View Poll Results: Is Computed [Pure] Communism Possible???

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I think it's got a shot.

    3 15.79%
  • Yes, capitalism will still be here for at least the next 50 years.

    0 0%
  • No, capitalism's the only way people will work.

    9 47.37%
  • No, capitalism provides innovation.

    7 36.84%
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Results 21 to 40 of 149
  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Oh well that gives his statement a whole new flavor of validity...NOT! I don't care if he knows Lionel Ritchie. He cannot say with any certainty that we will have computers put in our heads at birth. Completely stupid. Good example of professors feeding young minds full of bs that for some reason tries to become fact.
    OK, OK, OK!! I was just stating that he has some friggin' experience in the tech field. I feel as if it has some relevance. Anyway, like I said...NOBODY can state with certainty that we will all be borgs in the future. Just like you cannot say with any certainty that we WON'T have computers put in our heads.

    It's not like he was stating it as a fact; he brought it up as his opinion. Some things I can side with him on, and others I can't. This one I can side on. He never mentioned communism in his topics, so I couldn't really tell you what his thoughts were on economic systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Communism has failed in every attempt so far. Having treos isn't going to make it work.
    I agree that communism has failed in every attempt so far. Again, it was never pure communism. I only think that it could be pure with the assistance of technology...starting with smartphones that are cheap enough to be distributed to ALL Americans (or whatever country's people). It failed because politicians abused their power. There was no way to "check and balance" the leaders of those failed countries...I'm suggesting that in the future, maybe smartphones could help.

    People might say that those designing "the database" would abuse their power. I partly agree, if that's a closed network. Communism tends to side with the free/open philosophies of life...the internet is an open network where we should be able to see what's going on within that new governent. I admit...it seems a little fuzzy, but if thought about long enough, a detailed solution could be possible.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But...you can't deny that the "Big Brother" items are inevitable.
    Actually I can........I think you're profs are filling you full of BS - time to take back your mind
  3. #23  
    So...you are Pro-Communism?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    PURE communisum is impossible due to the inherent nature of mankind. Greed, selfishness and all the other things we see in each other every day will never allow it. Intelligence has nothing to do with it and smartphones even less.
    But see...I think the greed and selfishness that we see everyday comes from our economic system of get everything I can and f*** everybody else. Most other countries aren't as greedy as us. If they had as much money and the economic system we have, I wouldn't doubt that over time they would be as greedy and selfish as us.
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    So...you are Pro-Communism?
    Dunno what I am...I mean, I'm not an economist. But I see plenty of flaws with capitalism. I'm just theorizing what economic system might be possible in the future if everybody had a smartphone in their pocket that was more powerful than today's pcs...and it's connected to every other smartphone/computer in the country due to wireless technologies (i.e. - EV-DV, WiMax).
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Actually I can........I think you're profs are filling you full of BS - time to take back your mind
    Alright, that was a pretty bold statement about the future with not much backing it up other than the national id that we'll all have in 3 years. I'm just trying to analyze where **** in the government and technology sectors are headed - and as of this very moment, until I'm convinced otherwise, I say it's technocracy.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Alright, that was a pretty bold statement about the future with not much backing it up other than the national id that we'll all have in 3 years. I'm just trying to analyze where **** in the government and technology sectors are headed - and as of this very moment, until I'm convinced otherwise, I say it's technocracy.
    To an extent, I believe you are correct. However, I feel there will come a time when it becomes too intrusive and the people will put a halt to the oppressive portions.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Greed is only half the issue with a pure communisum system. The other half is laziness and those trying to milk they system for everything they can with doing as little as possible. I have seen some research on the subject claim that this is the biggest challenge to comm system.....lack of motivation due to lack of recognition or compensation of ones own initiative to succeed. What incentive is there to provide the best service?
    Now this I can kinda understand. Perhaps it's the fact that if everybody worked with true technological checks and balances, a communist economy could be possible. If they understood that, then EVERYBODY would benefit. If I knew that all of my friends and family would benefit by doing something that I loved to do. I'd prolly do it...but obviously, I can't state that for a fact as I've never lived in a communist environment. But the capitalist environment I've lived in has some hateful attributes.

