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  1. #381  
    Wow, maybe 1911 is right that you actually enjoy only the bad news.



    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    2 steps to fix that 1) Find article stating such 2) Post it here.
  2. #382  
    The military is loathe to release information about how many Jihadis they kill because then the media will embark upon a "IT'S A VIETNAM BODY COUNT" screech.

    RUMINT from the front has it that the sniper squad from the Ohio battalion that was ambushed and killed last week has been avenged by 3/25. GET SOME, MY BROTHERS!
  3. NRG
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       #383  
    It's here.

    Source: CBS News

    Video


    Undeclared Civil War In Iraq


    (CBS) Behind the blood and chaos of the insurgents' bombs, there is an undeclared civil war already underway in Iraq, between the Sunni minority who ruled this country under Saddam and the Shiite majority.

    CBS News correspondent Lara Logan reports there is a secret, ruthless cleansing of the country's towns and cities. Bodies — blindfolded, bound and executed — just appear, like the rotting corpses of 36 Sunni men that turned up in a dry riverbed south of Baghdad.

    CBS News traced 16 of those men to a single street in a Baghdad suburb, where family members showed CBS News how the killers forced their way into their homes in the middle of the night and dragged away their sons and fathers.

    "My uncles were tortured, they even poured acid on them," a young boy told CBS News.

    Clutching photographs of the murdered men, the women and children left behind came together to grieve.

    -snip-
  4. #384  
    It's Here:

    Iraq may get unity government on Saturday

    BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's parliament is expected to vote on Saturday on a new government in which the country's main religious and ethnic groups will share power, officials said on Wednesday, signaling an end to months of political paralysis.

    --------------

    Parliament Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani told lawmakers he expected them to vote on a new cabinet in three days' time.

    One deputy had asked him if the assembly's next session, scheduled for Saturday, would include a vote on the government.

    Mashhadani replied: "That's what we have from the prime minister's office. We've had a note saying the prime minister wants to present his government to parliament on Saturday."

    A source close to Maliki said he hoped to complete the cabinet line-up on Thursday, four days before a constitutional deadline.

    ---------------

    Maliki, who has won grudging respect from some Sunni minority leaders for his no-nonsense style, has faced some of his toughest opposition within his own Alliance bloc.

    ---------------

    Whoever takes over the interior ministry faces the huge task of reining in dozens of armed groups linked to an array of political camps. Maliki has said this is a priority.

    FULL STORY: http://reuters.myway.com//article/20...S-IRAQ-DC.html
  5. #385  
    "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. - Thomas Jefferson "

    This sounds like another make believe Jefferson quote.
  6. #386  
    Iraq Envisions Security Takeover in 18 Months
    Wednesday, May 24, 2006

    BAGHDAD, Iraq — Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Wednesday that Iraqi forces are capable of taking control of security in all of Iraq within 18 months, but still need more recruits, training and equipment.

    ----------------

    After meeting with Denmark's prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, al-Maliki issued a statement saying: "Our forces are capable of taking over the security in all Iraqi provinces within a year and a half."

    His brief statement praised Iraqi forces for their fight against insurgents, but said his military needs more manpower, training and equipment.

    --------------

    On Monday, during British Prime Minister Tony Blair's visit, al-Maliki said Iraqi security forces would start assuming full responsibility for some provinces and cities next month, beginning a process leading to the eventual withdrawal of all coalition forces.

    Blair and al-Maliki declined to set a timetable, but British media quoted an unidentified senior British official as saying coalition forces should be out of Iraq within four years.

    The British and Iraqi leaders said "responsibility for much of Iraq's territorial security" should be transferred to Iraqi control by December. Al-Maliki said two of Iraq's most violent provinces, Baghdad and Anbar, may be the last where coalition forces maintain control.

    FULL STORY: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196772,00.html
  7. #387  
    BAGHDAD, Iraq — Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Wednesday that Iraqi forces are capable of taking control of security in all of Iraq within 18 months, but still need more recruits, training and equipment.
    He doesn't seem to be afraid to give a timetable?
    If you are short of recruits, training, and equipment, how are you capable???
  8. #388  
    His readiness will be contingent upon those troops and equipment.

