others found on forums such as this on the internet. For example, I brag about Sprint and Palm (mostly Handspring, really, they did the true innovating...but Palm did good in buying them out...at least in terms of trying to get the most capital, since we still are capitalists for right now). Some people might say..."Well, what is it that prevents everybody from just becoming a garbage man or postman??" I'd have to say that there'd still be a lot of people who would prefer to avoid those mundane tasks, and take the easy route of getting an education and doing something they LOVE doing instead of where they're going to get the MOST MONEY. Not that people love being a postman, but they certainly get more enjoyment out of it than reading/learning.

    I'm only 19 with no true knowledge or understanding of all details of the various economies. But philisophically, I tend to side with liberals a lot more than the conservatives, hence, me being a communist at heart.

    I just think I found out the reason for inflation recently. It's so that the pot of gold that floats around in our bank accounts and wallets/pockets is constantly expanding. It expands for the expanding number of employees so that the average. But, then...isn't it expaning too fast since the average wage is an ever growing number. Not that that large number has a larger true value, though.

    But at any rate, I'd enjoy hearing why my idea would or wouldn't work. Go ahead and educate me, ya buncha capitalists.

    Thanks in advance.
  2.    #2  
    Sorry about the poll options, BTW. I didn't really know what else to put.

    I try to break it down further than just yes or no...but this was a tricker poll than carriers who sucks more...
  3. #3  
    <moved>
  4. #4  
    With a very vocal population driven to ensure continued civil liberties in the US, I can't see this happening...at least not in the US. Though the "convenience" items you list are well within reason, the "Big Brother" items, IMO, are not.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    With a very vocal population driven to ensure continued civil liberties in the US, I can't see this happening...at least not in the US. Though the "convenience" items you list are well within reason, the "Big Brother" items, IMO, are not.
    But...you can't deny that the "Big Brother" items are inevitable. I mean, first...nobody wanted a Social Security number. Finally, we gottem.

    Then there's that rider bill that's attached to the Iraq emergency spending bill...the REAL ID ACT -- where we have a national database with a national ID. I mean, the whole point of Government is Control/Security...and they're going to get it. How else can you control a population of a half a billion people...or a billion people, even??

    One of my Comp Sci teachers pointed out to me that one day (if we make it that far without nuking each other up), computers will be implanted in our brains at birth. And yea, it seems weird, but highly possible.

    I think the thing that scares people is that there's nothing watching BIG BROTHER and that the people are the ones that are transparent. But, it's supposed to be the other way around. We're supposed to know what the Government is doing, not the other way around. I'm not sure how it'd work exactly. That's why I started this thread/poll.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    ...
    One of my Comp Sci teachers pointed out to me that one day (if we make it that far without nuking each other up), computers will be implanted in our brains at birth. And yea, it seems weird, but highly possible.....
    I think your teacher spends a little too much time in the sci-fi section. You make this statement as thought he knows it will be a fact. Complete hogwash.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  7. #7  
    We're not supposed to be introduced to the Borg for another 300-400 years...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  8. #8  
    resistance is futile

  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big_OTR_Fan
    resistance is futile

    I would gladly let her assimilate me

    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But...you can't deny that the "Big Brother" items are inevitable. I mean, first...nobody wanted a Social Security number. Finally, we gottem.
    And Income Tax was supposed to be temporary. Hey, so were the toll booths in Florida...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Then there's that rider bill that's attached to the Iraq emergency spending bill...the REAL ID ACT -- where we have a national database with a national ID. I mean, the whole point of Government is Control/Security...and they're going to get it. How else can you control a population of a half a billion people...or a billion people, even??
    While no doubt someday we'll be the Jetsons, flying our vehicles, the thought that we would all become "identical" is, in my mind, absurd. If that's the hope, then less defuse the entire US Military right now, because millions of soldiers gave their lives over the years so we call COULD be diverse.

