View Poll Results: Is Computed [Pure] Communism Possible???

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19. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I think it's got a shot.

    3 15.79%
  • Yes, capitalism will still be here for at least the next 50 years.

    0 0%
  • No, capitalism's the only way people will work.

    9 47.37%
  • No, capitalism provides innovation.

    7 36.84%
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  1. jstpa's Avatar
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    #121  
    The real impediment to smartphone communism is presbyopia.

    Grndslm, the thing that was missing in your first comment (although it has been touched on in later posts) is that the real heart and soul of the difference between capitalism and communism is who owns the means of production. We dwell on the tyranny that arose in most communist states, but tyranny is possible and is a historical fact in both economic systems.

    In communism, the means of production are supposed to be owned by all people in common. The problem of communism is how to effectuate that. Is property to be owned by the state, on the theory that the people are represented by the state? That seems to be the most common solution, and everyone in this thread appears to presume it, but it has substantial, if not insurmountable problems. The problem is assuring that state ownership equates to common ownership. This means at the very least safeguarding the voice of the people within the state. Once that voice is lost, the rule of the state becomes a rule of an elite. That is bad enough in a capitalist country, where the state has significant power but does not own the means of production; it is disastrous in a communist country, where ALL power AND OWNERSHIP is centralized in the state. Economically, the result is corruption on a grand scale (it can even be argued that it becomes a kind of private ownership - by the elite in control of the government.)

    In every case in a communist country, the government did in fact become the owner of the means of production - and in every case, representative government failed and an elite took over.

    The other problem with government ownership of the means of production is that the government all of a sudden becomes the arbiter of all decisions concerning supply and demand - on both sides. Most criticism I've seen of communism as an economic system hinges on the inability of government to guage demand and provide supply in appropriate areas without free market pricing mechanisms in place. It just hasn't worked.

    My 2 cents, and I'm no expert. In fact, I made all this up. All criticism welcome.
    Last edited by jstpa; 08/08/2005 at 11:05 AM.
  2.    #122  
    Oohh...I got one!! J/k.

    Anyway, all I have to say to that is that the impediment to smartphone communism is not presbyopia...if anything, it's myopia. But NO economic system, not even the great capitalist system, can see anything in the long-term. That's apparently why business owners rake in so much cash for betting on a business. If everybody knew how a certain business was going to do, most would start their own or invest stock in one.

    So, now that we understand no one can predict the future...we move on to the presbyopia. The near-term future is a little bit easier to gauge (at least compared to the long-term future). Whenever you rant about how former communist states failed because of tyrany and the state becoming an elite and the state becoming the owner of the means of production...I really don't think you understand the concept of what I'm talking about.

    Again...if everybody has this smartphone, why would we not be using the internet for all forms of governing and marketing?? That's my real number one question for you guys to which I haven't received an answer.

    You still seem to be stuck on the few inevitably controlling the many. It COULDN'T work like that in terms of governing, so long as some quality software were written to aid in writing new bills, distributing the bills that are proposed, discussing those same bills, and distributing those bills that are passed into laws.

    It also COULDN'T work the way you're proposing in terms of marketing, so long as some quality software were written to aid in gauging what people need, what people want, what people would buy, why they're actually buying, etc. That is why Microsoft is so special, no? They see where the market's headed and they adapt. Why couldn't the government do the same thing? If anything, I think the government could do it quicker/better if everybody had a smartphone with this software on it. All people would need to do is answer a coupla polls and rid themselves products they'd call crappy, unnecessary, or suffering from presbyopia. Marketing is done today on a very small scale (medium at most), but what happens when you take all the guessing out of it?? What happens when an idea is proposed, and within the day, within the hour, even, you know if people would buy it or not??

    Do you remember my earlier story about taking a trip to the ghetto in New Orleans, and they were having a whole BBQ block party?? Well, what if they all had smartphones that were all connected to each other on a small scale - the government and marketing attributes of this software were given solely to those living on a coupla blocks in the ghetto. They're saving enough money as is by just all cooking out, but if they could determine how much of each food their whole "posse" was in the mood to eat, while the person going to the grocery store was INSIDE the store...they'd easily save even more money from not overestimating the amount of macaroni & cheese and underestimating the amount of chicken.

    Do you guys understand my point? THE COMPUTERS HELP ELIMINATE WASTE!!! PDAs have always helped nerds eliminate time waste, even though nerds didn't waste that much time to begin with. And as soon as they help us all become the whole government and the whole market, without that representative word, they'll help us eliminate money waste!

    All citizens becoming the entire government and the entire market would only be possible with the internet connecting EVERY citizen together. Once that happens...why would we need a representative democracy? And why would we need capitalism to representatively judge what the people want? Why couldn't the people then become their own judges?!?!?

    That's the way it's SUPPOSED to work, is it not?? We are SUPPOSED to choose people to represent us, and they're SUPPOSED to choose what laws we want/need. We are SUPPOSED to choose products we want/need from a company, and they're SUPPOSED to continue selling us quality products we want/need. But as we all now, that's hardly the case. I'd give tons of examples, but I really don't think that I need to. You have tons of examples yourself in which a business or government didn't have you in mind. Aw heck, why not throw some out there...Microsoft, Exxon, George W. Bush (not even a real politician for pete's sake...and if you say he is, there's a 90% chance you're from Texas or happen to think that he's a real Christian), and jeez, even Palm makes the list. Is that the elite group that would control corruption in a grand communistic scale?? Capitalism has TONS of corruption and always will. There's no way outta corruption in a capitalist environment. Communism has had TONS of corruption for the same reason capitalism has and will continue to have it - greed! So, why will communism not have corruption (at least not on any grand scale, prolly only the tiniest of scales imaginable) in the future? You guessed it, folks...because of the smartphones which are all connected to the internet being OUR OWN checks and balances. We use them today to aid us in our life, why would we not use them in the future to aid us on that grand scale of government and marketing?? My thoughts are that instead of SUPPOSING to ween ourselves of oil, we will do it without big companies like Exxon controlling the legislature. My thoughts are that instead of SUPPOSING to ween ourselves of dependence on closed source products provided by Microsoft, we will build upon mature code available from Linux & BSD distributions and teach others the benefits they offer such as mostly being bug-free, virus-free, crash-free, and also PLAIN OL' FREE (With open software, it's possible to replicate the software a billion times over without any REAL burden or costs...people will realize it sooner or later and it will have features that even Microsoft couldn't dream of, nor even dream of marketing). This paragraph has gone on for far too long.

    Putting myself in your shoes for just a second, I'm trying to imagine an elite group coming from the far-left side. The ONLY group I could see turning into an elite group are the programmers writing this code and being in charge of this massive database.

    So, I'm going to attempt to swat any of those attempts beforehand by saying that this is an OPEN community/government/market - this is as far left as you can get. Those programmers would HAVE to keep their code open also. They would HAVE to keep the database open as well. Any citizen at any time can check this code and database to see if that's what they bought, if that's what they chose to vote on, etc. Some people may think it's a bad thing that their whole lives are thrown out into the open, and that they'll have no privacy. I could see this as being a problem for some, but why would you want to keep your choices secret/private?? I hear the word choice coming from the mouths of so many conservatives, so why would you be scared to share it?
    Last edited by grndslm; 08/09/2005 at 03:25 AM.
  3.    #123  
    Whew....that took a lot outta me.
  4. #124  
    Is this thread still here? I was on a long-overdue vacation...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    For mediasi...do you think you honestly earned that 90% that the government would end up taking??
    I work no less than 12 hour days, often 18 hour days. Usually weekends as well. Yes, I EARN the money in my pocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I have met quite a few business owners, and none of them seemed like they EARNED that money. You might be different, and you awfully seem like you have sincerity in your words, but MOST business owners don't do a damn thing, they just get lucky.
    Hop onto some Miva Merchant threads (that's the software I work with) and voice that to the users (almost ALL are small businesses) - and I'll tell you, we often here ofthe lucky ones, while the ones working the hardest are usually much more humble. My company has provided product and services to more than 6,000 small businesses and I am proud to say that the majority of them EARN their money. It's sad when you take a few you know and try to pass it off as real statistics. The MAJORITY of small businesses FAIL in the first three years, despite even the hardest of efforts, so to say the bulk of business is lucky is like saying horses that win races are just born running that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    It's a gamble....and I admit, I have no clue as to what I'm proposing would give people enough motivation to work or not. I have no clue until it's played out like I've said....with everybody having equal power, equal voting rights....just plain equality. You say it's not possible...I say it will be someday.
    Glad to hear it, but I don't think "equal pay" is motivation enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As for the American dollar....when everybody has a smartphone in their pocket that is faster than their desktop today, I don't believe that we will have the need for "printed" money. You'll just be given a number like 30,000, for example...and when you run out, you're done for the year.
    Nice, so when your child is afflicted with asthma, or if your house is lost due to fire (keep in mind, without a true insurance program nothing you propose would work in any way, shape or form) then your screwed. Guess the parents who save up all year so their son can go across the country to baseball camp are screwed too.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I honestly don't see how this thread can continue to go on with no proof on what the government of technocracy provides for us....and when mos people here are basing facts upon philisophical beliefs.
    Including yourself. And sorry, philosophical beliefs are NOT the base of my debates. Doesn't matter what I "feel" inside, what matters is history and reality.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Why is it that I can work for an hour and go to another country and live like the rest of them for five whole days?? It's just not fair...working at McDonald's for an hour is not any greater than working in another country for five days.
    OMG - ever hear of economics??? Maybe because in that country they make 5-cents an hour and you can't compare what they make and we make based solely on the value of their currency.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Anyway, all I have to say to that is that the impediment to smartphone communism is not presbyopia...if anything, it's myopia. But NO economic system, not even the great capitalist system, can see anything in the long-term. That's apparently why business owners rake in so much cash for betting on a business. If everybody knew how a certain business was going to do, most would start their own or invest stock in one.
    Now take what you said. Specifically...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But NO economic system, not even the great capitalist system, can see anything in the long-term.
    If you look at the failure of communism, you'll see what everyone here is saying.