    As far as initiative, I'm going to assume we're talking about businesses. Why would somebody create/invent/govern without payment in return. Possibly those innovative people could receive double their salary for their contributions to society (say, $60,000 instead of $30,000). Or perhaps since we're all connected to each other over WiMax, that having the entire country know your name for your contributions is enough. It tends to work in the Open Source community enough...I'll admit that Open Source Software isn't quite up to par with the evil empire's software yet....but give it time (Ubuntu Linux is coming along quite nicely as it is). The whole point of OSS is that one person contributes and other people can contribute on top of that contribution. Not many people know what Open Source Software is, even, mostly because of capitalism. Perhaps the double the money bit goes against the whole equal work, equal pay bit....or maybe it doesn't...but I dunno yet. Have to ponder for a little while longer. As of right now, I'm gonna say your name being thrown across the country would have to work as it is in my argument. (...pondering)

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Now as far as technology.....there is some pretty far fetch realities already working or being worked right now. For example I was watching a documentary last night. One of the sections was talking about companies are developing optical nerve implants where you can watch TV through the optical nerve implant....without anyone around you knowing.
    That's friggin' cool. Hadn't heard about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    There are also companies that are planning on offering medical ID / History implants, Credit card ID implants, etc...
    Equally as cool...although, I'd feel safer if it were the government doing it instead of businesses. I guess that just happens to be my mindset.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    To an extent, I believe you are correct. However, I feel there will come a time when it becomes too intrusive and the people will put a halt to the oppressive portions.
    Who really knows?? We can only wait and see.
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    The educational establishment does not take responsibility about feeding the young minds with incorrect reasoning.
    I agree....but OK, would you like to point out the incorrect reasoning for the benefit of everyone who reads this thread...including yourself??
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Who really knows?? We can only wait and see.
    Man......you're really out there
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Ward Churchill
    I'm confused....are you recommending that I read his work?? Or are you blaming writers like that for my attempting to thing outside the box? Wut it iz?
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Man......you're really out there
    Just tryin' to find out why pure communism is such a bad idea....

    And considering I've prolly got more than 80+ years to live due to medical advancements...and that in the past 15 years we've gone from virtually NOBODY knowing owning a computer and knowing what the internet is to everybody owning cell phones are and prolly a third of this country owning broadband...and at least half on the internet....I'm curious as to why it couldn't work in the future. Again...I don't see reasons for it failing in the past working quite the same way in the future.

    There could possibly be something that I'm not seeing now that could still make it fail...but, we wouldn't really know what it is that causes the failure until it was put into some real action.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm confused....are you recommending that I read his work?? Or are you blaming writers like that for my attempting to thing outside the box? Wut it iz?
    To lie and plagiarize is going a bit too far out of the box, would you not agree?

    At any rate, often these guys receive Tenure, and have free reign to do or say whatever they feel. More often it becomes a matter of shoving their own personal philosophy down the throats of their students than actually educating...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I agree....but OK, would you like to point out the incorrect reasoning for the benefit of everyone who reads this thread...including yourself??
    No, individuals, particularly young ones should learn to think and evaluate information for themselves.

    Nowadays, majority of the people take information from newspaper, teachers, business and political leaders as accurate and true without further revaluation. Again, these are sources of information, you need to revalidate.
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Any entry level history or government class should be teaching this... on how income tax came into play in the US.
    They should if you're a liberal arts student. However, I'm in the engineering program. Technically it's Comp Sci, but still considered engineering. I don't have to take English my first year and no foreign languages are required. I think I'm only supposed to take like 6 humanities classes before I graduate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Huh?
    My bad...I try to make my posts as coherent as possible, but I was in a rush and had to go after that post right before yours. What I meant to say was..."Communism doesn't equate to identical goods." I completely identify the lack of diversity as one of the reasons (along with the abuse of power) that communism failed. So you make sure that there's diversity (and power is distributed equally)...and it's one (two) steps closer to a pure communism that works.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Because, as you get older you'll learn that it's just not possible. The ways we learn HOW to do things right is by screwing up. Those who always do things right are most likely copying from someone else which means... ta-sa - they AREN't DIVERSE.
    Still arguing that it wasn't possible. Neither I, nor you, has seen the future...so the phrase "anything is possible" still holds true to me. As to people copying from someone else's work...that still happens in a capitalistic society. Look at how Windows Mobile devices are becoming more Treo like.

