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  1.    #1  
    This article made me start thinking about "suspended animation" for humans in space flight and other activities:
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-13762,00.html

    From the article:
    Pittsburgh's Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research has developed a technique in which subject's veins are drained of blood and filled with an ice-cold salt solution.

    The animals are considered scientifically dead, as they stop breathing and have no heartbeat or brain activity.

    But three hours later, their blood is replaced and the zombie dogs are brought back to life with an electric shock.

    Plans to test the technique on humans should be realised within a year, according to the Safar Centre.
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  2. #2  
    My biggest concern, did these dogs in their zombie state crave brains, or flesh?

    Actually, I just wonder what this does with religion. If you're brain-dead/dead, are you in heaven/hell, or do you cease to exist? When you are re-animated, are you ripped from heaven/hell, or do you just continue your existance without being able to see or decipher any type of delay.

    Do you dream?

    Testing on humans would yeild some very heated topics, but more importantly, I think it would assist in unraveling some of the questions many have about life after death. The findings could be catastrophic on religion and unnerving to many. Just imagine if what were discovered was that once you were dead, you ceased to exist, or the converse, these people were in hell/heaven. With an EKG/EEG hooked up, they could monitor brain activity, and if it was absolute zero, I would imagine that the insinuation of any after-death experience could not be attributed to dreaming.

    With no brain activity, new additions to memory should not be possible, but what if they were, and you came back with new experiences? That would have to prove the existance of a soul or a higher plane of existance than the biological functions we see and know today.

    Mind boggling.
  3. #3  
    Certainly makes for some interesting discussion. As one of TC's resident Christies, I feel obligated to comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilghost
    My biggest concern, did these dogs in their zombie state crave brains, or flesh?

    Actually, I just wonder what this does with religion. If you're brain-dead/dead, are you in heaven/hell, or do you cease to exist? When you are re-animated, are you ripped from heaven/hell, or do you just continue your existance without being able to see or decipher any type of delay.

    Do you dream?

    Testing on humans would yeild some very heated topics
    especially sense the average person would not be inclined to volunteer
    Quote Originally Posted by evilghost
    , but more importantly, I think it would assist in unraveling some of the questions many have about life after death. The findings could be catastrophic on religion and unnerving to many. Just imagine if what were discovered was that once you were dead, you ceased to exist
    If that were the case, we still wouldn't know, because you could not be brought back. If the "same person" came back, they must have "been" somewhere
    Quote Originally Posted by evilghost
    , or the converse, these people were in hell
    in which case they would be relieved to come back
    Quote Originally Posted by evilghost
    /heaven
    probably a bit peeved to be disturbed
    Quote Originally Posted by evilghost
    . With an EKG/EEG hooked up, they could monitor brain activity, and if it was absolute zero, I would imagine that the insinuation of any after-death experience could not be attributed to dreaming.

    With no brain activity, new additions to memory should not be possible, but what if they were, and you came back with new experiences? That would have to prove the existance of a soul or a higher plane of existance than the biological functions we see and know today.

    Mind boggling.
  4. #4  
    Wow...this is fascinating and disturbing. As others have already said, the implications of such a procedure are incredible.

    I'm very curious to learn how they "killed" the animal and replaced the blood. Apart from the lower temperature, what prevents the cells from breaking down? Without oxygen how can one prevent brain cells from dying from anoxia? Our cells are equipped with mechanisms to deal with low levels of oxygen (one such gene/protein is HIF1a, Hypoxia Induced Factor 1a), but zero oxygen for 3 hours is a ludicrous situation! Really interesting!
  5. #5  
    "If that were the case, we still wouldn't know, because you could not be brought back. If the "same person" came back, they must have "been" somewhere"

    Not exacty true. If this occured, one could say your existance is bound to memory and thoughts, and because active thought was not occuring, you ceased to exist. Upon reanimation, active thought would commence including restoration of memory. So, if you're not thinking or remembering, you're don't exist. This would easily and quite logically prove that we are temporal and there is no soul. If this were the case, imagine the impact on society and civilization. If we're only "here for the moment" and there is no afterlife or ramifications for our doings, I could easily see almost a destruction in civilization as we see it today.

    "I think, therefore, I am". I would like to redefine that to say that "I remember, therefore, I am". Without memory, one cannot believe or define their existance. Example, lets say you forget everything you know every 250ms, so, every time you have a chance to think about existance or rational thought, you've already forgotten it.