    Now relate it to life - we live and we learn, and we learn from history.

    Somebody told you to look before you cross the street, right? So what do you do? You look.

    You were also taught that drinking bleach can kill ya. So what do you do? You don't drink it.

    We've been TAUGHT that communism is a failure. Get the point? If you don't, name one successful attempt at true communism. Take your time, I'll wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    So, now that we understand no one can predict the future...we move on to the presbyopia. The near-term future is a little bit easier to gauge (at least compared to the long-term future). Whenever you rant about how former communist states failed because of tyrany and the state becoming an elite and the state becoming the owner of the means of production...I really don't think you understand the concept of what I'm talking about.
    Then how about you explain it? Try common, laymen terms that everyone can understand, instead of textbook-style analogies. Right now, tell us, WHAT exactly is your concept (remember, 90% of getting someone to embrace your idea is them understanding it - and as of yet, if what we've argued about is not your case, then please, by all means, state it).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Again...if everybody has this smartphone, why would we not be using the internet for all forms of governing and marketing?? That's my real number one question for you guys to which I haven't received an answer.
    And at WHAT POINT did you ask this? You didn't...

    The Answer: WE ALREADY DO!

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    You still seem to be stuck on the few inevitably controlling the many. It COULDN'T work like that in terms of governing, so long as some quality software were written to aid in writing new bills, distributing the bills that are proposed, discussing those same bills, and distributing those bills that are passed into laws.
    Case in point. Who controls the many? The ones writing the software! This is 101, really. Surely you cannot still think that 100% of the population will be "team players." There will ALWAYS, FOREVER, and EVER be those who want to control - regardless of money.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    It also COULDN'T work the way you're proposing in terms of marketing, so long as some quality software were written to aid in gauging what people need, what people want, what people would buy, why they're actually buying, etc. That is why Microsoft is so special, no?
    No, it's not. Microsoft is special because they put out computers that were cheaper than anything out there. There were cute graphics and colors and a mouse, and WHOAH! everyone had to have one. Keep in mind that the primary users of DOS systems (before Windows) were businesses. THe rest of us primarily relied on Amigas, Commodores, old Vics, etc. Microsoft cornered the market on affordability (in fact, I bought one solely because I couldn't afford the MAC).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    They see where the market's headed and they adapt.
    Correction. Microsoft, in a big way, DEFINES the market. Then the followers adapt.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Why couldn't the government do the same thing?
    Go read up on Microsoft and you'll find your answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    If anything, I think the government could do it quicker/better if everybody had a smartphone with this software on it. All people would need to do is answer a coupla polls and rid themselves products they'd call crappy, unnecessary, or suffering from presbyopia. Marketing is done today on a very small scale (medium at most), but what happens when you take all the guessing out of it?? What happens when an idea is proposed, and within the day, within the hour, even, you know if people would buy it or not??
    1. You're proposing that everyone learn how to use a Smartphone - including those you can't even use a computer.

    2. Where do the handicapped play a role in this? You going to assign aides to all of them?

    3. Marketing of anything today is NOT on a small scale. Just look at your TV.

    4. You mean I shouldn't have to work hard developing something in case people just might want it? Oh, I didn't know business wasn't supposed to be a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Do you remember my earlier story about taking a trip to the ghetto in New Orleans, and they were having a whole BBQ block party??
    How could I forget.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Well, what if they all had smartphones that were all connected to each other on a small scale...
    They could all listen to Eminem in unison...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    - the government and marketing attributes of this software were given solely to those living on a coupla blocks in the ghetto. They're saving enough money as is by just all cooking out, but if they could determine how much of each food their whole "posse" was in the mood to eat, while the person going to the grocery store was INSIDE the store...they'd easily save even more money from not overestimating the amount of macaroni & cheese and underestimating the amount of chicken.
    So this is all about synching dinner menus? Oh, I'm all for that! My hubby sends me TXT while I'm at the grocery store. If my dog could also bark me a message to pick up some kibble, my life would be easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Do you guys understand my point?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    THE COMPUTERS HELP ELIMINATE WASTE!!!
    Garbage in, garbage out. Even with a smartphone.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    PDAs have always helped nerds eliminate time waste, even though nerds didn't waste that much time to begin with.
    Where on EARTH do you get your stats? Nerds also like to waste time!

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    And as soon as they help us all become the whole government and the whole market, without that representative word, they'll help us eliminate money waste!
    So it's about the government controlling our money - I see. Because *I* waste it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    All citizens becoming the entire government and the entire market would only be possible with the internet connecting EVERY citizen together. Once that happens...why would we need a representative democracy? And why would we need capitalism to representatively judge what the people want? Why couldn't the people then become their own judges?!?!?
    See: Rwanda
    See: Russia
    See: Germany (prior)
    See: Iraq

    Not EVERYTHING is about money and you fail to realize that. POWER is much more of a turn on to jerk-off leader regimes than money.

    Do you think the Berlin Wall was put up just because of money?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    That's the way it's SUPPOSED to work, is it not??
    No. Where is this written?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    We are SUPPOSED to choose people to represent us, and they're SUPPOSED to choose what laws we want/need.
    Then rally for people to VOTE.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    We are SUPPOSED to choose products we want/need from a company, and they're SUPPOSED to continue selling us quality products we want/need.
    Who told you that? Where does it say a company is SUPPOSED to cater to anyone other than whom they want?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But as we all now, that's hardly the case. I'd give tons of examples, but I really don't think that I need to.
    If you want people to understand your side, you do. Because you really haven't given any.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    You have tons of examples yourself in which a business or government didn't have you in mind. Aw heck, why not throw some out there...Microsoft, Exxon, George W. Bush (not even a real politician for pete's sake...and if you say he is, there's a 90% chance you're from Texas or happen to think that he's a real Christian),
    I'm not from Texas (though I did live there). I'm not a Christian. And please stop stereotyping the general population because you saw this or that or think this or that. It's a sure way to not earn a single brownie point.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    and jeez, even Palm makes the list. Is that the elite group that would control corruption in a grand communistic scale?? Capitalism has TONS of corruption and always will. There's no way outta corruption in a capitalist environment.
    Got proof of this? There's CORRUPTION in everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Communism has had TONS of corruption for the same reason capitalism has and will continue to have it - greed! So, why will communism not have corruption (at least not on any grand scale, prolly only the tiniest of scales imaginable) in the future? You guessed it, folks...because of the smartphones which are all connected to the internet being OUR OWN checks and balances.
    I... am... losing... my... mind... trying... to... figure... out... where... you... get... this... from...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    We use them today to aid us in our life, why would we not use them in the future to aid us on that grand scale of government and marketing??
    No, I refuse!

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    My thoughts are that instead of SUPPOSING to ween ourselves of oil, we will do it without big companies like Exxon controlling the legislature. My thoughts are that instead of SUPPOSING to ween ourselves of dependence on closed source products provided by Microsoft, we will build upon mature code available from Linux & BSD distributions and teach others the benefits they offer such as mostly being bug-free, virus-free, crash-free, and also PLAIN OL' FREE (With open software, it's possible to replicate the software a billion times over without any REAL burden or costs...people will realize it sooner or later and it will have features that even Microsoft couldn't dream of, nor even dream of marketing). This paragraph has gone on for far too long.
    And how about this? OS/2 had a market, they lost it. Linux had a market to home users, they lost it. It's not the government's job to MARKET their products for them. Not mine either.


    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Putting myself in your shoes for just a second, I'm trying to imagine an elite group coming from the far-left side. The ONLY group I could see turning into an elite group are the programmers writing this code and being in charge of this massive database.
    So, who's in control?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    So, I'm going to attempt to swat any of those attempts beforehand by saying that this is an OPEN community/government/market - this is as far left as you can get. Those programmers would HAVE to keep their code open also. They would HAVE to keep the database open as well. Any citizen at any time can check this code and database to see if that's what they bought, if that's what they chose to vote on, etc. Some people may think it's a bad thing that their whole lives are thrown out into the open, and that they'll have no privacy. I could see this as being a problem for some, but why would you want to keep your choices secret/private?? I hear the word choice coming from the mouths of so many conservatives, so why would you be scared to share it?
    Maybe because it's none of your business what ailments I may have. Nor is it any of your business what my sexual preferences are, or how often I buy feminine cleansers. It's not your business how much I eat or what I eat, or that I may spend my evenings writing personal prose that's just... personal.

    Take a long look at what you are saying. Start asking yourself about everything you consider "private." Now, come back on this thread and spill the beans. Tell us EVERY SINGLE THING about you. The majority of people have secrets and many of those secrets are nobody's business.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  7. #127  
    Pam your responses to this twit are a joy to read. I hope you can keep them coming and your head doesnt explode. Keep up the good work.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8. #128  
    No explosions here. I don't have to get all fired up with frustration because others don't see my way. I just tell it like it is.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  9.    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Is this thread still here? I was on a long-overdue vacation...
    I missed you, sugar! I've been waitin' for ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    I work no less than 12 hour days, often 18 hour days. Usually weekends as well. Yes, I EARN the money in my pocket.
    Congratulations for working all by yourself. But, why couldn't two people, OR three people even, divvy up your work?? What's wrong with paying 3 people $30k a year, instead of paying you muchos moneys? Or...what, pray tell, do you say to THIS scenario: your work time is cut in HALF due to everyone having this smartphone in their pocket?? Every time they're within a certain distance from a flat screen monitor, the screen automatically turns on!?!?!? Everyone would easily carry this device on them (that costs less than $1,000...possibly less since no business is trying to rip you off). We'd all easily have flat screens that are UWB compatible, maybe starting at 20 inches for desktop monitors. Some people could opt for a flat screen tablet...taking to work or class...engineers in the field, perhaps? Everybody...cell phone in the pocket? Get it? Your work is with you at all times...your messaging tool is there at all times...your pictures...your movies...you've got the internet, goin' nuts!!! Right there in your pocket!!! I don't think some people get how much technology is going to advance in the very near future. What I'm saying techology will be capable of doing in the next few years is certainly true.