    The SS# are a means of identification, and... guess what? They aren't required. Yep - you don't HAVE to have one. And for that matter, you don't have to pass it out either (you can tag credit apps with the UNIQUE id provided by the reporting agencies if you want). Forgoing (or even turning in) your SSN will deprive you of some benefits, but it's certainly not required in order to "live" here. Heck, neither are greenbacks for that matter. You could just become a common law citizen (good luck surviving though - you'd have to live on your own without any form of technology or printed currency - get a scale and dig for gold, or barter for that used water pump).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    One of my Comp Sci teachers pointed out to me that one day (if we make it that far without nuking each other up), computers will be implanted in our brains at birth. And yea, it seems weird, but highly possible.
    It's common that college students would "absorb" context from professors then analyze it and pose what if questions. But that's all this is. I'd say the only possible acceptance the general population would make is an identifier chip (kinda like the one in my dog in case she gets lost).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I think the thing that scares people is that there's nothing watching BIG BROTHER and that the people are the ones that are transparent. But, it's supposed to be the other way around. We're supposed to know what the Government is doing, not the other way around. I'm not sure how it'd work exactly. That's why I started this thread/poll.
    Ugh, to think the government has total and utter control over every single thing we do is... well... an uneducated statement. While we may not know nor understand everything going on "behind the scenes," the so-called Big Brother would never survive trying to force millions of Americans to subject themselves to being implanted with chips, forgoing their salaries and making themselves "equal" in every sense.

    The result would simply be... boredom. Diversity is key to true survival in every sense. Otherwise, all you're doing to surviving life itself, which would make us no different than prior-Iraq.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  11. TxDot's Avatar
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    #11  
    PURE communisum is impossible due to the inherent nature of mankind. Greed, selfishness and all the other things we see in each other every day will never allow it. Intelligence has nothing to do with it and smartphones even less.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    PURE communisum is impossible due to the inherent nature of mankind. Greed, selfishness and all the other things we see in each other every day will never allow it. Intelligence has nothing to do with it and smartphones even less.
    What a fine summary!!

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    I think your teacher spends a little too much time in the sci-fi section. You make this statement as thought he knows it will be a fact. Complete hogwash.
    He apparently used to know Dennis Ritchie (the guy that designed the C programming language; how well he knew him I have no idea. I also have no idea if it's going to be fact or not, neither do you.

    But what I do know is that everyday we live, more "sci-fi" becomes reality. It's amazing. Borgs/Cyborgs to me, really don't seem that far-fetched. I remember hearing that Bill Gates wouldn't want a computer chip in his brain (he stated it as: I want myself over here and the computer over there, or something like that). But relative to him, computers crash all the time and aren't all that intuitive...If he used Linux or OS X, maybe he'd reconsider it.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    He apparently used to know Dennis Ritchie (the guy that designed the C programming language; how well he knew him I have no idea. I also have no idea if it's going to be fact or not, neither do you.

    But what I do know is that everyday we live, more "sci-fi" becomes reality. It's amazing. Cyborgs to me, really don't seem that far-fetched. I remember hearing that Bill Gates wouldn't want a computer chip in his brain (he stated it as: I want myself over here and the computer over there, or something like that). But relative to him, computers crash all the time and aren't all that intuitive...If he used Linux or OS X, maybe he'd reconsider it.
    Oh well that gives his statement a whole new flavor of validity...NOT! I don't care if he knows Lionel Ritchie. He cannot say with any certainty that we will have computers put in our heads at birth. Completely stupid. Good example of professors feeding young minds full of bs that for some reason tries to become fact.

    Communism has failed in every attempt so far. Having treos isn't going to make it work.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #15  
    Well, maybe if he could hook me up with Nicole Ritchie...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    PURE communisum is impossible due to the inherent nature of mankind. Greed, selfishness and all the other things we see in each other every day will never allow it. Intelligence has nothing to do with it and smartphones even less.
    Greed is only half the issue with a pure communisum system. The other half is laziness and those trying to milk they system for everything they can with doing as little as possible. I have seen some research on the subject claim that this is the biggest challenge to comm system.....lack of motivation due to lack of recognition or compensation of ones own initiative to succeed. What incentive is there to provide the best service?

