View Poll Results: Who Will Win The Tour De France

Voters
27. You may not vote on this poll
  • Lance Armstrong

    26 96.30%
  • Ivan Basso

    0 0%
  • Jan Ullrich

    0 0%
  • Iban Mayo

    0 0%
  • Levi Leipheimer

    0 0%
  • Roberto Heras

    0 0%
  • Floyd Landis

    0 0%
  • Robbie McEwen

    0 0%
  • Santiago Botero

    0 0%
  • Francisco Mancebo

    1 3.70%
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Results 81 to 100 of 114
  1.    #81  
    Here are the Jersey winners:




    Overall Leader
    Lance Armstrong (USA/DIS) 82h 34min 05sec
    2. Ivan Basso (ITA/CSC) at 4:40
    3. Jan Ullrich (GER/MOB) 6:21




    Points Leaders
    1. Thor Hushovd (NOR/C.A) 175
    2. Stuart O'Grady (AUS/COF) 160
    3. Robbie McEwen (AUS/DAV) 154




    King of the Mountains
    1. Michael Rasmussen (DEN/RAB) 185
    2. Oscar Pereiro (SPA/PHO) 155
    3. Lance Armstrong (USA/DIS) 96



    Best Young Rider overall:
    1. Yaroslav Popovych (UKR/DIS) 82h 53min 07sec
    2. Andreï Kashechkin (KAZ/C.A) at 9:02
    3. Albert Contador (SPA/LTY) 44:23



    overall team:
    1. T-Mobile 245h 07min 38sec
    2. Discovery Channel at 14:57
    3. CSC 25:15
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 07/25/2005 at 11:17 PM.
  2.    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Which is my whole point. Keep competing. Aside from Kirk Gibson, at the 1999 British Open, Jean Van de Velde could have still won on the 72nd hole, even by making double bogey. He made a triple, and lost in a playoff. (A three sroke lead on the final hole would be like a five minute lead.)

    No other sport just rolls over like this, do they?
    That's the point, neither did they. They did all race, and raced really hard. In fact they nearly broke the fastest average speed for this stage yesterday. Because so many were racing so hard for the points jersey, for their spot within the top 10 GC, and for the stage win (which this is one of the most envious stage wins in the entire sport), there were at least 4 crashes that I know about....all of them trying to get a little bit ahead of the others while rounding corners to fast with how wet and slippery it was, especially on the cobble stones that are like trying to walk on marbles in the middle of night on a wet kitchen floor. Basso was keeping close tabs on Lance the whole stage.

    There are several big differences with cycling than compared to any other sport, especially like Golf, Baseball, Soccer, etc... One of the major differences is, if you are behind in Golf, your life or health is usually not in danger if you go after a impossible come back. In cycling, you have to figure in the physical risks with the stage, the weather, the road conditions (i.e. cobble stones..the curse of any cyclist), the distance to be able to form and defend a break away, etc... By most standards (which Jordan, Grayske (sp), tiger, ECT have all stated )cycling is one of the most physically grueling and enduring sports to participate in.

    You are just focusing on one single aspect of the race...The Yellow Jersey. As history has proven, if there is a chance to challenge for the Yellow Jersey, you bet there would be a challenge. But due to how dangerous this race is, most will not risk crashing and losing their 2nd or 3rd podium spot while trying to bridge a gap of time that is impossible to do under the circumstances. They are more at risk of losing their 2nd & 3rd spots because there is a half the time gap to their next rival than anyone was to Lance. For example, Basso (the man in 2nd place) only had a 90 sec lead or he would lose his second place...compare to nearly 5 minutes lead to catch Lance. So in fact yesterday, they had more to defend than to challenge. It's all in the strategy of the race.
  3. #83  
    Couldnt that last minute strategy be avoided by not waiting to the last minute to close the gap (assuming that someone like Basso could have closed the gap sooner...I don't think he could have.)

    I see Insertions point though...you never know what could happen. Let the race decide (and the racers) if they want to risk that 2nd or 3rd place spot. (as it happened, we will never definitively know). Who knows if it would have pushed Lance to go faster and even obliterate the field even more ;-)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  4.    #84  
    I know cycling is a hard sport to grasp as first. And I have many of these type of conversations with friends etc who starting watching the Tour in the last year or two because of the fame and recognition of Lance.