    How 'bout this...you've got a laptop that's built of nothing but a screen, a battery much smaller than today's batteries, a keyboard, a touchpad (maybe a zero button mouse if apple could pull it off), and what minor circuitry which would control serving up std in/out through a UWB chip!! Laptops are prolly much less than 2 lbs with that setup connected to your 2GHz cell phone, which has an internet connection of 3 to 4 times what most people see with cable modems... Those tablets that I mentioned earlier...yea, they're setup exactly the same as the laptop....simple - UWB radio (a thumbboard like the PepperPad has would be SUH-WEET on a tablet. Much better than no board at all, I say. And perhaps it could even have a pop-out keyboard, or a full slide out keyboard like the apache...and the top of the screen would pop up on legs as the bottom side would slide backward to reveal that 17~19mm pitch keyboard?? LIGHT...LONG-LASTING...EFFICIENT...EFFECTIVE...that's what we'll have in store for the very near future. If anybody is suffering from presbyopia...it's you, mediasi.

    Anyway....way on a tangent...but that's the way future could be like in a matter of 5-7 years. But, I'm going to throw out a realistic guess like 7-9 since Bush is in office for right now: Bush is delaying things quite a bit. Even if THAT number were underguessing....WITHIN TEN YEARS, we should have the technology to do the stuff I'm talking about above. You toss in sharing your work between two or three (prolly two if you calculate the hours together, plus the efficiency that technology holds within 10 years) of your employees that do just as much work per hour as you and don't complain about getting the same pay.

    Do you people really think that smart people are going to quit being smart once their economic system turns communist? I wouldn't, especially if my settings were those listed above with those bad arse smartphone specs and all. I'd be in paradise, personally....life would be a breeze when you wouldn't have to customize/learn 1000 types of electronics....you just customize one...and it provides you with a lot simpler lifestyle than the way we're living now...that's for sure. You're not thinking in the future, mediasi...you're still in the present, or the past even.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Hop onto some Miva Merchant threads (that's the software I work with) and voice that to the users (almost ALL are small businesses) - and I'll tell you, we often here ofthe lucky ones, while the ones working the hardest are usually much more humble. My company has provided product and services to more than 6,000 small businesses and I am proud to say that the majority of them EARN their money. It's sad when you take a few you know and try to pass it off as real statistics. The MAJORITY of small businesses FAIL in the first three years, despite even the hardest of efforts, so to say the bulk of business is lucky is like saying horses that win races are just born running that way.
    The only thing i can reply to that with was what I stated earlier:
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I have met quite a few business owners, and none of them seemed like they EARNED that money. You might be different, and you awfully seem like you have sincerity in your words, but MOST business owners don't do a damn thing, they just get lucky.
    I wasn't generalizing and I specifically stated I wasn't directly to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Glad to hear it, but I don't think "equal pay" is motivation enough.
    But I offered the incentive of less time with equal pay as everybody else. I know I'd prefer to work slightly less hours as long so long as I got paid as everybody else. Also...hopefully you might not have to work as long considering how easy stuff will be in the future. You can improvise on these thoughts, I've just started you with a tiny foundation. The fact that you won't have to pay as much for products since nobody's trying to get filthy rich; they're just doing they best they can, which is all every country needs to do to provide a fully unctioning economy. I've given tons (well, maybe not tons, but quite a bit) of motivation and hints as to how this could work out. Remember, I've only been saying it's POSSIBLE to have a functioning country using communism!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Nice, so when your child is afflicted with asthma, or if your house is lost due to fire (keep in mind, without a true insurance program nothing you propose would work in any way, shape or form) then your screwed. Guess the parents who save up all year so their son can go across the country to baseball camp are screwed too.
    I've got asthma...and inhalers aren't all that expensive. Even Canadians (and Mexicans too) get the same exact inhalers we Americans do, but at a cheaper price. What's that about? In America, without helathcare, it costs...$60~80/mo to give a kid nothing but inhalers if it's as bad as me....and this is pretty bad asthma we're talkin' aobut here...maybe slightly over 2 inhalers a month. Advair perhaps costs $100/mo (not positive, tho...I just got put on this stuff), and I have to use my inhaler MAYBE eight times a month as opposed to over 400 puffs without it. It's easily worth the money to know I cut my chances of having an asthma attack FIFTY-FOLD!! The government takes this advair and GIVES it to people who have asthma and aren't allergic to it. THIS IS A LIBERAL STATE, REMEMBER?? So, you've got a national healthcare plan, and everybody easily gets the advair if they need it. You cut out the bullcrap advertising, and we're easily saving some money by letting the DOCTORS do the work instead of the MARKETING folk.

    As for your house burning down...same thing, everybody's got house insurance? If you're going to require people to have car insurance...why not require them to have house insurance as well?!?! Conservatives are always worried about protecting people even if they're not harming anybody but themselves...WHY NOT MAKE THEM INSURE THEIR HOUSE? Insurance isn't something that you need 17 different companies for...in fact, don't you think it'd be a better idea if there were just one company that calculated all the input and output of the "accidents" in the U.S., and only made enough money to keep their employees happy with what everybody else in the country got?

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Including yourself. And sorry, philosophical beliefs are NOT the base of my debates. Doesn't matter what I "feel" inside, what matters is history and reality.
    Yea...I admitted to arguing based on my philosophical beliefs? Who doesn't?? You most certainly do too base your debates on philosophical beliefs. Saying you don't is like saying you don't have a bias toward things that are better designed than others - it's just not possible.

    As for the "history and reality" thing....history doesn't apply, like I said earlier...there weren't smartphones in the past to make sure we had everything we needed/wanted at our fingertips. As for reality, I think you need to have the reality check of where this technology is converging. Soo....imaging the setting I've provided for you, tell me NOT ONLY three negative aspects that could come about from what I'm proposing....BUT ALSO three positive benefits that could come out of it (i.e. - easier cash flow, quicker times in checkout lines, etc.). I just want you to picture each side for only a few seconds so that you understand the technology that will be available in ten years. Go ahead...start NOW!
  10.    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    OMG - ever hear of economics??? Maybe because in that country they make 5-cents an hour and you can't compare what they make and we make based solely on the value of their currency.

    Pamela
    I thought I was too tired to go on, but I realized your last hundred or so responses would only put me to bed at 6 am instead of 3:30....drats!!

    No, I've never heard of economics?? Oh, wait...weren't economic and political states the discussion at hand? Yea, I'd say I know A LITTLE!

    People in other countries that make $0.05 a day, are prolly doing more labor than you and i, no? And those 5 U.S. pennies MAY get him along just enough to live, but I'm sure he deserves more than what he's actually getting....
  11.    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Now take what you said. Specifically...
    Just did it....now what?

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    If you look at the failure of communism, you'll see what everyone here is saying.

    Now relate it to life - we live and we learn, and we learn from history.

    Somebody told you to look before you cross the street, right? So what do you do? You look.

    You were also taught that drinking bleach can kill ya. So what do you do? You don't drink it.

    We've been TAUGHT that communism is a failure. Get the point? If you don't, name one successful attempt at true communism. Take your time, I'll wait.
    I don't see what "everyone here is saying" is relevant because their words are relevant to past times, pre-smartphones....whereas my thoeries of communism being both efficient and effective can only work in future times, post-smartphones.

    As for your analogies as to what happens when you take on lethal matters...I can only imagine that you'd AVOID those situations. But I'm not quite following how you find the parallel between DEATH and COMMUNISM? WTF?? I don't think that the Wright brothers decided to not build airplanes because they were told that only birds can fly!

    "We learn and we learn from history"...that things change - constantly!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Then how about you explain it? Try common, laymen terms that everyone can understand, instead of textbook-style analogies. Right now, tell us, WHAT exactly is your concept (remember, 90% of getting someone to embrace your idea is them understanding it - and as of yet, if what we've argued about is not your case, then please, by all means, state it).
    Smartphones equal cheap production of personal computers for the masses, which leads to cheap, yet fast and ubiquitous, wireless internet speeds. This network of personal computers leads to complete goverment and marketing control being INSTANTLY developed when needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    And at WHAT POINT did you ask this? You didn't...

    The Answer: WE ALREADY DO!
    I never said I asked that question before!! But, I did ask it then...and thanks for dodging my "number one question" for you guys with a simple, "WE ALREADY DO!"

    That's the most incorrect thing. The answer to the question, ".if everybody has this smartphone, why would we not be using the internet for all forms of governing and marketing??" is most certainly not..."we already do!" Firstly, we all don't have smartphones to record all of our personal purchases and decisions. The day that happens, I just MIGHT accept the answer, "we already do!" As for using the internet for ALL FORMS OF GOVERNMENT AND MARKETING (regardless of whether we all have smartphones of not), is also false! I go into a courthouse when I get a speeding ticket and have to wait for at least half an hour to hear my name called when half of the people don't show up, and the people that are there aren't already organized by saying if they plead guilty, and so on and so forth.... There's a process that that courtroom follows, and it WOULD be a lot easier if everybody in there had a smartphone and connected to that court room's server.

    And you act like I get to vote for ONE STINKIN' PRESIDENT over the internet....but I don't, we use paper ballots for those purposes. It takes a lot of time to send less than 50% our country's population outta their way to vote and a lotta volunteers to help at the polls and count ballots.

    And, I'm in agreement with most people saying that they're happier with paper trails than digital trails for now. But, I'm not sure if I'm going to agree with that for many more years. Maybe around 10 or so.....and most definitely if it were an OPEN network, where everybody sees their choices so that they can fact check against everybody else's choices.

    I still believe that you're failing to picture the internet like in the future; you're seeing the internet as nothing but a bunch of web pages and a light communications tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Case in point. Who controls the many? The ones writing the software! This is 101, really. Surely you cannot still think that 100% of the population will be "team players." There will ALWAYS, FOREVER, and EVER be those who want to control - regardless of money.
    Why would programmers get any more money than everybody else?

