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  1.    #1  
    I find stuff like this very interesting. The Earth is something like 93 mil miles from our sun. They just found the smallest planet so far that happens to be only 3 mil from it's sun with it's year only 2.64 days long!

    I was watching a documentary last month on the leaps and bounds in new planetary discoveries. So far it is looking like our solar system that we currently have the technology to detect, there may not be a NOT a norm. Just about every other one they have found so far have gas giants, some several times bigger than Jupiter (which just the big red spot storm on Jupiter is 3 times bigger than earth alone) as the inner planets speading around the sun so fast that they are completing their orbits in as little as 3 days. Anyway here it is......

    Planets more like Earth found circling nearby stars

    CLICKY ...... CLICKY

    Actually there is a momentum building in the scientific community concerning the search for life...mostly fueled by the verification of other solar systems.

    Even if you look at the odds......there is now estimated to be over 20 billion solar system in our galaxy alone. Times that by an low average of 3 planets per solar system. That is 60 billion planets. Lets say that only one tenth of 1 percent (x by .001) are in ideal conditions for life. Then there are still 60,000,000 worlds that are candidates for life. And only one tenth of 1 percent (x by .001) actually have life that is a small drop in the bucket of 60,000 worlds with life in our galaxy. You times that by the estimated number of 125 billion galaxies ( http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/TopazMurray.shtml ) that would be 750,000,000,000,000,000 (what number is that?) worlds that have life in the universe. And only one tenth of 1 percent (x by .001) actually have intelligent life that would leave us with 750,000,000,000,000 worlds with intelligent life. Heck, even if you took one tenth of 1 percent (x by .001) of that, you would still end up with 750,000,000,000 worlds. This number has also been estimated to be as low at 10,000,000,000. Heck you could even cut that down for 10,000,000 just for because and it would still be an impressive possibility. Of course this does not even account for moons on each of the planets, which may multi the number back up many times over.

    These are of course just my rambling numbers. If you really want a true scientific equation to figure out how many worlds have life you will need something like the Drake Equation...but then again this equation is debatable to be based on the assumption that we are looking for carbon based life forms.


    The Drake Equation
    N = R * f p n e f l f i f c L

    Where,

    N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose radio emissions are detectable.

    R* = The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.

    f p = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.

    n e = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.

    fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.

    f i = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.

    f c = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.

    L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space

    http://www.seti.org/seti/seti_science/


    We live in a relatively young part of the universe. If above is really true there is high probability that there can be civilizations that are older than ours. I have heard / read a growing number of astronomers & scientists stating that it is becoming more remarkable that earth is a one of kind, single spot in universe with life than the fact that there is other life out there. One of the biggest questions buzzing around now, is not IF there is life, but how can we find it.

    Here is an interesting and very detailed speech given by Professor Stephen Hawking on ET life:
    http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/life.html

    Here is quote from it:

    Why have we not been visited?
    1) The probability of life appearing is very low
    2) The probability of life is reasonable but the probability of intelligent life is low.
    3) The probability of evolving to our present state is reasonable, but then civilization destroys itself
    4) There is other intelligent life in the galaxy, but it has not bothered to come here.

    What are the chances that we will encounter some alien form of life, as we explore the galaxy. If the argument about the time scale for the appearance of life on Earth is correct, there ought to be many other stars, whose planets have life on them. Some of these stellar systems could have formed 5 billion years before the Earth. So why is the galaxy not crawling with self designing mechanical or biological life forms? Why hasn't the Earth been visited, and even colonised. I discount suggestions that UFO's contain beings from outer space. I think any visits by aliens, would be much more obvious, and probably also, much more unpleasant.