    Again.....the racers and their individual team leaders did decide how to race yesterday. No one slacked off. They did race hard and fast. When you race the second fastest average speed for the stage in the 102 years the race has been going, you cannot say they didn't try and didn't race hard.

    I watched over 3 hours of racing from that stage. There were lots of challenges and lots of counter attacks. Given the flatness of the stage, slippery wet roads, and a cobble stone finish, Basso would not have been daring to attack, but actually foolish.

    The simple fact is that no one could challenge Lance (and this is honest opinion that has become the common consesus among nearly all...including Lance's rivals). In the time trail, Lance stomped everyone down. On the flats Lance was always in the front and answered every single attack from any of his rivals with authority. Even in the height of the Alps, no one could challenge Lance, Basso is the only one who could even keep up with Lance, though he did not have the strength to challenge him.

    Cycling is actually very complicated, believe it or not. There is a tremendous amount of strategy playing on several different levels all at the same time. Sometimes it is smarter to risk the option for the gain, other times it is certainly smarter to stay your ground and defend. When you look at the physical risk (ie wet slippery road, cobble stones, sharp corners, etc.) vs the stage (how much time to break away or not, flat vs hills, open road vs circuit course, etc..) vs how strong the cyclists are after 3 long painful weeks vs how much time has to be made up within so many (or few) given miles. Basso has never been able to challenge Lance. And has only won one stage against Lance and that was last year by one bicycle length.

    Again, they did not slack off in the least......There were at least 5 break away attempts during yesterday's stage....and every single one of them were caught. The only one to succeed was in the last 800 meters or so, and then they only made it by a bicycle length or two by the time they reached the finish line.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    That's the point, neither did they. They did all race, and raced really hard. In fact they nearly broke the fastest average speed for this stage yesterday. Because so many were racing so hard for the points jersey, for their spot within the top 10 GC, and for the stage win (which this is one of the most envious stage wins in the entire sport), there were at least 4 crashes that I know about....all of them trying to get a little bit ahead of the others while rounding corners to fast with how wet and slippery it was, especially on the cobble stones that are like trying to walk on marbles in the middle of night on a wet kitchen floor. Basso was keeping close tabs on Lance the whole stage.

    There are several big differences with cycling than compared to any other sport, especially like Golf, Baseball, Soccer, etc... One of the major differences is, if you are behind in Golf, your life or health is usually not in danger if you go after a impossible come back. In cycling, you have to figure in the physical risks with the stage, the weather, the road conditions (i.e. cobble stones..the curse of any cyclist), the distance to be able to form and defend a break away, etc... By most standards (which Jordan, Grayske (sp), tiger, ECT have all stated )cycling is one of the most physically grueling and enduring sports to participate in.

    You are just focusing on one single aspect of the race...The Yellow Jersey. As history has proven, if there is a chance to challenge for the Yellow Jersey, you bet there would be a challenge. But due to how dangerous this race is, most will not risk crashing and losing their 2nd or 3rd podium spot while trying to bridge a gap of time that is impossible to do under the circumstances. They are more at risk of losing their 2nd & 3rd spots because there is a half the time gap to their next rival than anyone was to Lance. For example, Basso (the man in 2nd place) only had a 90 sec lead or he would lose his second place...compare to nearly 5 minutes lead to catch Lance. So in fact yesterday, they had more to defend than to challenge. It's all in the strategy of the race.

    It was wonderful race, and a courageous run of 7 years in a heroic life. (at last somebody from Texas who I'm proud for ...)

    Unless you're a bit of a cyclist, its hard to really empathize with the amazement that is even casually riding the course of the TDF.

    The unimaginable distances, the degree of verticality -- the insanity of the descents!! --- and to do it day after day after day.

    I'm a decent, bit better than average cyclist -- I ride every day, don't own a car -- but I can't imagine sustaining for much more than a mile on level ground the speeds that they ALL AVERAGE for hundreds of miles -- while climbing mountains of torture, under scorching sun, and torrential rains.