    I don't think that programmers want to control anything, they want to write quality code that can be replicated a billion times over for the benefit of humankind!! I'm still failing to see this elite group that controls within this open framework.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    No, it's not. Microsoft is special because they put out computers that were cheaper than anything out there. There were cute graphics and colors and a mouse, and WHOAH! everyone had to have one. Keep in mind that the primary users of DOS systems (before Windows) were businesses. THe rest of us primarily relied on Amigas, Commodores, old Vics, etc. Microsoft cornered the market on affordability (in fact, I bought one solely because I couldn't afford the MAC).
    If you're only going to say that "affordability" is important in the Operating Systems market....Linux would be king by now. But, it's not, because that's not what people want now. They want standards. They want to be able to run their programs the same across all computers. OTHERWISE, we'd all be using Linux by now. Virus free, spyware free, and just plain ol' free!

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Correction. Microsoft, in a big way, DEFINES the market. Then the followers adapt.
    Microsoft has never once DEFINED the market. You give me any example, and I'll give you a company that did it before them. Examples, please?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Go read up on Microsoft and you'll find your answer.
    I'm not understanding how reading up on Microsoft is going to tell me why the government couldn't market!??

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    1. You're proposing that everyone learn how to use a Smartphone - including those you can't even use a computer.

    2. Where do the handicapped play a role in this? You going to assign aides to all of them?

    3. Marketing of anything today is NOT on a small scale. Just look at your TV.

    4. You mean I shouldn't have to work hard developing something in case people just might want it? Oh, I didn't know business wasn't supposed to be a challenge.
    1. The operating system of a smartphone in 10-20 years will be nothing short of magic. The reason that Microsoft is great is because any imbecile can somewhat navigate his/her way around the computer. This is the same reason that Tivo dominated the PVR market....and Apple dominated the MP3 Player industry. Their products were nothing short of magical....Palm falls short by about 10 years. I'll be commenting again on this in 10 years and you won't be able to comprehend how you survived working this long in these working conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    How could I forget.
    Well...some people have short attention spans. I was just checking to see if other people (not just yourself) had been paying attention for the whole ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    They could all listen to Eminem in unison...
    I think that was a racist comment!! Even if it weren't racist, it were hardly on topic, or even productive or positive criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    So this is all about synching dinner menus? Oh, I'm all for that! My hubby sends me TXT while I'm at the grocery store. If my dog could also bark me a message to pick up some kibble, my life would be easier.
    Well...not ALL about syncing dinner menus, but partly about that. It's about a much larger scale of efficiency that you're not even TRYING to level with. You just think this is ALL about one thing or another, but you know as well as I do, that we've been talking about much more than dinner menus, hun.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    No.
    Then you're prolly brain damaged or not thinking outside of the box. You pick one or give me another option for consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Garbage in, garbage out. Even with a smartphone.
    I'm sorry you get garbage from computers...what the heck do you use them for???

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Where on EARTH do you get your stats? Nerds also like to waste time!
    I've never met any nerds who didn't spend their free time learning/reading something they weren't familiar with. That's why I think it's great that Google provides their employees with so much time. They know that the majority of their employees with PhDs, so why not give them as much free time as they want? The more privileges you give them, the greater your company will be....same holds true for citizens of a country, I bet.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    So it's about the government controlling our money - I see. Because *I* waste it.
    I'm not quite sure why you assume that [i']you[/i]'re the one wasting our wealth, but whatever!

    I'm saying that there's mone lost in many of the inefficient things that we do as a smartphoneless society. If you're not thinking about this, you suffer from presbyopia.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    See: Rwanda
    See: Russia
    See: Germany (prior)
    See: Iraq

    Not EVERYTHING is about money and you fail to realize that. POWER is much more of a turn on to jerk-off leader regimes than money.

    Do you think the Berlin Wall was put up just because of money?
    Those countries never had smartphones connecting all their citizens over EV-DO, UMTS, or WiMAx....did they? How are they going to divvy up the power/ share of money equally then?

    And yes EVERYTHING is about MONEY to a jerk-off leader in a capitalist society. That's why we're capitalists!! MONEY EQUALS POWER!!! Get over it...there's no other way to judge performance in this country than the number of buckaroos you can make in 12 months. Who else has power in this country besides those with money?? I'm sure I'll be waiting for those examples for awhile.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    No. Where is this written?
    The book of right and wrong. The book of ethics. Deep within your soul. How do you want me to answer this? It's just understood that businesses are supposed to provide people with what they need/want....otherwise they wouldn't be in business. Don't ya think?

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Then rally for people to VOTE.
    Umm...rally for people to vote was included reduced this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Who told you that? Where does it say a company is SUPPOSED to cater to anyone other than whom they want?
    Profit And Loss Statements.....if they don't cater, they're supposed to get the boot, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    If you want people to understand your side, you do. Because you really haven't given any.
    I haven't given examples...but YOU have?? I don't understand....what examples other than "the past" in general, which isn't even really an example of jack.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    I'm not from Texas (though I did live there). I'm not a Christian. And please stop stereotyping the general population because you saw this or that or think this or that. It's a sure way to not earn a single brownie point.
    Why do you go about talking about brownie points but disregard the issue at hand? Saying that there's a 90% change something is closer to the truth

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Got proof of this? There's CORRUPTION in everything!
    Do you have proof that their's corruption in everything?? Do you have proof that their's NOT corruption in capitalism? I brought it up before...don't make me cut & paste if I really don't need to.

    love how you go about trying to prove the unprovable!! Again...remember, folks...I'm just saying, I'm trying to prove that communism MIGHT be possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    I... am... losing... my... mind... trying... to... figure... out... where... you... get... this... from...
    Common sense. Where do you get your history lessons? Oh wait, in times that were nothing like the future 10 years from now.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    No, I refuse!
    Pansy....that's been the whole argument of this discussion. How would smartphones not make our lives easier? Can you not already think of more ways that it would help ease stress levels in our live? I could go on and on about this...but I've thought for several hours about something like this. I'd at least expect you to do a few minutes of thinking in my shoes before passing judgement....but you're jumpin' the gun WAY to fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    And how about this? OS/2 had a market, they lost it. Linux had a market to home users, they lost it. It's not the government's job to MARKET their products for them. Not mine either.
    Linux has never had the desktop market - ever! I'd say that now that the distribution, Ubuntu, has come out....I'd say that competition is finally starting to get realistic for the end-user. But again...mentioning OS/2 and other comanies that produced closed-source software is NOT like comparing them to open sourced software. Linix and the BSDs really are firsts of their kinds.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    So, who's in control?
    Umm....where have you been? Alll people of this country are in control. They vote for every issue when voting is required and they feel like they wanna vote. Our national government works for less than 4 years outta the year, correct? Well...if you had links to most of the topics currently being discussed,

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Maybe because it's none of your business what ailments I may have. Nor is it any of your business what my sexual preferences are, or how often I buy feminine cleansers. It's not your business how much I eat or what I eat, or that I may spend my evenings writing personal prose that's just... personal.

    Take a long look at what you are saying. Start asking yourself about everything you consider "private." Now, come back on this thread and spill the beans. Tell us EVERY SINGLE THING about you. The majority of people have secrets and many of those secrets are nobody's business.
    I already told you I have asthma. I don't always have the greatest sense of direction when it comes to determining my future, but I'm not sure if that's really a bad thing (otherwise I could be well undertaking my path as a boring dentist). Other than that, I drink a lil bit, have done drugs in the past, and have disrespected my mother many more times than I should have. I also look at pr0n....other than that, I'm not so sure that I've done all that many bad things. My specialty is my honesty....most people can relate to me more often than others because I'm typically not afraid to throw everything out on the table (I'm a liberal, remember the openness?). It's typically my integreity that impresses people the most.

    As for secrets about what I buy, what I eat....how many times I use condoms a month...how many beers I drink...how much I donate to charity....what foods I like to eat........they're not really secrets to me. I discuss them freely with friend and foe. I really wish you could do the same and live life without hiding stuff from your friends.
  12.    #132  
    I am SOO tired right now. I thought I 'd get to work on the wiki a lil' bit...but I don't have the energy. It was fun, tho, mediasi.

    G'nite all.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't see what "everyone here is saying" is relevant because their words are relevant to past times, pre-smartphones....whereas my thoeries of communism being both efficient and effective can only work in future times, post-smartphones.
    Over the past decades, telecommunications, mobile phones, the internet have brought people together more and more, "connected them" as you put it. Nothing of all that has brought us any closer to the communist society you find positive. I see no reason to assume that smartphones will change the trend to a more individual life.

    You mentioned synchronisation of food for dinner as one example of the bright smartphone future. Everybody in the neighbourhood eating the same stuff for dinner? Do you know anybody who would want that? This is never going to happen, unless people are starving and have no choice (communist North Korea comes to mind) - nobody would even remotely want synchronized menus.

    Smartphones and the other modern means of communication are not a bad thing for a society, but none of it is in any way connected to communism.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  14. #134  
    As rare as it is I LOVE IT when clulup and I agree.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15.    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Over the past decades, telecommunications, mobile phones, the internet have brought people together more and more, "connected them" as you put it. Nothing of all that has brought us any closer to the communist society you find positive. I see no reason to assume that smartphones will change the trend to a more individual life.
    That's just silly. You just said, "over the past decades"...are you listening to yourself?? Do you really believe that telecommunications and phones have just hit their high point and aren't going to evolve any further??? TODAY, there's no way for ALL citizens to manage their expenses...there's no way for us all to vote on one issue, like war, for example. Do you know of another way that would provide us to do the things I've suggested repeatedly throughout this thread??? I can't think of any. All I do know is that we have more telephone lines in this country than we have people. With stuff like family plans, ever decreasing prices of cell phones and plans....someday everybody will have a cell phone...and eventually, they'll have a SMARTphone. Do you agree on that point??