    Personally, if there were a heaven/hell, which I believe there is, we could use this as a tool for those in the penial instituation. Show them that without belief in Christ, they will reap an eternity in hell. A "trial before you buy" if you will. I know if I woke up in Hell for 3 hours, I drop everything I had and start screaming to everyone who would listen about Jesus Christ and God.

    I also believe it would strike a big blow to religions that believe in re-incarnation, unless they would associate heaven as Nirvana.



    Crazy stuff.
  6. #6  
    Maybe the soul never goes anywhere during this duration...some cultures/religions believe that a ceremony is needed to send the spirit of the deceased to the afterlife.
  7. #7  
    this is really fascinating stuff, and while i am a huge proponent of science, and believe that God has given us the ability to discover ways to postpone death, ultimately i think that when it's your time to go, nothing is going to stop it.
    it's not a crack house, it's a crack home.
  8. #8  
    Or perhaps the intent could be know and therefore the soul would go nowhere?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherv
    Maybe the soul never goes anywhere during this duration...some cultures/religions believe that a ceremony is needed to send the spirit of the deceased to the afterlife.
    Yeah, but you would have to think, or at least believe, that when you're dead your soul is released. I don't think the ceremony would have any bearing on the actual release or not...
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    This article made me start thinking about "suspended animation" for humans in space flight and other activities:
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-13762,00.html

    From the article:
    All of the supposed "news" articles found in that section of their site appear to be a bunch of hoopla. Has anyone verified this to be a reliable source for information? The US government would give scientists a hard time if they tried this with lab rats, let alone dogs... think about it.
    .
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    All of the supposed "news" articles found in that section of their site appear to be a bunch of hoopla. Has anyone verified this to be a reliable source for information? The US government would give scientists a hard time if they tried this with lab rats, let alone dogs... think about it.
    http://www.safar.pitt.edu/

    Doesn't make mention of this event in particular, but of experiments of this nature.

    The Safar Center for Resuscitation Research of the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine addresses "resuscitation medicine" in its broadest sense through programs studying traumatic brain injury, cardiopulmonary arrest, hemorrhagic shock and suspended animation.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    http://www.safar.pitt.edu/

    Doesn't make mention of this event in particular, but of experiments of this nature.
    That's what I'm woried about..., that this site simply warps the truth a bit to make it seem real or at least plausible. I will say that I don't have any confidence in the validity of their reports, as I have just finished reading every "Weird News" article posted there and they are all very fishy and produce very few reliable hits, if any, on google (even the older posts).
    .
  13.    #13  
    I'm thinking that your soul stays in your body, because you are not actually "dead" yet. You're just really cold.
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  14. #14  
    I'm thinking that this experiment just confirms what most people suspect under the surface but are just too afraid to admit. That there is no after life.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  15. #15  
    after the superbowl
  16.    #16  

    CUSTOMER:
    Here's one.
    CART MASTER:
    Ninepence.
    DEAD PERSON:
    I'm not dead!
    CART MASTER:
    What?
    CUSTOMER:
    Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
    DEAD PERSON:
    I'm not dead!
    CART MASTER:
    'Ere. He says he's not dead!
    CUSTOMER:
    Yes, he is.
    DEAD PERSON:
    I'm not!
    CART MASTER:
    He isn't?
    CUSTOMER:
    Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
    DEAD PERSON:
    I'm getting better!
    CUSTOMER:
    No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
    CART MASTER:
    Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
    DEAD PERSON:
    I don't want to go on the cart!
    CUSTOMER:
    Oh, don't be such a baby.
    CART MASTER:
    I can't take him.
    DEAD PERSON:
    I feel fine!
    CUSTOMER:
    Well, do us a favour.
    CART MASTER:
    I can't.
    CUSTOMER:
    Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
    CART MASTER:
    No, I've got to go to the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
    CUSTOMER:
    Well, when's your next round?
    CART MASTER:
    Thursday.
    DEAD PERSON:
    I think I'll go for a walk.
    CUSTOMER:
    You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do?
    DEAD PERSON: [singing]
    I feel happy. I feel happy.
    [whop]
    CUSTOMER:
    Ah, thanks very much.
    CART MASTER:
    Not at all. See you on Thursday.
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  17. #17  
    One analogy of death would be to compare it to a battery operated device such as a your old Treo 600 (since it does not have NVS memory).

