View Poll Results: Which one is going to jail for Treason?

Voters
42. You may not vote on this poll
  • Karl Rove

    26 61.90%
  • "Scooter" Libby

    12 28.57%
  • John Bolton

    4 9.52%
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  1. #341  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    When Buchanan or anyone else makes an intelligent observation I have no problem acknowledging it.
    If you think Buchanan was making an intelligent observation you probably need to seek help immediately.
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  2. #342  
    not saying he will -- but it is legally possible for this to occur without an impeachment first.

    The precedent for this was established during the investigation of Spiro Agnew -- Nixon's VP who resigned rather than face charges of bribery and extortion.

    as I quoted earlier from the NY TImes article, Cheney is said to have testified under oath to Fitzgerald -- if he was less than truthful, he could be included in the obstruction of justice charges.


    White House rallies behind Cheney
    By Adam Entous

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Bracing for indictments against top aides, the White House on Tuesday rallied behind Vice President **** Cheney but refused to answer questions about whether he told his chief of staff about the CIA officer at the heart of a two-year leak investigation.

    White House spokesman Scott McClellan would neither confirm nor deny a report in The New York Times that Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Libby, first learned about the CIA officer, Valerie Plame, in a conversation with the vice president on June 12, 2003, weeks before her identity became public in a newspaper column by Robert Novak on July 14, 2003. President George W. Bush ignored a shouted question about Cheney's role amid growing signs that federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald will seek charges as early as Wednesday, when the grand jury is scheduled to reconvene.

    ...The Times report about the previously undisclosed conversation put a spotlight on Cheney and raised questions about assertions the vice president made in a September 2003 television interview that he did not know Wilson or who sent him on the trip to Niger.

    ...Asked if Cheney always tells the truth to the American people, McClellan said: "Yes." He dismissed as "ridiculous" a question about whether Bush stood by Cheney's account of his role in the matter. "The vice president, like the president, is a straight-forward, plain-spoken person," McClellan said.

    ...The Times account of the June 12, 2003, conversation also appeared to run counter to Libby's testimony to a federal grand jury that he first learned about Wilson's wife from reporters.

    Fitzgerald is said by lawyers to be considering bringing charges against Libby for making false statements and possibly obstruction of justice.
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/25/2005 at 06:34 PM.
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  3. #343  
    a dramatic 2 minute ABC news story about Cheney's role in the affair, and him lying on NBC's Meet The Press
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  4. #345  
    Looks like the answer is D) None of the above.

    (no treason charges)
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  5. #346  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    a dramatic 2 minute ABC news story about Cheney's role in the affair, and him lying on NBC's Meet The Press
    Interesting video...but like it said...it doesnt appear to have been a crime to tell Libby that Wilson was CIA.
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  6. NRG
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       #347  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Looks like the answer is D) None of the above.

    (no treason charges)
    We don't know yet, but B) is a pretty good bet.

    Investagation is still ongoing.
  7. #348  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    We don't know yet, but B) is a pretty good bet.

    Investagation is still ongoing.
    No one is investigating a charge of treason.
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  8. #349  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    to paraphrase that heroic former National Guardsman.....
    I fully agree with you!!!!! No matter if they are Dem or Rep....Black, White, or Green.....The President of the United States or the Manager at the McDonalds in your home town........Are the farthest Liberalized Leftist or the Wackiest Right Wing Whacko........ANYONE, who has served in our National Guard...or any Armed Forces....is heroic!

    I must say, especially with so may honored vets on this forum, I just cringle every time (and again, and again, and...) you degrade ALL National Guards service men during the Vietnam time simply because of your personal political bias against one man!
  9. NRG
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       #350  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    No one is investigating a charge of treason.
    Ooops, did not pay enough attention to the "no treason" part.
  10. #351  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Interesting video...but like it said...it doesnt appear to have been a crime to tell Libby that Wilson was CIA.
    I listened to most of Fitzgerald's news conference and thats not really what he said (as I heard it). He seems to have commented that applying the applicable law in this or any case, was difficult.

    But if someone has lied to a grand jury or investigators its a significant thing in and of itself -- and important to prosecute.

    He did not express a negative opinion as to the merits of "a spy disclosure" charge per se.

    In any case hopefully this is not the end -- but rather end of the beginning (of the end for these scoundrels).

    I continue to hold my breath that more will come, that Rove will still be indicted, that there will be a conga line of neocons being frog marched from the West Wing of the WH.

    (we all need to have dream, that would be mine ...)
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  11. #352  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I fully agree with you!!!!! No matter if they are Dem or Rep....Black, White, or Green.....The President of the United States or the Manager at the McDonalds in your home town........Are the farthest Liberalized Leftist or the Wackiest Right Wing Whacko........ANYONE, who has served in our National Guard...or any Armed Forces....is heroic!