    If you're not considering the possibilities that smartphones will present us in the very near future...you're obviously never going to consider communism being possible. As I said earlier, I completely agree with the points that without a way to prevent corruption...capitalism is the only way. But if you imagine the possibilities we're GOING to have in a couple years, I don't see why this couldn't be possible in one or two more decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    You mentioned synchronisation of food for dinner as one example of the bright smartphone future. Everybody in the neighbourhood eating the same stuff for dinner? Do you know anybody who would want that? This is never going to happen, unless people are starving and have no choice (communist North Korea comes to mind) - nobody would even remotely want synchronized menus.
    Yes, I did mention syncronization of food for dinner as one example. Thanks for having a somewhat decent reading comprehension.

    What I did NOT say is that everybody was going to eat the same thing!!! You're putting words in my mouth...how wrong of you. I said, that they COULD determine how much chicken, mac & cheese, etc., the people would CHOOSE to eat. And remember, I said that this was on a very small scale. What we're talking about in this conversation is not something that's on a small scare....275 million people is a pretty dern large scale if you ask me. And if you add ALL foods available in this national database. What makes you think that everybody would eat everything at the same time? You can still go down to the grocery store and pick up what you want to eat, but you're not going to have to waste time with cashiers (read earlier posts for more info, I'm not talking about this again)...or you could go to a fast-food or a dine-in restaurant and get served there, provided you have enough "points" (ya start out with 30,000, right?) to pay for that meal. For 95% of the world, it would be no different from the way they're living right now, except that commerce would be much more efficient. For the 5% of the population that hoards all the money, they'll obviously like it the way it was before....but do you think those 5% are not going to be capable of living with what everybody else makes?? Do you think they're going to stop working and take $0 instead of the $30k that everybody else gets??? I don't see it playing out that way, and I'm not quite sure why you do....what proof do you have that people who have EVDO networks and smartphones [that are way more advanced than the ones we see today] will stop working or will be forced to eat the same thing??

    Can you guys really not take the slightest amount of initiative to think what this technology could provide for us in the VERY near future?? You guys ask me a quesiton, but it's not relevant to the days of the future. Fifteen years ago, it'd be crazy to think that you could watch movies on the go, run photoshop, get a full desktop machine in a sub-3 lbs device, etc. But it IS quite economically feasible today. And in another 15 years....the technology to do what I'm proposing will prolly be far surpassed.

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Smartphones and the other modern means of communication are not a bad thing for a society, but none of it is in any way connected to communism.
    Sure it's not so obvious that they're not connected to communism right now....but my guess as of right now is that it will become more obvious as time passes. I'm failing to see how you're saying they couldn't complement each other. What proof do you have that smartphones COULDN'T be the solution to communism's problems?

    COMunism COMmunication COMmercialism COMmerce COMputers COMmision COMbine COMpany COMpound. COM = together/with.....I'd say that they all have the same prefix....which accounts more for relativity to me than Capitalism has to anything else. What else begins with capital??

    All I ask of you is to reason with me that in the future....everyone will have a smartphone: yes or no??? Once we get through that question...I'll move on and take on whatever irrelative arguments you have to offer to this debate.
  16.    #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    As rare as it is I LOVE IT when clulup and I agree.
    What is it exactly that I'm saying that you're not understanding? Be specific and please cite me when possible. It's pretty easy to say, "communism sucks"...and "this guy's gotta be smokin' crack" (you didn't quite choose those words, but they were just as irrelevant as my examples), but what meaningful words do you have to add to this discussion??????
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Congratulations for working all by yourself. But, why couldn't two people, OR three people even, divvy up your work?? What's wrong with paying 3 people $30k a year, instead of paying you muchos moneys?
    Again, you make the assumption about how much money I make. There's something to be said about investing back into the business. Don't assume that just because I own a business I own cool rides or two homes... if you would refer back to my other posts you'll realize that's not the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Or...what, pray tell, do you say to THIS scenario: your work time is cut in HALF due to everyone having this smartphone in their pocket??
    If you say so... again assuming that I what I do is not automated (which it is...).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Every time they're within a certain distance from a flat screen monitor, the screen automatically turns on!?!?!? Everyone would easily carry this device on them (that costs less than $1,000...possibly less since no business is trying to rip you off). We'd all easily have flat screens that are UWB compatible, maybe starting at 20 inches for desktop monitors. Some people could opt for a flat screen tablet...taking to work or class...engineers in the field, perhaps? Everybody...cell phone in the pocket? Get it? Your work is with you at all times...your messaging tool is there at all times...your pictures...your movies...you've got the internet, goin' nuts!!! Right there in your pocket!!! I don't think some people get how much technology is going to advance in the very near future. What I'm saying techology will be capable of doing in the next few years is certainly true.
    Umm, this is a Treo forum, right? I already have these things in my pocket. I have a workhorse of a laptop so when I travel I have everything.

    And as for your proposal now that people "buy" the smartphone - how do you propose getting it into the hands of folk who don't want to spend 1/30th of their annual salary on it?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    How 'bout this...you've got a laptop that's built of nothing but a screen, a battery much smaller than today's batteries, a keyboard, a touchpad (maybe a zero button mouse if apple could pull it off), and what minor circuitry which would control serving up std in/out through a UWB chip!! Laptops are prolly much less than 2 lbs with that setup connected to your 2GHz cell phone, which has an internet connection of 3 to 4 times what most people see with cable modems... Those tablets that I mentioned earlier...yea, they're setup exactly the same as the laptop....simple - UWB radio (a thumbboard like the PepperPad has would be SUH-WEET on a tablet. Much better than no board at all, I say. And perhaps it could even have a pop-out keyboard, or a full slide out keyboard like the apache...and the top of the screen would pop up on legs as the bottom side would slide backward to reveal that 17~19mm pitch keyboard?? LIGHT...LONG-LASTING...EFFICIENT...EFFECTIVE...that's what we'll have in store for the very near future.
    And??? What's this have to do with putting Smartphones in the ghetto?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    If anybody is suffering from presbyopia...it's you, mediasi.
    Thanks, by calling me old and unable to focus you've shown how young you are. How about you get through college and get into the real world - start up your own business and pay the piper, then come back and tell me how I have a narrowing focus on the future. Again, if you read my prior posts you'd find that the field I work in builds FOR the future. I'm not ignorant of what technology is ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Anyway....way on a tangent...but that's the way future could be like in a matter of 5-7 years. But, I'm going to throw out a realistic guess like 7-9 since Bush is in office for right now: Bush is delaying things quite a bit.
    May I ask which of your professors is prompting you to write what you do today? Your tone, language, grammar, and level of knowledge changes every day. One minute you're speaking four syllable words fluently, and using complete sentences, and now, quick and short words with very little attention to proper grammar.

    It baffles me how anyone can think the President is too blame for everything that's wrong in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Even if THAT number were underguessing....WITHIN TEN YEARS, we should have the technology to do the stuff I'm talking about above. You toss in sharing your work between two or three (prolly two if you calculate the hours together, plus the efficiency that technology holds within 10 years) of your employees that do just as much work per hour as you and don't complain about getting the same pay.
    You're ASSUMING they won't complain. Fact is, it would be an embarrassment to pay a programmer the same as someone who has the sole job of answsering phones. Where's the reward?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Do you people really think that smart people are going to quit being smart once their economic system turns communist?
    Who on earth said that? Money has nothing to do with being smart. It's motivation and greed that affect what someone is willing to do. Why work hard if you know you'll get paid anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I wouldn't, especially if my settings were those listed above with those bad arse smartphone specs and all. I'd be in paradise, personally....life would be a breeze when you wouldn't have to customize/learn 1000 types of electronics....you just customize one...and it provides you with a lot simpler lifestyle than the way we're living now...that's for sure.
    Right, so long as you get equal pay, regardless of what you have to do (sit in paradise and collect a check...).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    You're not thinking in the future, mediasi...you're still in the present, or the past even.
    Again, please look up the word ASSUME - it's a common verb that you've constantly attached to your name.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    The only thing i can reply to that with was what I stated earlier: I wasn't generalizing and I specifically stated I wasn't directly to you.[
    Never said you were, but this IS a public forum. If you speak in generalization with constant stereotypes, I'm bound to respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But I offered the incentive of less time with equal pay as everybody else. I know I'd prefer to work slightly less hours as long so long as I got paid as everybody else.
    Now the truth comes out. You want to work less and make as much as someone working twice as many hours. You've ranted and raved about how businesses are BAD, just getting rich off the poor, and that your mother (working a job she chose to do) is not as economically viable as others, and now it's clear.

    So I'll say this... if you want to reap all the rewards in life (not just money, but lifelong prosperity in every way) you need to put in hard time. We ALL do. Even the so-called "lucky ones." A price is paid whether you get rich off daddy's fortune, or work your fingers to the bone. Though those who work hard will live a much richer life internally.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Also...hopefully you might not have to work as long considering how easy stuff will be in the future.
    You know what? I don't want EASY. I like challenges. An EASY life would be boring to me - I like change and I like when a problem is put before me that I need to spend time resolving.