    Now as far as technology.....there is some pretty far fetch realities already working or being worked right now. For example I was watching a documentary last night. One of the sections was talking about companies are developing optical nerve implants where you can watch TV through the optical nerve implant....without anyone around you knowing.

    There are also companies that are planning on offering medical ID / History implants, Credit card ID implants, etc...
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 07/10/2005 at 04:39 PM.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    And Income Tax was supposed to be temporary. Hey, so were the toll booths in Florida...
    I dunno nuffin' 'bout taxes. Remember, I'm a college student.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    While no doubt someday we'll be the Jetsons, flying our vehicles, the thought that we would all become "identical" is, in my mind, absurd. If that's the hope, then less defuse the entire US Military right now, because millions of soldiers gave their lives over the years so we call COULD be diverse.
    Communism doesn't equate to identical. That's why I'm saying that the government must have different branches of branches. These sub-branches equate to different companies in a certain industry. I hear that communism failed because of everybody wearing the same type of clothes. Who says that you can't have fashion/individuality while all getting paid the same wages [as long as you work]??

    And believe me, I'm just as grateful as you our for our freedoms and diversity, but what I'm saying is that there are still problems with capitalism. It's not perfect. We should constantly be striving to change for the better, not the worse. That same C.S. teacher also said..."It's not so important that you choose right or wrong, but that you just move forward." But I DO disagree with that statement...how can the wrong decision help you move forward. Over time...yes! People will recognize what went wrong and try
    to correct it. But why not just do the right thing from the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    The SS# are a means of identification, and... guess what? They aren't required. Yep - you don't HAVE to have one. And for that matter, you don't have to pass it out either (you can tag credit apps with the UNIQUE id provided by the reporting agencies if you want). Forgoing (or even turning in) your SSN will deprive you of some benefits, but it's certainly not required in order to "live" here. Heck, neither are greenbacks for that matter. You could just become a common law citizen (good luck surviving though - you'd have to live on your own without any form of technology or printed currency - get a scale and dig for gold, or barter for that used water pump).
    The SS# is true for now. I didn't know that you don't HAVE to have a SSN, though. But the national ID thing is prolly going to change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    It's common that college students would "absorb" context from professors then analyze it and pose what if questions. But that's all this is. I'd say the only possible acceptance the general population would make is an identifier chip (kinda like the one in my dog in case she gets lost).
    Believe me, I analyze as much as I can. But no matter how much I analyze, I can't see why this couldn't be possible in the future. I'd kinda wanna chip if it provided me with a Palm Pilot in my brain. Wanna call somebody?? Just say their name...or maybe think it. There would be no need to memorize numbers anymore, just names. But...like I said, if we don't blow each other up, I think that that "identifier chip" would be the bare minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Ugh, to think the government has total and utter control over every single thing we do is... well... an uneducated statement. While we may not know nor understand everything going on "behind the scenes," the so-called Big Brother would never survive trying to force millions of Americans to subject themselves to being implanted with chips, forgoing their salaries and making themselves "equal" in every sense.
    It doesn't have control over EVERY single thing, but that's it's purpose, like I said - safety and control...to paint lines on the road so we don't crash into one another...to have a military for protection and to prevent uprisings from within. Again...if we all had a smartphone with technology maybe 5 to 10 years down the road, I think it could be possible but I know it won't due to our current economic state (he who has the gold, makes the rules).