    But anyway...as to the communist side...I'm going to throw out Open Source software again. Multiple solutions to one problem: MySQL, PostgreSQL, Firebird, etc. All made with no funding...out of the goodness of some programmers' hearts. Also...again, I'd relate Google to the way that the Government should work. There's people working as individuals that work in groups separate from other groups - some compete, other groups aren't related at all. But as a whole, it's the best business model we've seen in this country since...err -- I dunno, Google's been pretty dominant over my currently short lifespan.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Additionally, we learn from ourselves - by our own experiences. For example, how many High School students do you think you could convince that they'll miss those days for the rest of their lives. All the while they just want to get out. We don't realize how important those days were until they are gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    May I ask what college you go to? I'd be interested in speaking to their Dean to find out why standard government courseware isn't being taught.
    Tulane University. The president wouldn't help you out much, as Scott Cowan cares more about our football program than the academic side. The dean of engineering is going to tell you that government doesn't have a dern thing (for the most part) to do with programming.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    As for income tax, if government texts bore you, just go read up on Frank Zappa's pledge for running for president - it's all right there.
    It's not that government text bores me...it's just that I've been reading up on other philisophical differences between conservatives and liberals...and innovative advancements in Open Source Software that are much more appealing to me than taxes. Will check out the Frank Zappa thing when I get a chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    I can already call someone by name. I simply import and entire database into the Treo - done.
    This is true, but we love the convenience factor of having ONLY ONE device to carry around to do most of our difficultly mundane tasks. What if we didn't even need to remember to carry around that ONE device?? I'm not saying that the borg thing is totally true. I am saying that the smartphone thing is perfectly within reason, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    It sounds like you're fascinated with the teaches of this professor, and that's great, but you have to look at the negative. Immortality sounds great too, but not at the expense of "not being human."
    Not really. This was only one day outta the year that he mentioned anything not directly related to the C programming language. If you're saying that you haven't become who you are because of the teachers who taught you, the bosses who employed you, the family members who share your traits, the friends who share your experiences...I'm gonna have to ask how you turned out the way you did.

    And I have no idea what that last sentence means...please elaborate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    I don't understand what you are saying. If you're saying the government's purpose is to control EVERYTHING, sorry, but you are wrong. And he who has the gold may gather a following, but he doesn't necessarily make all the rules. This isn't Iraq. Many of this country's great leaders (not presidents) were not overly wealthy men and woman - but mostly people like the rest of us who had their own dreams and took the stand.
    No, no -- I'm saying simply that the government's purpose is safety and control (not ALL control, but a little control...yea). But you've got to understand...in a capitalist society...he who has the gold does most certainly make the rules. He with more capital wins the game. Bill gates is the most powerful person in our country...not Bush or Greenspan or any governmental official. As long as Bill Gates controls the security, release structure, etc. of 95% of the computers inthe world....and has money to spend it on whatever he pleases (be it his own military, or weapons, or the stock of other companies, or whatever), he is the most powerful person in this society where money equals power.

    I do agree with the comment that innovative people who dream and take the stand are more of an asset to humankind than the wealthy -- COMPLETELY!! I do however, continue to believe that if the playing field in terms of economic status were truly level, those innovative people would outshine their peers and influence others more easily than those that have more money. You may say that level economic status would stifle innovation, but I disagree. I guess the reason why is that you see people needing to innovate before seeing the benefits of everyone living a "fair" life in terms of health, food, clothing, etc....whereas, I see the benefits gradually showing up more and more as we truly do become an intelligent society. Whether it be Open Source -vs- Closed Source Software, Blogs -vs- Newspapers, Online Trading/Selling -vs- Traditional Stores w/ a Cashier.

    I'm actually understanding my teacher's comment about just moving forward now. I think that capitalism, Microsoft, One-sided journalism (specifically Fox), and stores/owners that make uber profits all had to be necessary before the opposites bounce back to restore balance to the force. Man this is deep sheet to me. I understand it hasn't happened yet...so obviously I can't be right to you until what I view as the good side overtakes what you see as the good side. But yea...