    There's an easy way, though, to make "easy" money. It's a job nearly anyone can get - front register, bottom the ladder clerk at your local McDonalds.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    You can improvise on these thoughts, I've just started you with a tiny foundation.
    The only foundation you've set is your own - you want to make more than you need to survive in most rural areas of the country relaxing drinking lemonade and watching the sunset. Quite offensive to the folks who work all day who would ultimately be handing you that privelege on a silver platter.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    The fact that you won't have to pay as much for products since nobody's trying to get filthy rich;
    Then why would a Smartphone cost $1,000 or less? Heck, they're cheaper NOW.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    ... they're just doing they best they can, which is all every country needs to do to provide a fully unctioning economy. I've given tons (well, maybe not tons, but quite a bit) of motivation and hints as to how this could work out. Remember, I've only been saying it's POSSIBLE to have a functioning country using communism!!!
    No, you haven't. You've rambled on, attempting to knock down everyone else's opinions which are based on historical facts, quoting nothing than your own thoughts garnered from I don't know where.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I've got asthma...and inhalers aren't all that expensive. Even Canadians (and Mexicans too) get the same exact inhalers we Americans do, but at a cheaper price. What's that about?
    Have you taken an economics course yet? Mexico has a different economy. Thus, things are cheaper there. This is SIMPLE, first level math.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    In America, without helathcare, it costs...$60~80/mo to give a kid nothing but inhalers if it's as bad as me....and this is pretty bad asthma we're talkin' aobut here...maybe slightly over 2 inhalers a month. Advair perhaps costs $100/mo (not positive, tho...I just got put on this stuff), and I have to use my inhaler MAYBE eight times a month as opposed to over 400 puffs without it.
    And maybe that's easy for you. Without insurance, my husband's meds would run us $1,600 a month (yes, a MONTH).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    It's easily worth the money to know I cut my chances of having an asthma attack FIFTY-FOLD!! The government takes this advair and GIVES it to people who have asthma and aren't allergic to it. THIS IS A LIBERAL STATE, REMEMBER?? So, you've got a national healthcare plan, and everybody easily gets the advair if they need it. You cut out the bullcrap advertising, and we're easily saving some money by letting the DOCTORS do the work instead of the MARKETING folk.
    That's what we need - doctors who are already so overbooked that I've got a three-month wait for a standard female exam, spending time marketing products for pharmaceutical companies. Nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As for your house burning down...same thing, everybody's got house insurance?
    Again - ASSUMPTIONS. There are plenty of homeowners who don't have insurance. You're not required to have insurance unless you have a mortgage.

    And before you start ranting about, "Well, if you can afford a house..." I'll tell you know that a second-hand trailer in the sticks can run you next to nothing. Not to mention people who rent (renters insurance also costs money).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    If you're going to require people to have car insurance...why not require them to have house insurance as well?!?!
    Because the majority of us don't drive our houses on the highway. The only insurance requirement by law for cars is liability - insurance for if you HIT someone else. There's no legal requirement for house insurance in most states (I'm not sure about all and the nit-pick of this isn't worth my time to research).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Conservatives are always worried about protecting people even if they're not harming anybody but themselves...WHY NOT MAKE THEM INSURE THEIR HOUSE? Insurance isn't something that you need 17 different companies for...in fact, don't you think it'd be a better idea if there were just one company that calculated all the input and output of the "accidents" in the U.S., and only made enough money to keep their employees happy with what everybody else in the country got?
    Not at all. Insurance companies are businesses as well. And they seek profits. Though I'll agree that the rate of profits is quite high for some, thus making insurance unaffordable for many homeowners.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Yea...I admitted to arguing based on my philosophical beliefs? Who doesn't?? You most certainly do too base your debates on philosophical beliefs. Saying you don't is like saying you don't have a bias toward things that are better designed than others - it's just not possible.
    Not possible? No, I don't base my arguments on philosophical beliefs as mine are very limited and aren't skewed. I believe simply that people should be able to live their lives and work toward their own goals as long as those goals aren't prohibiting, by force, another from doing the same.

    You, on the otherhand, are basing your debates just about solely your philisophical beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As for the "history and reality" thing....history doesn't apply, like I said earlier...there weren't smartphones in the past to make sure we had everything we needed/wanted at our fingertips.
    DOESN'T APPLY? Surely you are joking. Then tell me, how did you come to every conclusion you made on this thread? You just pulled it out of thin air?

    It doesn't matter if Smartphones existed a century ago or not, everything that can happen in the future is based on what's happened in the past.

    How do we learn from our mistakes? By making them. How would you even be able to make a single decision any moment of the day about anything without HISTORY?

    You say Bush is a whack job - based on WHAT if not history?

    Sorry, grndslm, it's time to give up. If you're going to throw history out the window, you'll be left with not one leg to stand on.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As for reality, I think you need to have the reality check of where this technology is converging.
    Thanks for the tip, I was so uninformed about life until just now. Thanks for insinuating my ignorance to technology as a whole. No wonder I'm not rich, I'm working in the wrong field.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Soo....imaging the setting I've provided for you, tell me NOT ONLY three negative aspects that could come about from what I'm proposing....BUT ALSO three positive benefits that could come out of it (i.e. - easier cash flow, quicker times in checkout lines, etc.).
    Demands, demands. Shall I demand you go back to the books and read up on history (because it plays a tremendous factor) and analyze the real aspects of life (and the fall of communism in every place it has been attempted) then return to have a respectul discussion without stereotyping the population that is not just like you?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I just want you to picture each side for only a few seconds so that you understand the technology that will be available in ten years. Go ahead...start NOW!
    Who says I wasn't picturing your side? Gosh, you really must think I'm some doofus behing a screen ranting on without any merit. That's not the way I work, and if you'd please read back through this entire thread you will see that I addressed all of your issues and stated my stand based on facts rather than, "wouldn't it be cool?"

    You asked, so here you go. I'm rising to your challenge and raising the bid.

    THE POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES

    P: Anyone who can operate a Smartphone will be able to.
    N: The ones who cannot will be SOL.

    P: The GHETTO will, at least for a day, be quiet as everyone plays with their new toy.
    N: They'll get bored within 48 hours and will set down their phones and go back to what they were doing.

    P: You will get to know everything about your neighbor.
    N: Your neighbor will know EVERYTHING about you.

    P: Checkout lines will be faster.
    N: Families of 8 with a stay-at-home Mom won't have enough money to buy the food they could purchase so quickly.

    P: It will be easier to keep track of your money.
    N: It will be even easier to know that you'll be eating dog food the last two months of the year because your kid had to have surgery and you couldn't work.

    P: You'll be happier because you won't have to work as hard.
    N: I'll be disgusted that a hard day's work is not part of your vocabulary.

    P: You'll walk tall, knowing that you're financially equal with everyone else.
    N: You'll cry in the hospital after being beaten for that $20 you had in your pocket from someone who really just needed a little more dough to feed the new baby.

    P: You'll sleep easily at night, knowing your asthma medicine was provided via a health system.
    N: You'll bite nails all day, fearing your great-grandchildren will be fighting for their lives because of the realization that greed comes in a variety of costumes, and the need for survival can make just about anyone do crazy things.

    Need I go on?

    Where's your quick list?

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    No, I've never heard of economics?? Oh, wait...weren't economic and political states the discussion at hand? Yea, I'd say I know A LITTLE!
    Then you should know that you must compare apples to apples, and you're not.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    People in other countries that make $0.05 a day, are prolly doing more labor than you and i, no? And those 5 U.S. pennies MAY get him along just enough to live, but I'm sure he deserves more than what he's actually getting....
    First, who knows? Just because someone lives in a poor economic system doesn't necessarily mean they work harder for their money.

    And really, just getting by is all anyone should EXPECT. Everything else is gravy. I could get by living in a cardboard box as long as I could be with people I love. While I like extras, I don't need them.

    And, how is anything we do here in this respect going to do anything to improve that other guys pay?

    Have you considered what worth our dollars may or may not have if the government just printed money as it needed to make sure everyone got the same pay here? Again, economics 101.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Just did it....now what?
    Think hard. It's not that difficult...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't see what "everyone here is saying" is relevant because their words are relevant to past times, pre-smartphones....whereas my thoeries of communism being both efficient and effective can only work in future times, post-smartphones.
    OMG. How do you make your decisions in life? If you say you don't base it on history or what you've learned, then I guess you just haphazardly walk out the door each day oblivious to the world around you. EVERYTHING we do - every direction we take in life is based on history - things we've learned or done, and the knowledge we've gained from others.

    If you're saying that isn't the case, then you actually cannot discuss a single thing more because you have no basis at all for making a decision.

    We crawl, we walk, we learn that chalk tastes bad and that sticking our fingers in electrical outlets is not a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As for your analogies as to what happens when you take on lethal matters...I can only imagine that you'd AVOID those situations.
    Without the history of others dying from drinking bleach, how would I know it's bad? Did I just decide one day, "You know, I think bleach will kill me?" Umm, no...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But I'm not quite following how you find the parallel between DEATH and COMMUNISM? WTF??
    Do you understand the word ANALOGY?

    n. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.

    Or are you saying that none of the decision makers in society use comparisons?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't think that the Wright brothers decided to not build airplanes because they were told that only birds can fly!
    Umm, the Wright brothers DID build planes!

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    "We learn and we learn from history"...that things change - constantly!!
    Contradiction Alert:
    You told me that I can't look at HISTORY - yet you just did.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Smartphones equal cheap production of personal computers for the masses, which leads to cheap, yet fast and ubiquitous, wireless internet speeds. This network of personal computers leads to complete goverment and marketing control being INSTANTLY developed when needed.
    We already have this. And yes, it will only get faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I never said I asked that question before!! But, I did ask it then...and thanks for dodging my "number one question" for you guys with a simple, "WE ALREADY DO!"
    I'm sorry, you asked a question as if it's something we do not do, so I pointed out that we did, figuring that would be a legitimate answer.

    Now I'll answer your question, hopefully in a means you find appropriate.

    Yes, the Internet would be used for all sorts of government and marketing. Despite the fact that it already is, it would probably be on a larger scale, and even larger IF everyone had a Smartphone.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    That's the most incorrect thing.
    Did you want my answer or YOURS? Geez, it's like the college professor who gave me a C on my opinion on the Franklin Papers. She marked it, "Excellently researched and presented, but I don't agree with your opinion."

    So tell me, which definition of marketing are you referring to?

    mar·ket ( P ) Pronunciation Key (märkt)
    n.
    A public gathering held for buying and selling merchandise.
    A place where goods are offered for sale.
    A store or shop that sells a particular type of merchandise: a vegetable market.

    The business of buying and selling a specified commodity: the soybean market.
    A market price.
    A geographic region considered as a place for sales: grain for the foreign market; the West Coast market.
    A subdivision of a population considered as buyers: cosmetics for the upscale market.
    The opportunity to buy or sell; extent of demand for merchandise: a big market for gourmet foods.

    An exchange for buying and selling stocks or commodities: securities sold on the New York market.
    The entire enterprise of buying and selling commodities and securities: The market has been slow recently.

    v. mar·ket·ed, mar·ket·ing, mar·kets
    v. tr.
    To offer for sale.
    To sell.

    v. intr.
    To deal in a market.
    To buy household supplies: We marketed for a special Sunday dinner.