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    The result would simply be... boredom. Diversity is key to true survival in every sense. Otherwise, all you're doing to surviving life itself, which would make us no different than prior-Iraq.
    I don't think it would be boredom - I don't see how communism means we all have to buy the same looking car or clothes or what have you. I'm talking about engineers designing engines and you designing what the car looks like. I think we work more than we have to now in this "transition phase" that I'd like to call it. I'm talking about working smarter, not harder. All of us here know that PDAs assist us in our lives, they don't control what we do, we control them while they make our lives A LOT easier.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    ... <snip> ... Good example of professors feeding young minds full of bs that for some reason tries to become fact. ... <snip> ...
    The educational establishment does not take responsibility about feeding the young minds with incorrect reasoning.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    The educational establishment does not take responsibility about feeding the young minds with incorrect reasoning.
    Ward Churchill
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I dunno nuffin' 'bout taxes. Remember, I'm a college student.
    Any entry level history or government class should be teaching this... on how income tax came into play in the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Communism doesn't equate to identical. That's why I'm saying that the government must have different branches of branches. These sub-branches equate to different companies in a certain industry. I hear that communism failed because of everybody wearing the same type of clothes. Who says that you can't have fashion/individuality while all getting paid the same wages [as long as you work]??
    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    And believe me, I'm just as grateful as you our for our freedoms and diversity, but what I'm saying is that there are still problems with capitalism. It's not perfect. We should constantly be striving to change for the better, not the worse. That same C.S. teacher also said..."It's not so important that you choose right or wrong, but that you just move forward." But I DO disagree with that statement...how can the wrong decision help you move forward. Over time...yes! People will recognize what went wrong and try
    to correct it. But why not just do the right thing from the beginning.
    Because, as you get older you'll learn that it's just not possible. The ways we learn HOW to do things right is by screwing up. Those who always do things right are most likely copying from someone else which means... ta-sa - they AREN't DIVERSE.

    Additionally, we learn from ourselves - by our own experiences. For example, how many High School students do you think you could convince that they'll miss those days for the rest of their lives. All the while they just want to get out. We don't realize how important those days were until they are gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    The SS# is true for now. I didn't know that you don't HAVE to have a SSN, though. But the national ID thing is prolly going to change that.
    May I ask what college you go to? I'd be interested in speaking to their Dean to find out why standard government courseware isn't being taught.

    As for income tax, if government texts bore you, just go read up on Frank Zappa's pledge for running for president - it's all right there.


    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Believe me, I analyze as much as I can. But no matter how much I analyze, I can't see why this couldn't be possible in the future. I'd kinda wanna chip if it provided me with a Palm Pilot in my brain. Wanna call somebody?? Just say their name...or maybe think it. There would be no need to memorize numbers anymore, just names. But...like I said, if we don't blow each other up, I think that that "identifier chip" would be the bare minimum.
    I can already call someone by name. I simply import and entire database into the Treo - done.

    It sounds like you're fascinated with the teaches of this professor, and that's great, but you have to look at the negative. Immortality sounds great too, but not at the expense of "not being human."


    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    It doesn't have control over EVERY single thing, but that's it's purpose, like I said - safety and control...to paint lines on the road so we don't crash into one another...to have a military for protection and to prevent uprisings from within. Again...if we all had a smartphone with technology maybe 5 to 10 years down the road, I think it could be possible but I know it won't due to our current economic state (he who has the gold, makes the rules).
    I don't understand what you are saying. If you're saying the government's purpose is to control EVERYTHING, sorry, but you are wrong. And he who has the gold may gather a following, but he doesn't necessarily make all the rules. This isn't Iraq. Many of this country's great leaders (not presidents) were not overly wealthy men and woman - but mostly people like the rest of us who had their own dreams and took the stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't think it would be boredom - I don't see how communism means we all have to buy the same looking car or clothes or what have you. I'm talking about engineers designing engines and you designing what the car looks like. I think we work more than we have to now in this "transition phase" that I'd like to call it. I'm talking about working smarter, not harder. All of us here know that PDAs assist us in our lives, they don't control what we do, we control them while they make our lives A LOT easier.
    I think you need to read up on what communism actually is...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
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