    (and oh btw --- I've ridden my Gitane on the cobble stones around the Arc de Triomphe in the rain -- and I can tell you that they are slippery.)

    Racing cyclists have such honor and mutual respect -- if one of their competitors falls during the race, we have several times seen riders like Tyler Hamilton, Jan Ullrich and Lance, slow the race until the rider could recover from the accident -- they wouldn't want to dishonorably win through anothers bad luck.

    I’ve not read the most of this thread, but if anyone has questions about The Tour, there’s good info at:

    http://www.csc.com/features/2004/34a.shtml

    For example:
    “Etiquette calls for riders not to attack when another rider is answering nature’s call. Sometimes, riders will even ease off the back of the bunch and take care of business without even stopping, a delicate, sometimes imprecise maneuver. “
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  6. #86  
    Right Turn for Tour de France

    July 26, 2005 - Moments after seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong announced that he was retiring from competitive cycling, the White House served notice that it intended to replace him with a cyclist who shares President George W. Bush's conservative political views.
    While Armstrong has never officially identified himself as a Democrat and has been friendly with members of both parties, including President Bush, the fact that he was cheered on in his seventh Tour victory by 2004 Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry was not lost on conservatives, who immediately urged Bush to find a conservative cyclist to replace him.

    At the White House, spokesman Scott McClellan assured reporters that there would be "no litmus test" to determine who Armstrong's successor might be, but did indicate that "he or she will be someone with integrity, a strong sense of values and a conservative interpretation of the U.S. Constitution."

    In Democratic circles, fears abounded over Bush's choice, since Armstrong's successor might very well shift U.S. cycling to the right for years to come.

    "President Bush handpicking Lance Armstrong's replacement is the worst-case scenario many of us have been dreading," said Democratic activist Clarisse Hartnett. "We were really hoping Lance would hang in there until Bush was out of office."

    But Hartnett did offer praise for Miami Dolphins running back Ricky Williams, who came out of retirement before Bush could choose a conservative replacement for him.

    Elsewhere, actress Cameron Diaz said she was gratified that she had prevented the release of topless photos of her, but saddened that she had not prevented the release of "Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle."
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  7.    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    France bashing also seems to have become an obsessive-compulsive behaviour for some posters here. I am not French so I don't really care, but why is it that some can't discuss the Tour de France without (falsly) thinking "It's gotta drive the French crazy that they can't even win their own race against an American!" and bringing their crude political views also into a sports thread?
    that was not my post, but I do apologize if I did offend you with my posting in the Tour De France thread....but I come from way back before Greg Lemond, when I use to participate in cycle racing. And I guess I still remember the vicious attacks by french fans (physically, verbally, death threats, etc...) and especially by the Media, attacking him with extreme and open anti-American hostility.

    I know things have changed since 1986 in the sport of cycling and the acceptance of Americans in the race, and lot of the French Public have grown to at least respect Lance, especially after they finally saw him suffer last year and still won.....but then last week when the the French government held an independent "random" drup test of tour riders to "represent the field" and then only selected Lance Armstrong ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8464982/page/2/ ), it just kind of reminded me of it all again and of all the attacks by the French press AND Government in 1999-2002 with multiple unfounded drug abuse acusations simply no basis except that because "no man could win the way he does after recovering from cancer".

    To be honest it was a hard battle for Americans to break into the former European exclusive world of cycling (with a lot of trail blazing from Greg and the first American team 7-11) and which came with a lot resistance to be taken seriously, with the French press leading in a strong way for the whole last half of the 80s when Greg Lemond soundly defeated his own teammate Bernard Hinault, the great French Badger.....when Benard broke his promise to support Greg for giving up a Tour victory the year before so Benard could have his 5th win and decided to try for a 6th title instead....and when Greg continued to win it for a total of 3 times, even after recieving a gun shot wound.

    Being totally honest, it has taken them over a decade to warm up to Americans being there, and continued those attacks for the first 3 years that Lance dominated the Tour.