    Idioms:
    in the market
    Interested in buying: We are in the market for a used car.
    on the market
    Available for buying: Many kinds of seasonal flowers are on the market.
    Up for sale: They put the family business on the market.


    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    The answer to the question, ".if everybody has this smartphone, why would we not be using the internet for all forms of governing and marketing??" is most certainly not..."we already do!"
    Sorry, I wasn't told I was being graded on a multiple question test to which I needed to give your thoughts rather than my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Firstly, we all don't have smartphones to record all of our personal purchases and decisions.
    Well, I do. And what does government and marketing have to do with whether or not I record everything? See above - which definition would you like to work from???

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As for using the internet for ALL FORMS OF GOVERNMENT AND MARKETING (regardless of whether we all have smartphones of not), is also false! I go into a courthouse when I get a speeding ticket and have to wait for at least half an hour to hear my name called when half of the people don't show up, and the people that are there aren't already organized by saying if they plead guilty, and so on and so forth.... There's a process that that courtroom follows, and it WOULD be a lot easier if everybody in there had a smartphone and connected to that court room's server.
    LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    And you act like I get to vote for ONE STINKIN' PRESIDENT over the internet....but I don't, we use paper ballots for those purposes. It takes a lot of time to send less than 50% our country's population outta their way to vote and a lotta volunteers to help at the polls and count ballots.
    There's a reason for that. And given the opportunity I would refuse to vote over the Internet. Contrary to your thoughts, it is none of your business who I vote for - your only right is to know whether or not I voted.

    If you're saying your ideas means we lose our rights to privacy, the majority of the population is going to have a field day over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    And, I'm in agreement with most people saying that they're happier with paper trails than digital trails for now. But, I'm not sure if I'm going to agree with that for many more years. Maybe around 10 or so.....and most definitely if it were an OPEN network, where everybody sees their choices so that they can fact check against everybody else's choices.
    Fact check what choices???

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I still believe that you're failing to picture the internet like in the future; you're seeing the internet as nothing but a bunch of web pages and a light communications tool.
    Pardon me, but I WORK on the Internet every single day. Maybe you're failing to realize a few things...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Why would programmers get any more money than everybody else?
    Who said they would?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't think that programmers want to control anything, they want to write quality code that can be replicated a billion times over for the benefit of humankind!! I'm still failing to see this elite group that controls within this open framework.
    Where's that Barrel of Monkeys picture? I think you have too much faith in the population as a whole. Here's some homework for you.

    Enron
    Martha Stewart
    The US Government
    Computer Hackers
    Bill Gates

    You keep using Open Source as an example? Do you really think that ALL OpenSource programmers don't want any control? I'm sorry, didn't realize you work in my field and can prove that my experiences with "control" by programmers was nothing but a Fig Newton of my imagination.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    If you're only going to say that "affordability" is important in the Operating Systems market....Linux would be king by now.
    Nope, isn't what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But, it's not, because that's not what people want now. They want standards. They want to be able to run their programs the same across all computers. OTHERWISE, we'd all be using Linux by now. Virus free, spyware free, and just plain ol' free!
    You are speaking for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Microsoft has never once DEFINED the market. You give me any example, and I'll give you a company that did it before them. Examples, please?!?
    Are you serious???

    Why was Netscape left in the dust?

    Why was it such a breath of fresh air when FireFox was released?

    What email program does nearly every PC come packaged with? And which email program are most plug-ins (and virus attacks) designed to work with?

    Microsoft doesn't change the programming of Windows to work with another piece of the software. The development of the software must adhere to the API (even restrictions) of Windows.

    To say Microsoft doesn't define what and how things are produced in the market is like saying the the invention of the car didn't eventually decrease the amount of time it took to get from point A to point B.

    Microsoft has great control over how software is developed to work on any PC running Windows. And the bulk of that software is not designed, nor tested, to work on "free" operating systems.


    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm not understanding how reading up on Microsoft is going to tell me why the government couldn't market!??
    You think people despise the government now? Just suppose your proposal became a reality.

    The bulk of programmers and users despise Microsoft because of it's control over the market (and their computers). Give the government full-fledge control and there's your problem. You think that it would just be everyone working together, when the fact is, people want leaders. Ever work in a place where no one was in charge of anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    1. The operating system of a smartphone in 10-20 years will be nothing short of magic.
    n.
    The art that purports to control or forecast natural events, effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural.

    The practice of using charms, spells, or rituals to attempt to produce supernatural effects or control events in nature.
    The charms, spells, and rituals so used.
    The exercise of sleight of hand or conjuring for entertainment.
    A mysterious quality of enchantment: “For me the names of those men breathed the magic of the past” (Max Beerbohm).


    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    The reason that Microsoft is great is because any imbecile can somewhat navigate his/her way around the computer.
    No, that's the reason many schools train on the MAC.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    This is the same reason that Tivo dominated the PVR market....and Apple dominated the MP3 Player industry.
    Nope. Tivo was the first to hit mass appeal by advertising. And the iPod was the first of it's kind (can't compare that to all the free and highly-user friendly MP3 burners out there).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Their products were nothing short of magical....
    Again, that word. See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Palm falls short by about 10 years. I'll be commenting again on this in 10 years and you won't be able to comprehend how you survived working this long in these working conditions.
    No, I won't. While you say it's behind, I find it to be one of the most stable units I've owned. I'll take stability over bells and whistles I don't need any day of the week.


    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Well...some people have short attention spans. I was just checking to see if other people (not just yourself) had been paying attention for the whole ride?
    Yes, and how about you?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I think that was a racist comment!! Even if it weren't racist, it were hardly on topic, or even productive or positive criticism.
    Lighten up. First, it was not a racist comment. I've spent plenty of time in the ghetto myself. Secondly, if you just want to remain serious, stop calling me Sugar.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Well...not ALL about syncing dinner menus, but partly about that. It's about a much larger scale of efficiency that you're not even TRYING to level with.
    Ugh...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    You just think this is ALL about one thing or another, but you know as well as I do, that we've been talking about much more than dinner menus, hun.
    I love how you use "You" this and "You" that instead of stepping back and taking time to read what I have written.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Then you're prolly brain damaged or not thinking outside of the box. You pick one or give me another option for consideration.
    Did you ever think that maybe you haven't really made a point? You've spent all this time trying to force-feed us your beliefs, yet won't use any historical facts or data to back yourself up.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm sorry you get garbage from computers...what the heck do you use them for???
    Computers 101. They are stupid and only do what you or a piece of software tells them to do. Enter garbage, you get garbage back.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I've never met any nerds who didn't spend their free time learning/reading something they weren't familiar with.
    How many nerds have you met? I work with hundreds of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    That's why I think it's great that Google provides their employees with so much time. They know that the majority of their employees with PhDs, so why not give them as much free time as they want?
    No, they don't. They provide them with a very comfortable work environment, but they still have to get the job done.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    The more privileges you give them, the greater your company will be....same holds true for citizens of a country, I bet.
    For some, yes. There are many who will milk it for as much as they can (when you run a business or manage employees, you will learn this).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm not quite sure why you assume that [i']you[/i]'re the one wasting our wealth, but whatever!
    Read your statement - you insinuated that we all waste money.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm saying that there's mone lost in many of the inefficient things that we do as a smartphoneless society. If you're not thinking about this, you suffer from presbyopia.
    Umm... I automate my time, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Those countries never had smartphones connecting all their citizens over EV-DO, UMTS, or WiMAx....did they? How are they going to divvy up the power/ share of money equally then?
    Would you PLEASE read and respect the poster (that's me in this case) by looking at what they are saying, instead of tailoring my responses to meet your specific desires.

    You asked specifically: "Why couldn't the people then become their own judges?!?!?"

    And I gave you examples as to why it wouldn't work. You might think genocide doesn't matter, but it does. The genocide in Rwanda happened because a group of people BECAME their own judges.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    And yes EVERYTHING is about MONEY to a jerk-off leader in a capitalist society. That's why we're capitalists!!
    Oh, so it has nothing to do with POWER?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    MONEY EQUALS POWER!!!
    Money is not the only thing that equals power, and power does not necessarily equal money. Many acts of power have nothing to do with money.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Get over it...there's no other way to judge performance in this country than the number of buckaroos you can make in 12 months. Who else has power in this country besides those with money?? I'm sure I'll be waiting for those examples for awhile.
    How about myself? I have power in my own life. I don't need money to have power over what goes on in my household. The LA Riots resulted in Looting, by many whom did not have money, but they sure had power. Kidnappers have power, and they're going AFTER the money.

    If you don't have power over certain aspects of your life, then I'm sorry, but it surely isn't solely because of lack of money.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    The book of right and wrong. The book of ethics. Deep within your soul. How do you want me to answer this? It's just understood that businesses are supposed to provide people with what they need/want....otherwise they wouldn't be in business. Don't ya think?
    Businesses are not required to do anything but cater to their market. Nothing to do with "deep within your soul." My business targets a specific market and it's impossible for me to provide them with every single thing they want or need. And that's not "wrong" of me and I've never had a customer call me immoral because I couldn't provide a specific service.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Umm...rally for people to vote was included reduced this year.
    Don't understand your sentence here.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Profit And Loss Statements.....if they don't cater, they're supposed to get the boot, right?
    Difference between targeting a market and HAVING to market everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I haven't given examples...but YOU have?? I don't understand....what examples other than "the past" in general, which isn't even really an example of jack.
    I'd like to speak to your professors. You've obviously been taught that it's okay to make an argument without using a single example from the past.

    I've given many examples, and you are refusing to look at any of them. I'll be giving up soon because it's clear you don't think anything in the past has any bearing on the future.

