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  1. #21  
    The constitution is ultimately our only defense. It's the rule underlying the law. Enough of this, though. Somone figure out why my 650 won't allow me to surf the web with DUN!

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=88824
    Got Darts?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Because they cannot believe all others don't believe as they do and they have a forum through which they are able to chastize the non-believers
    This may be true but I think its mostly built on economics. IF they wanted people to believe them, they wouldnt try to get the story out first when its completely wrong (hence losing credibility and defeating their purpose?)
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Because they cannot believe all others don't believe as they do and they have a forum through which they are able to chastize the non-believers
    nahh! They're just greedy money-grubbing corporations like everybody else (though they wrap themselves in a sanctimonious blanket of "journalistic integrity"). Almost 80% of the media outlets (broadcast, newspapers, radio) are owned by just a handful of corporations - whose only aim is to make money.

    The MSM kept their trap shut during the early stages of the war in Iraq because they wanted a front seat this time - they did not want a repeat of Gulf War I where they were shut out. However once the fireworks were over and they'd milked the war for all they could, then they turned on the establishment and started peddling fear (was this war justified? another quagmire, etc...)

    And yes - the MSM will focus on the people who make news (or more accurately, on those who will help them make news) - so it makes sense to them to bash Karl Rove than a nobody like Durbin.

    Even during the clinton years, the MSM milked the monica thingy for all it was worth - and I remember hearing some reporting on the Whitewater affair almost constantly.

    So I don't think the MSM leans left or right - they just bend over for the money.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by triplespear
    I guess my point is that people become so impassioned about their personal beliefs that they sometimes lose sight of the larger picture.
    Without a doubt. But this confirms the idea that we think of ourselves first, our fellow man second.

    Quote Originally Posted by triplespear
    Case in point: a person who would commit suicide in the service of some man's ideology.
    Actually, you could argue this the other way and say that he put someone else's views before his own...(why do you think people who are patriotic join the military during war time...its a higher calling.)

    Quote Originally Posted by triplespear
    Or to a lesser extent: a person who would voluntarily give up constitutional freedoms in pursuit of a false sense of security or an overly emotional expression of patriotism.
    Again, this seems to argue the other way. If someone makes the argument that we should give up some constitutional rights (ala Patriot Act) so that we can be 'safer' as a country, then they seem to be looking at it from the perspective of the 'big picture' and not their own selfish interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by triplespear
    Bottom line: no government is ever to be trusted. That's why the constitution exists.
    I agree except it would be '100% trusted'. We have to trust in it at least a little bit.
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    So...you trust the Constitution?
    Yeah (my interpretation of course )
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    Even during the clinton years, the MSM milked the monica thingy for all it was worth
    Much like Monica milked the Bill thingy??
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Much like Monica milked the Bill thingy??
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    nahh! They're just greedy money-grubbing corporations like everybody else (though they wrap themselves in a sanctimonious blanket of "journalistic integrity"). Almost 80% of the media outlets (broadcast, newspapers, radio) are owned by just a handful of corporations - whose only aim is to make money.

    The MSM kept their trap shut during the early stages of the war in Iraq because they wanted a front seat this time - they did not want a repeat of Gulf War I where they were shut out. However once the fireworks were over and they'd milked the war for all they could, then they turned on the establishment and started peddling fear (was this war justified? another quagmire, etc...)

    And yes - the MSM will focus on the people who make news (or more accurately, on those who will help them make news) - so it makes sense to them to bash Karl Rove than a nobody like Durbin.

    Even during the clinton years, the MSM milked the monica thingy for all it was worth - and I remember hearing some reporting on the Whitewater affair almost constantly.

    So I don't think the MSM leans left or right - they just bend over for the money.
    I agree with all of this but I also think you cant seperate out the idea that they (the owners) are political too...so if they can bend over for the money and smear those they hate...its like getting 21 in blackjack!
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I agree with all of this but I also think you cant seperate out the idea that they (the owners) are political too...so if they can bend over for the money and smear those they hate...its like getting 21 in blackjack!
    true - but most corporations are careful not to take too extreme a political stance since politicians come and go (thank god for democracy!)
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Study: Radio listeners are most polarized

    A study by researchers at the University of Missouri School of Journalism in Columbia found that radio listeners are the most polarized news consumers, due in part to shows hosted by conservative commentators such as Rush Limbaugh. Conservative listeners, the study revealed, have their views reinforced by these shows, which may lead to even more extreme views. Newspaper readers, conversely, are the least polarized, since without the time constraints of radio and TV, newspapers are better able to impart information on all sides of an issue. Surprisingly, Internet users also are less polarized, perhaps because of the depth and breadth of information that the Web can provide.

    http://www.usatoday.com/life/digest.htm
    I couldn't find the article...but did they include talk radio hosts like Al Franken?