    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    I think you need to read up on what communism actually is...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
    I've read a little bit. I have not checked out the entrance on wikipedia, however. Will do it and post my definition of communism along with previous entrances into my computerific brain later tonight or tomorrow perhaps. This is too much economy for one day.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    OK, OK, OK!! I was just stating that he has some friggin' experience in the tech field. I feel as if it has some relevance. Anyway, like I said...NOBODY can state with certainty that we will all be borgs in the future. Just like you cannot say with any certainty that we WON'T have computers put in our heads.
    Calm down - we're all just having discussions here.

    As for a computer put in *my* head - won't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    It's not like he was stating it as a fact; he brought it up as his opinion. Some things I can side with him on, and others I can't. This one I can side on. He never mentioned communism in his topics, so I couldn't really tell you what his thoughts were on economic systems.
    Yes, but thus far, he's the only one to whom you're referring as a resource.


    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I agree that communism has failed in every attempt so far. Again, it was never pure communism. I only think that it could be pure with the assistance of technology...starting with smartphones that are cheap enough to be distributed to ALL Americans (or whatever country's people). It failed because politicians abused their power. There was no way to "check and balance" the leaders of those failed countries...I'm suggesting that in the future, maybe smartphones could help.
    Sorry, but to say communism hasn't succeeded, and because of technology, doesn't make sense. Surely you aren't saying that it would have been impossible for the US to be a communist nation 300 years ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    People might say that those designing "the database" would abuse their power. I partly agree, if that's a closed network. Communism tends to side with the free/open philosophies of life...the internet is an open network where we should be able to see what's going on within that new governent. I admit...it seems a little fuzzy, but if thought about long enough, a detailed solution could be possible.
    And there's the catch - open up the entire government, and you open up more loopholes for terrorists to get through. There is no "all or none" here.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But see...I think the greed and selfishness that we see everyday comes from our economic system of get everything I can and f*** everybody else. Most other countries aren't as greedy as us. If they had as much money and the economic system we have, I wouldn't doubt that over time they would be as greedy and selfish as us.
    Sorry, but for whom are you speaking and what, besides your professor are your resources?

    Most other countries, in a sense, are MORE greedy than us, otherwise they wouldn't need the aide of the US and others to go in and save millions of people being slaughtered or gassed. Sadam's power was about greed. The genocide in Rwanda was about greed. Any time something goes bad and there's looting is about greed. If anything, the US is MORE HELPFUL than many other countries. We've been known to give and give, even when we cannot afford to.

    To think that given more money other countries would do a turn-around is like saying if we gave Sadam Hussein three trillion dollars he would have stopped the gassing.

    In short, greed is not just about money. It's also about power.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    To lie and plagiarize is going a bit too far out of the box, would you not agree?

    At any rate, often these guys receive Tenure, and have free reign to do or say whatever they feel. More often it becomes a matter of shoving their own personal philosophy down the throats of their students than actually educating...
    Dude...again, people on these forums tend to take stuff that's really irrelevant to the whole picture and cite it over and over again.

    The only thing he said was that one day he believed we could be borgs. It truly is irrelevant to the true debate of if smartphones COULD POSSIBLY make pure communism POSSIBLE. Nothing he said has anything to do with the debate. Had I not mentioned to you it was my teacher, you wouldn't be saying a lot of the crap you're saying.

    And he didn't shove it...he was talking about how people are all the same, excluding the way we react to different situations. We're [mostly] all designed physically the same....two eyes, one nose, one mouth, two arms, one head, etc. Our different reactions to the same stimuli is what causes us to be different...going back to what I typed to mediasi about her teachers, friends, family, etc...all contributing to her definition of what's real, right, or whatever. Shortly after this he continued to go off on the other two tangets about just moving forward and how we'd all have chip implants if we didn't blow each other up. He spent an entire 20 min. out of an entire semester on non-C programming material. Really, he wasn't educating?? What person doesn't throw in their opinion when need be? You're doing it right now. And I'd say most of you guys are shoving down the "you're too damn young and down know how when you'll be a grown up, you'll be just as greedy as us" theory! The reason I say that is because you keep talking about the borg thing which isn't that relevant to the technocracy debate.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm confused....are you recommending that I read his work?? Or are you blaming writers like that for my attempting to thing outside the box? Wut it iz?
    Churchill's a wack job. If ya wanna spend your time reading him, you will make da happy, but have wasted an afternoon.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
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