    When your T600 battery "dies" - it does not truly die, but just runs down to point where it can no longer sustain the T600 functions. The built-in memory can also no longer hold the data accumulated in it and we would declare it "brain dead". But say you kept the run-down T600 in liquid helium to minimize entropic losses: if the battery is recharged, then there is a theoretical possibility that you can recover some or most of the "lost" memory. However the longer you wait (say a couple of hundred years in the Arizona desert) then irreversible entropic losses would set in and make both the battery and memory totally dead.

    The same principles are used in trying to keep living organisms in a "suspended" state (usually involves deep freezing) that minimize entropic losses of the cellular "batteries" and halts the loss of cellular memories. I think most of the research is focussed in these areas of trying to minimize the losses during the freezing state and trying to establish a path to revive the organism from the deep freeze.
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    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  18. #18  
    I still think there is an ex-girlfriend joke in this whole zombie dog business but it just eludes me at this moment.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    LOL!
    Here's another one ...
    The Pet Shoppe

    A customer enters a pet shop.

    Customer: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

    (The owner does not respond.)

    C: 'Ello, Miss?

    Owner: What do you mean "miss"?

    C: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

    O: We're closin' for lunch.

    C: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

    O: Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

    C: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!

    O: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.

    C: Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

    O: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!

    C: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead.

    O: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!

    C: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up!

    (shouting at the cage)

    'Ello, Mister Polly Parrot! I've got a lovely fresh cuttle fish for you if you show...(owner hits the cage)

    O: There, he moved!

    C: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cage!

    O: I never!!

    C: Yes, you did!

    O: I never, never did anything...

    C: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO POLLY!!!!!

    Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!

    (Takes parrot out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)

    C: Now that's what I call a dead parrot.

    O: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!

    C: STUNNED?!?

    O: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Norwegian Blues stun easily, major.

    C: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.

    O: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords.

    C: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?

    O: The Norwegian Blue prefers kippin' on it's back! Remarkable bird, id'nit, squire? Lovely plumage!

    C: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the first place was that it had been NAILED there.

    (pause)

    O: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent 'em apart with its beak, and VOOM! Feeweeweewee!

    C: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!

    O: No no! 'E's pining!

    C: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!

    'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!
    'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
    'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!

    THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

    (pause)

    O: Well, I'd better replace it, then.

    (he takes a quick peek behind the counter)

    O: Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of parrots.

    C: I see. I see, I get the picture.

    O: I got a slug.

    (pause)

    C: (sweet as sugar) Pray, does it talk?

    O: Nnnnot really.

    C: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?

    O: Look, if you go to my brother's pet shop in Bolton, he'll replace the parrot for you.

    C: Bolton, eh? Very well.

    The customer leaves.

    The customer enters the same pet shop. The owner is putting on a false moustache.

    C: This is Bolton, is it?

    O: (with a fake mustache) No, it's Ipswitch.

    C: (looking at the camera) That's inter-city rail for you.

    The customer goes to the train station.

    He addresses a man standing behind a desk marked "Complaints".

    C: I wish to complain, British-Railways Person.

    Attendant: I DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS JOB, YOU KNOW!!!

    C: I beg your pardon...?

    A: I'm a qualified brain surgeon! I only do this job because I like being my own boss!

    C: Excuse me, this is irrelevant, isn't it?

    A: Yeah, well it's not easy to pad these python files out to 200 lines, you know.

    C: Well, I wish to complain. I got on the Bolton train and found myself deposited here in Ipswitch.

    A: No, this is Bolton.

    C: (to the camera) The pet shop man's brother was lying!!

    A: Can't blame British Rail for that.

    C: In that case, I shall return to the pet shop!

    He does.

    C: I understand this IS Bolton.

    O: (still with the fake mustache) Yes?

    C: You told me it was Ipswitch!

    O: ...It was a pun.

    C: (pause) A PUN?!?

    O: No, no...not a pun...What's that thing that spells the same backwards as forwards?

    C: (Long pause) A palindrome...?

    O: Yeah, that's it!

    C: It's not a palindrome! The palindrome of "Bolton" would be "Notlob"!! It don't work!!

    O: Well, what do you want?

    C: I'm not prepared to pursue my line of inquiry any longer as I think this is getting too silly!

    Sergeant-Major: Quite agree, quite agree, too silly, far too silly...
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    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  20.    #20  
    I never really wanted to be a Treo owner, you know. I actually wanted to be a lumberjack!
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