    I already agreed that it can be extreme on both sides, that is why I have a hard time listening to either Rush or Al Franken.

    Fox News and Talk Radio are parts of MSM
    Here are some interesting ratings from last week:

    FOX NEWS'S RATINGS NOW TRIPLE CNN'S
    Friday, June 17 2005
    1.
    The return of the cable-TV news networks to relative normalcy following the Michael Jackson trial saw ratings for Fox News expanding still further in primetime, while the Nancy Grace show on CNN Headline News appeared to be cannibalizing the audience from the main CNN channel. Fox News, with an average 2.2 million viewers, commanded 57.9 percent of the entire cable news audience Wednesday night during primetime, compared with 52 percent a year ago. CNN's share was only 18.9 percent with an average 731,000 viewers. CNN Headline News, with 472,000 viewers, drew 12.2 percent of the audience.
    http://www.showbizdata.com/contacts/...s.cfm?id=38846
  11. #31  
    I like these links better than your Washington Times link

    The attraction to Fox News for some is not only is it right leaning, and much of its programming echoes conservative talk radio in the form of editorial shows, but also because they pump in lots of fluff news intermingled with the real stuff. Who wants to hear about world events when you can find out the status on Britney's pregnancy? Obviously a lot of people according to your poll.

    My biggest gripe (among all these things) with that station is the talking points emboldened at the bottom of the screen used not as headlines, but to summarize (in SOMEONE'S view) major world events, speeches (while they're transpiring), etc.

    The USA Today link points to newspaper readers as they least polarized. Naturally that's the least spoon fed, as opposed to listening to someone's voice, where you can't trace back over their words to evaluate or analyze so conveniently. Thus talk radio has been a boon for hammering Conservative messages in the past several years. Franken is among few that are trying to balance the scale.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by atnight
    Franken is among few that are trying to balance the scale.
    Oh, there's an unbiased viewpoint...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I already agreed that it can be extreme on both sides, that is why I have a hard time listening to either Rush or Al Franken.
    Amen...I dont even attempt (even though they may occassionally say something worthwhile.)
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  14. #34  
    if it media wasnt biased i wouldnt have to go to CBC and CNN and BBC and Al-Jazeera to get news...i could just trust one source
  15. #35  
    Yes there is extreme bias. Every tv news outlet except for Foxnews has a liberal bias. Foxnews absolutely has a conservative bias. I enjoy foxnews minus O'Reilly & the Cricket.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Oh, there's an unbiased viewpoint...
    Perhaps you misunderstood me. Of course Franken's political offiliation is obvious. Duh! It's just that talk radio programming is largely right and far right politically. He entered the medium to add a different perspective. That's what I meant by balancing the scale. It's not a matter of bias or not. All those talk shows are biased. They're not news- they're commentary.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by atnight
    Perhaps you misunderstood me. Of course Franken's political offiliation is obvious. Duh! It's just that talk radio programming is largely right and far right politically. He entered the medium to add a different perspective. That's what I meant by balancing the scale. It's not a matter of bias or not. All those talk shows are biased. They're not news- they're commentary.
    Dont forget Oprah and Dr Phil
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  18. #38  
    Springer's a Democrat.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Yes there is extreme bias. Every tv news outlet except for Foxnews has a liberal bias. Foxnews absolutely has a conservative bias. I enjoy foxnews minus O'Reilly & the Cricket.

    That's a pretty sweeping generalization about everyone but Fox being liberal. A, the proof of this has been questionable at best, but so many of the cable networks are replacing their hard news with commentary, that it's becoming even tougher to say. To say all are sensationalistic is certainly fair.
    O'Reilly, Hannity, Dennis Miller and Tucker Carlson are all right wing pundits, and only two of them have shows on Fox. But again, I suppose MSNBC doesn't summarize speeches and issues with talking points at the bottom of the screen and inject the fluff/celeb news they into regular newscasts. I'm not criticizing you for enjoying Fox at all. I'm just critical of their approach to programming. Should be called, "Fox Commentary Channel".
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by atnight
    That's a pretty sweeping generalization about everyone but Fox being liberal. A, the proof of this has been questionable at best, but so many of the cable networks are replacing their hard news with commentary, that it's becoming even tougher to say. To say all are sensationalistic is certainly fair.
    O'Reilly, Hannity, Dennis Miller and Tucker Carlson are all right wing pundits, and only two of them have shows on Fox. But again, I suppose MSNBC doesn't summarize speeches and issues with talking points at the bottom of the screen and inject the fluff/celeb news they into regular newscasts. I'm not criticizing you for enjoying Fox at all. I'm just critical of their approach to programming. Should be called, "Fox Commentary Channel".
    None of it is news...it's entertainment. Who's kidding whom.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
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