    If the Dem/Socialists win, they'll be cut off. The same way Vietnam was.

    And the more I think about it, Iraq DOES parallel Vietnam. A war of containment against an evil idealogy (Communism then, Islamofacism now) supported by a bordering state (China then, Iran now.) Whining liberals and a hostile press then, whining liberals and a hostile press now.
  9. #389  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    He doesn't seem to be afraid to give a timetable?
    If you are short of recruits, training, and equipment, how are you capable???
    I don't doubt that being the new Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is under a lot of pressure to assume control ASAP....and show that he is. I personally think from a realistic point of view, he is being optimistic, which is why I think it will fall somewhere between the 18 - 48 months pointed out in the article. But what do I know, the article does not address plans and resources already in motion to fill those needs.
  10. NRG
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       #390  
    I am glad they(Iraqis) are making the steps towards a cohesive government, that can at some point provide for the Iraqis. But, w/ this violence it is going to be very difficult. I have always believed if we went into Iraq, this secular violence would take hold, and the only way out of it would be to split Iraq into three parts (Kurds in the north, Sunnis in the middle w/ a few oil fields thrown in, Shias in the south). This may be the easy way but, how could we get them to have faith in being an Iraqi, and not just a Sunni, ****e, etc.. Cause what we are battling is an "Us and Them" mentality, where we/they should be on a "We" mentality. I also have heard of reports of some Iraqis taking up a Neighborhood Watch like program. There purpose is just same as here in the US. I find this type of action really encouraging to instilling a "We" mentality. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by NRG; 05/29/2006 at 10:31 PM. Reason: Poor spelling skills
  11. NRG
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       #391  
    Wow.


    Violence 'out of control' in Baghdad -- 50 die in a day

    Source: SFGate

    (07-12) 04:00 PDT Baghdad -- More than 50 people were killed in Baghdad Tuesday in violence that included a double suicide bombing near busy entrances to the fortified Green Zone, scattered shootings, mortar attacks, a series of car bombs and the ambush of a bus with Shiite mourners returning from a burial.

    Tuesday's killings, many of them apparently executed with sectarian vengeance, raised the three-day death toll in the capital alone to well over 100, magnified the daunting challenges facing the new government and deepened a sense of dread among Iraqis.

    Many of the attacks, particularly those in neighborhoods primarily populated by one religious group or another, bore the hallmarks of sectarian militias, both Sunni Arab and Shiite. Militias now appear to be dictating the ebb and flow of life in Iraq, and have left the new government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and U.S. officials scrambling to come up with a military and political strategy to combat them.

    <snip>

    The worsening security in Baghdad and several neighboring provinces, which many Iraqis are saying feels like a low-grade civil war, prompted lawmakers Tuesday to summon the interior and defense ministers to address parliament on Thursday, according to Jalal Adin al-Sagheer, a senior official in the country's largest Shiite political bloc.
  12. NRG
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       #392  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. - Thomas Jefferson "

    This sounds like another make believe Jefferson quote.
    http://en.thinkexist.com/quotation/a...re/225983.html

    http://www.wisdomquotes.com/cat_democracy.html
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #393  
    Wow... SFgate. Now thats an objective source.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. NRG
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       #394  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Wow... SFgate. Now thats an objective source.
    How bout this?


    Dear Democratic Colleague,

    We are spending $8 billion a month in Iraq. that equates to 2 billion dollars a week, or 267 million dollars a day, or 11 million dollars AN HOUR.

    Attached are some comparisons between what we are spending in Iraq as we "stay the course" indefinitely and what those funds could be used for instead.

    I've been fighting for our military to get out of Iraq because I'm concerned about the loss of our troops and the future of our military and also because I believe they have accomplished their mission there and the Iraqis must resolve their internal conflict themselves. However, I also wanted to demonstrate what these expenses mean to domestic policy in the United States and give you an idea of just some of the things that what we could accomplish with this amount of money.