    What is the explanation of why we have not been visited? One possibility is that the argument, about the appearance of life on Earth, is wrong. Maybe the probability of life spontaneously appearing is so low, that Earth is the only planet in the galaxy, or in the observable universe, in which it happened. Another possibility is that there was a reasonable probability of forming self reproducing systems, like cells, but that most of these forms of life did not evolve intelligence. We are used to thinking of intelligent life, as an inevitable consequence of evolution. But the Anthropic Principle should warn us to be wary of such arguments. It is more likely that evolution is a random process, with intelligence as only one of a large number of possible outcomes. It is not clear that intelligence has any long-term survival value. Bacteria, and other single cell organisms, will live on, if all other life on Earth is wiped out by our actions. There is support for the view that intelligence, was an unlikely development for life on Earth, from the chronology of evolution. It took a very long time, two and a half billion years, to go from single cells to multi-cell beings, which are a necessary precursor to intelligence. This is a good fraction of the total time available, before the Sun blows up. So it would be consistent with the hypothesis, that the probability for life to develop intelligence, is low. In this case, we might expect to find many other life forms in the galaxy, but we are unlikely to find intelligent life. Another way, in which life could fail to develop to an intelligent stage, would be if an asteroid or comet were to collide with the planet. We have just observed the collision of a comet, Schumacher-Levi, with Jupiter. It produced a series of enormous fireballs. It is thought the collision of a rather smaller body with the Earth, about 70 million years ago, was responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs. A few small early mammals survived, but anything as large as a human, would have almost certainly been wiped out. It is difficult to say how often such collisions occur, but a reasonable guess might be every twenty million years, on average. If this figure is correct, it would mean that intelligent life on Earth has developed only because of the lucky chance that there have been no major collisions in the last 70 million years. Other planets in the galaxy, on which life has developed, may not have had a long enough collision free period to evolve intelligent beings.

    A third possibility is that there is a reasonable probability for life to form, and to evolve to intelligent beings, in the external transmission phase. But at that point, the system becomes unstable, and the intelligent life destroys itself. This would be a very pessimistic conclusion. I very much hope it isn't true. I prefer a fourth possibility: there are other forms of intelligent life out there, but that we have been overlooked. There used to be a project called SETI, the search for extra-terrestrial intelligence. It involved scanning the radio frequencies, to see if we could pick up signals from alien civilisations. I thought this project was worth supporting, though it was cancelled due to a lack of funds. But we should have been wary of answering back, until we have develop a bit further. Meeting a more advanced civilisation, at our present stage, might be a bit like the original inhabitants of America meeting Columbus. I don't think they were better off for it.

    So the question comes down to.......Are we really alone?
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 06/29/2005 at 02:23 AM.
  2. #2  
    The Greys...always be wary of the Greys...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  3.    #3  
    Watch your PC! They are my friends and pick me up every month on the second Tuesday of the week!
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 06/28/2005 at 11:29 PM.
  4. #4  
    Thats an old article! Very interesting stuff thought, I love it and do not think we're alone
    Can an intelligence create another intelligence more intelligent than itself? Are we more intelligent than the evolutionary process that created us? In turn, will the intelligence that we are creating come to exceed that of its creator?


    [ Treo 650 on Sprint ]
  5.    #5  
    I know it is a about 10 months old, but after watching a doc on Disc recently it reminded me of it and decided to share.
  6. #6  
    Well, originally I'd of said that the probability is favorable for life out there besides our own....but after this..., I'd have to say...Yes, we're alone. If Tommy boy says it's so...then it must NOT be so He's a decent actor...but I don't think "he's playing with a full deck".
  7. #7  
    The question is not "Are we really alone". It's of course we're not alone but which version of the 10 commandments will go in the courthouse? Ours or theirs? Or merge them?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The question is not "Are we really alone". It's of course we're not alone but which version of the 10 commandments will go in the courthouse? Ours or theirs? Or merge them?
    That's a silly question... Of course we'd use theirs.... if it's Christian, we can't use it in our Government...but their commandments would be protected!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    That's a silly question... Of course we'd use theirs.... if it's Christian, we can't use it in our Government...but their commandments would be protected!
    I was taking a jab at HobbesIsReal from the context of another thread.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I was taking a jab at HobbesIsReal from the context of another thread.
    Yeah, I know...been reading up on that one too...
  11. #11  
    there is now estimated to be over 20 billion solar system............."Billions and Billions" (said like Carl Sagan of course)

    The sheer numbers are mind boggling.......and how can the universe expand into nothingness????
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The question is not "Are we really alone". It's of course we're not alone but which version of the 10 commandments will go in the courthouse? Ours or theirs? Or merge them?
    Neither - that would be an endorsement

    BTW, nice to see some fun picking instead of sniping
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Neither - that would be an endorsement

    BTW, nice to see some fun picking instead of sniping
    good answer and nice one too, Da!
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 06/29/2005 at 02:59 PM.
  14.    #14  
    I know this is a slight tangent from my original post....but here some funny serious articles:

    Survey Reveals 75% Believe in Existence of ET Life
    http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8587/S...ce-of-ET-Life/

    TEN THINGS YOU SHOULD DO IF YOU ENCOUNTER A UFO Believe it or not, this is a serious article
    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...KG02DC5U41.DTL

    UFOs get involved in Mexican Political Race
    http://www.ktvotv3.com/Global/story....8&nav=1LFsbPce
    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...-ufo23-ON.html

    What would happen if you decide to fire on an extraterrestrial UFO?
    http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/3242.asp

    NASA Hacker Searched for UFO Evidence
    http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=48558

    UFOs are Real - UFOs are Friendly - Your Governments Know this
    http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/6/emw250966.htm
  15. #15  
    I think the biggest concern would be what politically party the aliens would associate themselves to. Democrat/Liberal or Republican. Also, possibly they could help us raise an army of zombie dogs to win the Alaskan Sled-Dog races. Since the dogs have already been frozen, perhaps they will have certain cold-immunities.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilghost
    I think the biggest concern would be what politically party the aliens would associate themselves to. Democrat/Liberal or Republican. Also, possibly they could help us raise an army of zombie dogs to win the Alaskan Sled-Dog races. Since the dogs have already been frozen, perhaps they will have certain cold-immunities.
    What if they, (gulp), chose the Libertarians!
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    What if they, (gulp), chose the Libertarians!
    Upon return to their homeworld they would immediately begin attacking the successful mission, calling it a quagmire and a waste of resources. They would attack and moan about the current form of government, yet would not offer any other ideas for improvement that were rational or logical. Their civilization would be ruled by emotion instead of logical evaluation of situations. Next, they would begin to madiate nanny laws requiring folks to wear seatbelts and other such nonsense. They would elect a series of liars and selfish charasmatic puppets, elected on sheer looks alone, who would drain the economy and work towards stripping away property rights and other rights once excercised by the masses.

    Finally, the civilization would implode on itself due to the bumbling mass of citizens who cannot strive forward with innovation due to the legal ramifications, the nanny laws, and the economic resources being drained by handouts. The lazy, ignorant masses would reproduce at an amazing rate while getting hand-outs from the government because it's the "human thing to do". The remaining non-leeches would become exasperated by the situation and feel cornered at the decay of their once grand civilization, having outstanding ideas but being able to deliver on none of them due to the poisioned minds of the masses. Eventually they would give up, becoming overwhelmed by the ignorant.

    All the while, the newly formed media would seed lies and mistruthes about the situation, declaring a new panacea, and manipulating the people at will to meet their agenda. Eventually, after they destroyed the civilization, they would find someone else to blame for their destruction of society.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    What if they, (gulp), chose the Libertarians!
    Don't be silly daThomas, everyone knows they're Green

    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    What if they, (gulp), chose the Libertarians!
    Oh yeah, here's my one-liner.

    "If they chose the Libertarians that would simply prove that we were not visited by intelligent life, and to keep searching"
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilghost
    Upon return to their homeworld they would immediately begin attacking the successful mission, calling it a quagmire and a waste of resources. They would attack and moan about the current form of government, yet would not offer any other ideas for improvement that were rational or logical. Their civilization would be ruled by emotion instead of logical evaluation of situations. Next, they would begin to madiate nanny laws requiring folks to wear seatbelts and other such nonsense. They would elect a series of liars and selfish charasmatic puppets, elected on sheer looks alone, who would drain the economy and work towards stripping away property rights and other rights once excercised by the masses.

    Finally, the civilization would implode on itself due to the bumbling mass of citizens who cannot strive forward with innovation due to the legal ramifications, the nanny laws, and the economic resources being drained by handouts. The lazy, ignorant masses would reproduce at an amazing rate while getting hand-outs from the government because it's the "human thing to do". The remaining non-leeches would become exasperated by the situation and feel cornered at the decay of their once grand civilization, having outstanding ideas but being able to deliver on none of them due to the poisioned minds of the masses. Eventually they would give up, becoming overwhelmed by the ignorant.

    All the while, the newly formed media would seed lies and mistruthes about the situation, declaring a new panacea, and manipulating the people at will to meet their agenda. Eventually, after they destroyed the civilization, they would find someone else to blame for their destruction of society.
    The Libertarians wanna have a little talk with you regarding this libelous post!
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