    Here are some articles:

    This shows it getting better as of last year:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5504912

    ESPN on French Media: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=1840215
    http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/tex...2002-22972.asp

    Man....It seems that LaBlanc and the French Press will never stop pounding on Lance. The admit that "he has to be using drugs, because he is better than we think we think he should be" (paraphrased but the essence). It is funny that they never said anything like that about Laurent Fignon (French - 2 Time Winner) , Jacques Anquetil (French - 5 Time Winner), or Bernard Hinault (French - 5 Time Winner) when they dominated the race. But many of these charges echo the same charges they facelessly threw at Greg LeMond (USA - 3 Time Winner) when he was winning and stuffed Hinault in his rightful place.

    LaBanc is the head guy over the Tour. He is finally retiring this year. So since he was freed from political forces, he admitted that he planned this year's race to marginalize Lance's talents and to help give others a chance.

    Lance is THE single most drug tested athlete in the world. And still the French throw attacks without apparent proof or founding because and this is a direct quote:

    The paper often questioned Armstrong's clean record and frequently took jabs at him — portraying him as too arrogant, too corporate and too good to be real.
    Okay, here is what I am ranting about:

    Tour de France Head: Armstrong Needs to Come Clean

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166602,00.html

    PARIS — The director of the Tour de France (search) said it was a "proven scientific fact" that Lance Armstrong (search) had a performance-boosting drug in his body during his 1999 Tour win, and that the seven-time champion owed fans an explanation.

    In a story Wednesday, Jean-Marie Leblanc praised the French sports daily L'Equipe for an investigation that reported that six urine samples provided by Armstrong during the 1999 Tour tested positive for the red blood cell-booster EPO (search). The newspaper on Tuesday accused Armstrong of using EPO during his first Tour win in 1999.

    "For the first time — and these are no longer rumors or insinuations, these are proven scientific facts — someone has shown me that in 1999, Armstrong had a banned substance called EPO in his body," Leblanc told the paper.

    "The ball is now in his camp. Why, how, by whom? He owes explanations to us and to everyone who follows the tour," Leblanc said. "What L'Equipe revealed shows me that I was fooled. We were all fooled."

    Armstrong, a frequent target of L'Equipe, vehemently denied the allegations on Tuesday, calling the article "tabloid journalism."

    "I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance-enhancing drugs," he said on his Web site.

    ------------------

    L'Equipe is owned by the Amaury Group (search), whose subsidiary, Amaury Sport Organization, organizes the Tour de France and other sporting events. The paper often questioned Armstrong's clean record and frequently took jabs at him — portraying him as too arrogant, too corporate and too good to be real.

    "Never to such an extent, probably, has the departure of a champion been welcomed with such widespread relief," the paper griped the day after Armstrong won his seventh straight Tour win and retired from cycling.

    FULL STORY
    Apparently they haven't done their research very well with the 7 year itch of high hopes of actually catching Lance dominating their race:


    Armstrong returns fire about doping allegations

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycli...r_x.htm?csp=15

    Lance Armstrong says "witch hunt" is an appropriate phrase to describe French newspaper stories that allege he used the performance-enhancing drug EPO in the 1999 Tour de France.

    "They're trying to strike a serious blow to my reputation with no A, B or C sample to confirm or deny" the charges, he said. "I'm not wavering from my first statement that I have never taken performance-enhancing drugs."

    -------------

    Armstrong said he spoke with Leblanc after that interview and explained he could not defend himself against the charges.

    "I got the impression he understood my position," Armstrong said.

    The Associated Press quoted Armstrong in a conference call from Washington as calling Leblanc's accusation about being fooled "preposterous."

    The Texan speculated there was more to the L'Equipe story than has been published, suggesting "deeper issues" were involved, including votes against the Paris bid for the 2012 Summer Olympics and conflicts between the Tour and international cycling officials. He also asked for L'Equipe to identify the other positive samples.

    -------------------------

    The EPO test itself also is being questioned by some scientists, which is why the 2004 study was undertaken. The L'Equipe story has renewed the scrutiny.