    I must say, especially with so may honored vets on this forum, I just cringle every time (and again, and again, and...) you degrade ALL National Guards service men during the Vietnam time simply because of your personal political bias against one man!

    During Viet Nam the National Guard was a well established dodge for escaping genuinely dangerous service -- reserved for the well off and well connected.

    Perhaps to cloud that fact, during his heroic time sending our friends to die for his Iraq lie, he's made current National Guardsmen frontline combat soldiers -- something they never anticipated, and which they absolutely were not during Viet Nam.
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  12. #353  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    But if someone has lied to a grand jury or investigators its a significant thing in and of itself -- and important to prosecute.
    So you've had a change of heart on the whole Clinton thing then, have you?
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  13. #354  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    During Viet Nam the National Guard was a well established dodge for escaping genuinely dangerous service -- reserved for the well off and well connected.
    There were easier ways, you know.: marriage, having children, college or even Canada.
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  14. #355  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    So you've had a change of heart on the whole Clinton thing then, have you?
    I was quoting Fitzgerald --

    Regarding Clinton, it was a phoney perjury charge in pursuit of a deception by Clinton who was attempting to not tell the WHOLE humiliatingly embarrassing truth of his personal private venture into the maw of that woman, Miss Lewinsky.

    Tell us how that is remotely comparable to an administation which has been caught lying to hide their effort to persuade the country to go to war, a war in which thousands have died.

    Now at least one of their leaders has been indicted for his efforts on behalf of that lie. (lets hope he's not the last)
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  15. #356  
    Ahem. I'll quote you again.
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    But if someone has lied to a grand jury or investigators its a significant thing in and of itself -- and important to prosecute.
    Your fevered rantings about Bush are just as phoney.
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  16. #357  
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  17. #358  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    During Viet Nam the National Guard was a well established dodge for escaping genuinely dangerous service -- reserved for the well off and well connected.
    See, this isn't a point about who is more of a man....but with using biased views to present a totally unrelated arguement just to throw in a prejudice comment to fit your narrow or one sided political view.

    So, to get it staight....Just because we now know that during the 1968-1974 period, Presidents Johnson and Nixon decided against calling up National Guard units as a whole for service in Vietnam (though nearly 9,000 NG served in Vietnam), we didn't know at the time if that decision to call the National Guard would be announced at any time during GWB's service. Bush joining an arm of the armed forces at a time that any unit could be called up to war (though not knowing at the time if they will be or not), according to you dodged the war....which is bad. But when Clinton left the country to go to school during the same time, which expempted him from any service at all.....is fine.

    Just had to get your logic straight....now that I am clear on that point, please precede with the topic of thread.....
  18. #359  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    So, to get it staight....Just because we now know that during the 1968-1974 period, Presidents Johnson and Nixon decided against calling up National Guard units as a whole for service in Vietnam (though nearly 9,000 NG served in Vietnam), we didn't know at the time if that decision to call the National Guard would be announced at any time during GWB's service. Bush joining an arm of the armed forces at a time that any unit could be called up to war (though not knowing at the time if they will be or not), according to you dodged the war....which is bad. But when Clinton left the country to go to school during the same time, which expempted him from any service at all.....is fine.
    Neither are good, but to attack a man on his record of going into the fight when you chose to hide in the Guard, tacky.
  19. #360  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    See, this isn't a point about who is more of man....but with using biased views to present a totally unrelated arguement just to throw in a prejudice comment to find your narrow political view.

    So, to get it staight....Just because we now know that during the 1968-1974 period, Presidents Johnson and Nixon decided against calling up National Guard units as a whole for service in Vietnam (though nearly 9,000 NG served in Vietnam), we didn't know at the time if that decision to call the National Guard would be announced at any time during GWB's service. Bush joining an arm of the armed forces at a time that any unit could be called up (though not knowing at the time if they will be or not), according to you dodged the war....which is bad. But when Clinton left the country to go to school during the same time, which expempted him from any service at all.....is fine.

    Just had to get your logic straight....now that I am clear on that point, please precede with the topic of thread.....
    Hobbes, please stop attempting to argue that because that loser COULD technically hypethetically under some circustance have been called to war ...

    that's nonsense -- and anybody alive during the vietnam years knows this.

    Clinton always opposed that war -- but would have served had he been drafted. He had a unique exemption based on his particularly rare and highly covetted Rhodes Scholarship. His letters back to his draftboard reflect his sense of ambiguity over the unfairness of his good fortune.

    Hyprocite chickenhawks like junior, cheney, wolfowitz, rove, Libby deserve a special place in hell for sending others in place of their too precious selves. Not only did they support that war -- but they were advocates of it.

    Like now when they are the planners and advocates of the Iraq catastrophe, yet none have encouraged their own children to endanger themselves there...
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