    Sincerely,

    JOHN P. MURTHA
    Member of Congress
    NATIONAL SECURITY

    $33.1 billion/yr Department of Homeland Security FY 07 budget
    (4 months in Iraq)

    $10 billion (1-time) Equipping commercial airliners with defenses against shoulder fired missiles
    (5 weeks in Iraq)

    $8.6 billion/7 years Shortage of international aid needed to rebuild Afghanistan
    (one month in Iraq)

    $5.2 billion (1-time) estimated need for capital improvements to secure public transportation system (trains, subways, buses)

    (3 weeks in Iraq)

    $1.5 billion/year Radiation detectors needed at all US ports (rejected due to cost)
    (5 days in Iraq)


    $1.4 billion/ year Double the COPS (community police grants) program
    (5 days in Iraq)

    $800 million/year public transportation personnel training and technical support
    (72 hours in Iraq)

    $700 million/year 100% screening of all air cargo - rejected because of
    (2 days in Iraq) cost (1/4 of domestic shipping and 1/2 of international shipping
    is done on passenger planes)


    $350 million (1-time) Make emergency radio systems interoperable
    (1.2 days in Iraq) (recommended after 9/11 but hasn't happened yet)


    $500 million/year Double the firefighters grant program
    (2 days in Iraq)

    $94 million/year Restore cuts to cities hit on 9/11 in Homeland Security budget
    (8-1/2 hours in Iraq)

    HEALTH CARE/VETERANS

    $36 billion/5 years reduction for Medicare spending in President's FY 07 budget
    (4-1/2 months in Iraq)

    $5 billion/5 years Cut in Medicaid in President's FY 2007 budget
    (2-1/2 weeks in Iraq)

    $2.5 billion/5 years VA health care premium increases in this year's budget. Premiums will double and triple and drug co-payments will increase, costing our military retirees $2.4 billion over 5 years
    (9 days in Iraq)

    $100 million Additional funding recommended for mental health research for Veterans
    (9 hours in Iraq)

    $48 million Medical and prosthetic research for Veterans
    (half a day in Iraq)

    $65 million/yr National Institutes of Health research funding cuts in this year's budget (scientists are leaving the field of health research because funding has been cut so severely)
    (6 hours in Iraq)

    $15 billion/yr Provide health insurance to 9 million children with no health insurance
    (1-1/2 weeks in Iraq)

    $118 million/yr The Commodity Supplemental Food Program, which provides nutritional food packages for less than $20 a month to more than 400,000 elderly people - eliminated in the President's budget
    (12 hours in Iraq)


    EDUCATION

    $3.4 billion/yr Cut in education budget in President's FY 07 budget from FY 06 funding level (over 40 programs including drug-free schools, federal support for the arts,technology and parent-resource centers).
    (13 days in Iraq)

    $664 million/yr Perkins Loan program cut in President's FY 07 budget (would help
    463,000 low-income students attend college)
    (2-1/2 days in Iraq)

    $99 million/yr Even Start (eliminated in President's budget)
    (9 hours in Iraq)

    ENVIRONMENT/INFRASTRUCTURE

    $300 million President's cut to EPA budget in FY 2007
    (1 day, 3 hours in Iraq)

    $253 billion/30 years Clean up contaminated sites in US (Up to 350,000 contaminated sites will require cleanup over the next 30 years according to a report released by the EPA.)
    (2 years in Iraq)

    $9.11 billion National Park Service maintenance backlog
    (1 month, 10 days in Iraq)

    $6 billion Forest Service maintenance backlog
    (3 weeks in Iraq)

    $2 billion Fish and Wildlife Service maintenance backlog
    (2 weeks in Iraq)

    $47.2 billion/yr Miscellaneous user fees throughout government imposed by President's budget on taxpayers
    (6 months in Iraq)


    $1.7 billion/yr Grants to states cut in 2007 budget
    (1 week in Iraq)

    $15 million/yr Double the Save America's Treasures program (cut in half from last year's budget)
    (1.3 hours in Iraq)

    DEFENSE

    $6 billion Double the number of Navy ships we are buying in the 2007 bill from 6 ships to 12.
    (3 weeks in Iraq)

    $8 billion Double the number of total Air Force aircraft we are buying in this bill. That's right ? we could double the number of F-22s, Joint Strike Fighters,
    C-130's, Global Hawks and Predators we are buying. Or, we could double the number of Navy and Marine Corps aircraft we are buying F-18s, V-22s, KC-130Js, and so on.
    (1 month in Iraq)
    Last edited by NRG; 07/12/2006 at 07:50 PM.
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    #395  
    Here's some more interesting statistics for you.