    Canadian physician Christiane Ayotte, director of the World Anti-Doping Agency-certified lab near WADA headquarters in Montreal, told VeloNews magazine Tuesday that, "We are extremely surprised that (1999) urine samples could have been tested in 2004 and have revealed the presence of EPO. EPO in its natural state or the synthesized version is not stable in urine, even if stored at minus 20 degrees."

    The test also has been recently overturned for producing false positives. Belgian triathlete Rutger Beke was cleared Aug. 9 of EPO doping charges despite two positive tests because a review showed he naturally excreted proteins that would give a positive result.

  8. #88  
    Is that sour grapes, or just the sour stench of body odor??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  9. #89  
    when i was in montreal for the "Just for laughs festival" a comedian brought to our attention the following about Lance Armstrong "So the guy has won 7 tour de france's...which is great...however have you ever thought about it...when the man had two balls he was doing horribly...but now that he has one...hmmm he is dominating...don't you find having one ball may be an advantage...i mean he doesnt have to worry about his seat...and not to mention he has that 'weight' advantage...i say put another ball in his pants and see how he does then...gotta level the playing field" LOL that joke was hilarious...

    And I agree...the French have been pounding on Lance...bbbbbbbbbuuuuuuuutttttttt at the same time EPO is a banned substance........however how/why did you ban a substance back in 1990 when you had no definative means for testing for the EPO RBC enhancer, which only came in 2001. If it is true...and by scientific data not he said she said bs...then thats a problem...because he would of course be banned from the 1999 race, and well banned substances bans come with quite a few years, so thus his 6 other wins after which would be null...

    but who knows eh...factual data is the only means...although at present a Paris lab has the only true way of being able to test for EPO (which of course is under no obligation to divluge the information how to test for it without royalities)
  10. #90  
    Here is a subpoll:

    Do you own/wear a Livestrong band, or own a Lance Armstrong HP notebook:

    Yes
    No

    ------------------

    For me:

    No
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by hofo_mofo
    ...don't you find having one ball may be an advantage...
    Ummm...I find that having none is a great advantage
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Ummm...I find that having none is a great advantage
    yeah yeah...hey go get a pap smear or something LOL
  13. #93  


    Newberry-Style Castrating Knife
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl


    Newberry-Style Castrating Knife
    perfect for people who want to make a living singing soprano
  15.    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by hofo_mofo
    And I agree...the French have been pounding on Lance...bbbbbbbbbuuuuuuuutttttttt at the same time EPO is a banned substance........however how/why did you ban a substance back in 1990 when you had no definative means for testing for the EPO RBC enhancer, which only came in 2001. If it is true...and by scientific data not he said she said bs...then thats a problem...because he would of course be banned from the 1999 race, and well banned substances bans come with quite a few years, so thus his 6 other wins after which would be null...

    but who knows eh...factual data is the only means...although at present a Paris lab has the only true way of being able to test for EPO (which of course is under no obligation to divluge the information how to test for it without royalities)
    I fully agree....if he is guilty then prove it and deal with it. But don't take questionable evidence that scientist say probably can not even be accurately determined and have the Director of the Tour De France and the French media convict him and express extreme disappointment for these "facts" that apparently cannot be verified and have been flung at him for the past 7 years without any founding......it appears that it is just more of the same resentful Lance bashing.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 08/25/2005 at 09:26 AM.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I fully agree....if he is guilty then prove it and deal with it. But don't take questionable evidence that scientist say probably can not even be accurately determined and have the Director of the Tour De France and the French media convict him and express extreme disappointment for these "facts" that apparently cannot be verified and have been flung at him for the past 7 years without any founding......it appears that it is just more of the same resentful Lance bashing.
    so far thats the case (the Lance bashing that is)..because I mean...in one report it said the test results had the name of Lance Armstrong on the report sheet, however particpants are tested without their name...just a number...and then its up to governing board to link the name to the number
  17. #97  
    I heard the illegal chemicals he used were soap and aftershave...a crime in France.
  18.    #99  
    That was my joke on 44 I take full credit for stealing from Bob Roll on OLNtv!
  19.    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by hofo_mofo
    you americans really don't like the french eh?
    NO....it is just we often laugh at them not liking us.
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