    Well, guess what? If Enigma were never decoded, we'd be in a world of doo-doo right now, and computers wouldn't be anywhere near as advanced as they are now. If you don't think that historical fact has a bearing on anything, then there's no possible way you can deduct that technology can advance. If you're refusing to use any examples of how technology has advanced over the years (even to backup your own statements) then you certainly cannot expect anyone to lend any merit to your thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Why do you go about talking about brownie points but disregard the issue at hand? Saying that there's a 90% change something is closer to the truth
    Because you have NOTHING to backup this figure and it's outright wrong. Texas and Christianity alone did not elect Bush.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Do you have proof that their's corruption in everything?? Do you have proof that their's NOT corruption in capitalism? I brought it up before...don't make me cut & paste if I really don't need to.
    When did I ever say there wasn't corruption in capitalism? Please do NOT put words into my mouth. I never said that, nor would I.

    And yes, there's corruption in everything.

    n 1: lack of integrity or honesty (especially susceptibility to bribery); use of a position of trust for dishonest gain [syn: corruptness] [ant: incorruptness] 2: in a state of progressive putrefaction [syn: putrescence, putridness, rottenness] 3: decay of matter (as by rot or oxidation) 4: moral perversion; impairment of virtue and moral principles; "the luxury and corruption among the upper classes"; "moral degeneracy followed intellectual degeneration"; "its brothels; its opium parlors; its depravity" [syn: degeneracy, depravity] 5: destroying someone's (or some group's) honesty or loyalty; undermining moral integrity; "corruption of a minor"; "the big city's subversion of rural innocence" [syn: subversion] 6: inducement (as of a public official) by improper means (as bribery) to violate duty (as by commiting a felony); "he was held on charges of corruption and racketeering"



    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    love how you go about trying to prove the unprovable!! Again...remember, folks...I'm just saying, I'm trying to prove that communism MIGHT be possible.
    Since I'm not allowed to use history as any example, I guess I'm screwed. But then, so would you be.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Common sense. Where do you get your history lessons? Oh wait, in times that were nothing like the future 10 years from now.
    Surely the thought that putting a Smartphone in everyone's hand is not common sense. Apparently you've time traveled to 2015. Why didn't you just say so?

    Dictionary.com is getting a lot of hits from me tonight.

    n.
    Sound judgment not based on specialized knowledge; native good judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Pansy....
    Thanks. You've just proven that you can't have a respectful debate without name-calling. I would say that's true maturity levels showing through.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    that's been the whole argument of this discussion. How would smartphones not make our lives easier? Can you not already think of more ways that it would help ease stress levels in our live? I could go on and on about this...but I've thought for several hours about something like this.
    Well, seeing as I never speak before thinking, I did lend time to your thoughts.

    Yes, Smartphones do and will continue to make our lives easier. No one has disputed that (I think you just might be looking for confrontation at this point).

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'd at least expect you to do a few minutes of thinking in my shoes before passing judgement....but you're jumpin' the gun WAY to fast.
    1. You've no right to EXPECT me to do anything. I'm not your dog, your employee nor your slave.

    2. Passing judgement? Name one time in this thread where I've passed judgement? Was it I that pointed the finger at you about my greedy ways running my own business? Did I call you names? I've done nothing but given reasons why things wouldn't work. Seriously, if you take disagreement this personally now, what does 10 years in the future hold for you?

    3. Have you ONCE looked and really thought about anything I've said? You've instantly disputed everything without one piece of - well, anything - to back it up. You've run on nothing but your own thoughts spinning in your head. And sorry, that's not enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Linux has never had the desktop market - ever!
    Really? http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...647&pfp=SEARCH

    That's just today. Linux has been for sale for YEARS in stores across the country. Their first box had the Penguin on it. It retailed just about everywhere I shopped - OfficeMax, Wal-Mart, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'd say that now that the distribution, Ubuntu, has come out....I'd say that competition is finally starting to get realistic for the end-user. But again...mentioning OS/2 and other comanies that produced closed-source software is NOT like comparing them to open sourced software. Linix and the BSDs really are firsts of their kinds.
    No they aren't. http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/minix.html#otherinfo

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Umm....where have you been? Alll people of this country are in control. They vote for every issue when voting is required and they feel like they wanna vote.
    You were referring to programmers. And I said the programmers would be in control. Even when you pickup Linux, OpenSource or not, the programmers are in core control of what can and cannot be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Our national government works for less than 4 years outta the year, correct? Well...if you had links to most of the topics currently being discussed,
    Not sure how one could work 4 years in 1 year. Sounds like we're already 10 years into the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I already told you I have asthma. I don't always have the greatest sense of direction when it comes to determining my future, but I'm not sure if that's really a bad thing (otherwise I could be well undertaking my path as a boring dentist). Other than that, I drink a lil bit, have done drugs in the past, and have disrespected my mother many more times than I should have. I also look at pr0n....other than that, I'm not so sure that I've done all that many bad things. My specialty is my honesty....most people can relate to me more often than others because I'm typically not afraid to throw everything out on the table (I'm a liberal, remember the openness?). It's typically my integreity that impresses people the most.

    As for secrets about what I buy, what I eat....how many times I use condoms a month...how many beers I drink...how much I donate to charity....what foods I like to eat........they're not really secrets to me. I discuss them freely with friend and foe. I really wish you could do the same and live life without hiding stuff from your friends.
    So you think that if a girl is raped, the world should no who she is? You think we should know the identification of all the children who have been subject to molestation? Or that a woman who is beaten by her husband should just feel okay telling everyone about it?

    These types of things are nobody's business save for the people the victim would want to know.

    I don't consider the entire population my freinds. Are you also proposing the legal rights to privacy should also be thrown out the window?

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    That's just silly. You just said, "over the past decades"...are you listening to yourself?? Do you really believe that telecommunications and phones have just hit their high point and aren't going to evolve any further???
    Now you're not reading. He / She didn't say that at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    TODAY, there's no way for ALL citizens to manage their expenses...
    Yes, there is. You just want to see everyone's expenses. But we already have a means to manage our own. And we don't even need a Smartphone to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    There's no way for us all to vote on one issue, like war, for example.
    There *is* a way - it's called a vote. It is not, however, a power we put in the direct hands of the people themselves - that's why you elect officials. Would it be fair if we didn't go to war for me to rant and rave that we didn't? Would you have accepted that?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Do you know of another way that would provide us to do the things I've suggested repeatedly throughout this thread???
    Yes. Unfortunately, they are based on history.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    With stuff like family plans, ever decreasing prices of cell phones and plans....someday everybody will have a cell phone...and eventually, they'll have a SMARTphone. Do you agree on that point??
    No, I don't. Many people have no desire for technology at all, and who are we to force them into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    If you're not considering the possibilities that smartphones will present us in the very near future...you're obviously never going to consider communism being possible.
    So now you're saying that communism CAN ONLY exist with Smartphones?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As I said earlier, I completely agree with the points that without a way to prevent corruption...capitalism is the only way. But if you imagine the possibilities we're GOING to have in a couple years, I don't see why this couldn't be possible in one or two more decades.
    You've been arguing 10 years for quite awhile. Why the change to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Yes, I did mention syncronization of food for dinner as one example. Thanks for having a somewhat decent reading comprehension.
    Are you one of those people who call others stupid because they don't agree with you?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    ...or you could go to a fast-food or a dine-in restaurant and get served there, provided you have enough "points" (ya start out with 30,000, right?) to pay for that meal.
    And what if my husband drank 29,000 points away? I starve??? What if I used to make 80,000 a year and could get by fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    For 95% of the world, it would be no different from the way they're living right now, except that commerce would be much more efficient.
    Wrong. Some would be poorer than they were and some would be richer than they were:

    http://www.bls.gov/cew/state2002.txt

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    For the 5% of the population that hoards all the money, they'll obviously like it the way it was before....but do you think those 5% are not going to be capable of living with what everybody else makes??
    Nice attitude about those making more money than most. I guess it's okay to tell Larry Flynt he doesn't deserve his money (which people graciously gave to him). You call Larry Flynt and tell him that just because he went to JAIL to protect OUR freedom he doesn't deserve a darn thing. Guy got shot and is in a wheelchair. He fought in court for years and set precedents on freedoms we have today. But he's not worth anything more than the guy down the street who doesnt' want to work at all, but has no problem collecting a check.

    I also find it funny that you think those jerks that "hoard" all the money didn't make that money off people like you and I. How about you stop giving them your money (I'm sure you can't say you don't funnel any into the pockets of those to whom you refer)?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Can you guys really not take the slightest amount of initiative to think what this technology could provide for us in the VERY near future??
    Can you not take the slightest bit of initiative to research what you write about, and read and research responses so you can come back here tomorrow with your guns fully loaded? I'd love for you to blast any facts I've posted right out of the water with something that held more truth than just "what you think from just being born with a head on your shoulders." Not even all those OpenSource programmers just through thoughts out in a debate without having anything to back them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    You guys ask me a quesiton, but it's not relevant to the days of the future. Fifteen years ago, it'd be crazy to think that you could watch movies on the go, run photoshop, get a full desktop machine in a sub-3 lbs device, etc. But it IS quite economically feasible today. And in another 15 years....the technology to do what I'm proposing will prolly be far surpassed.
    And again, no one has disputed the fact that technology will get better.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Sure it's not so obvious that they're not connected to communism right now....but my guess as of right now is that it will become more obvious as time passes. I'm failing to see how you're saying they couldn't complement each other. What proof do you have that smartphones COULDN'T be the solution to communism's problems?
    What PROOF do you have that they will? Since you can't use history, you have NONE.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    COMunism COMmunication COMmercialism COMmerce COMputers COMmision COMbine COMpany COMpound. COM = together/with.....
    You could start your own web site with that...

    http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities.html

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    All I ask of you is to reason with me that in the future....everyone will have a smartphone: yes or no???
    Not unless you are proposing that every person is FORCED to have one, and where's the freedom in that?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Once we get through that question...I'll move on and take on whatever irrelative arguments you have to offer to this debate.
    Is that the question of the day? You keep saying, "All I'm asking is..." and "once we get through..." but your questions keep changing. (Do a search for ? in each of your threads, you should be able to find your own words.)

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
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