    If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq Theater of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000.

    The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000.That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.

    Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington D.C.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #396  
    The financial burden is harsh, NO DOUBT! But I just don't think we can leave anytime soon.

    NRG: You know how bin laden commented on how the whole black hawk down thing and how changed his perception of US "guts". Referring to how we only took limited casualties and then got the crap out. What do you think about this statement? Should it be disregarded? How do we apply it to the current situation? How do we apply it to future altercations with Al Qadea?

    No counter arguments are being prepared, I was just wondering f you have thought about this before? Or if you thought is was AT AL relevant.
  17. #397  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Here's some more interesting statistics for you.

    If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq Theater of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000.

    The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000.That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.

    Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington D.C.
    Jesus! Well then this is going GREAT!! I will tell that to my neighbor's dead son. In fact, lets round up teenagers in DC and keep them safe over in Iraq.

    Oh wait, we're doing that already.
  18. NRG
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       #398  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Here's some more interesting statistics for you.

    If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq Theater of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000.

    The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000.That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.

    Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington D.C.
    This is almost the same as the 'Detroit' chain letter. Let me help you w/ this. This old but you will catch the drift.



    *In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. *

    Well, that’s close enough – there were 366 murders in Detroit in 2003. Per capita, then, the cited killing statistics translate into 3.84 murders per 100,000 residents in Detroit (the country’s fifth most violent city), vs. 28.26 combat-related deaths per 100,000 troops in Iraq. Notice a problem with comparing those two results and saying that they are equivalent? I thought so.

    A far fairer statistic for comparison (than the murder rate among communities full of thugs and thieves) is to the FBI's Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted (LEOKA) report. For the whole year of 2002, 52 officers were reported "feloniously killed" in the United States (not including Puerto Rico), out of 482,762 officers employed in the participating law enforcement agencies. That comes out to 10.77 officers killed per 100,000 officers per annum; just 0.915 officers killed per 100,000 officers over a typical 31 days. In other words, serving in Iraq is at least 30 times as dangerous as working as a police officer in the United States, even if we trust the completeness of the Pentagon's combat-related death statistics.

    *That's just one American City, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq... *

    Nice try at a comparison, but you can’t compare apples with oranges, even if they’re both fruits. Iraq is a much deadlier place than Detroit – even with the Green Zone and road blocks and check points. Just what do you think the murder rate might be in Detroit if it were fortified to the extent that Iraq now is? I think it’s reasonable to assume that the Detroit murder rate of 1 per day might be considerably lower. Of course, none of what you’ve stated above takes into account the horrendous rate of soldier woundings, which, I would argue, qualifies as violence. More than 6000 soldiers to date have been wounded – more than half of those not ready to return to combat in 72 hours. Somehow I don’t think there are that many wounded lying on the streets of Detroit…But, even the woundings and deaths don’t touch on the amount of psychological trauma being caused to those soldiers, especially with their extended tours of duty. A visit to a V.A. hospital will vividly remind you that deaths are only a small part of the toll that war takes on our gallant troops.

    Of course, you’ve conveniently left out all the non-military deaths and woundings, American, Iraqi and ‘other’, since the end of major combat operations(!). The murder and assassination rate of Iraqis themselves and foreigners has been tremendously high. Or don’t they count too? Iraq is now an extremely violent place – anyone who would argue that Iraq is not more violent than Detroit is not dealing with the facts on the ground.
  19. #399  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    This is almost the same as the 'Detroit' chain letter. Let me help you w/ this. This old but you will catch the drift.
    I saw one of those during the first Gulf War.
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