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  1.    #1  
    June 27 (Bloomberg) -- Governments can post the Ten Commandments on public property as part of a broader display of historical symbols, as long as officials aren't aiming to promote religion, the U.S. Supreme Court said.

    daThomas...what does this all mean??

    Here
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  2. #2  
    I think they got this right.......In particular I agree with:

    "Of course, the Ten Commandments are religious they were so viewed at their inception and so remain. The monument therefore has religious significance," Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote for the majority in the case involving the display outside the state capitol of Texas.

    "Simply having religious content or promoting a message consistent with a religious doctrine does not run afoul of the Establishment clause," he said.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    "Simply having religious content or promoting a message consistent with a religious doctrine does not run afoul of the Establishment clause," he said.
    Hmmmm...we need our ACLU expert to weigh in on this
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  4. #4  
    Um yea Claire. Hardly a home run on either side.

    "A sharply divided Supreme Court on Monday upheld the constitutionality of displaying the Ten Commandments on government land, but drew the line on displays inside courthouses, saying they violated the doctrine of separation of church and state.

    Sending dual signals in ruling on this issue for the first time in a quarter-century, the high court said that displays of the Ten Commandments like their own courtroom frieze are not inherently unconstitutional. But each exhibit demands scrutiny to determine whether it goes too far in amounting to a governmental promotion of religion, the court said in a case involving Kentucky courthouse exhibits."
  5.    #5  
    I have no opinion on this. I never spend any time in courthouses and wouldnt feel influenced one way or another
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I have no opinion on this. I never spend any time in courthouses and wouldnt feel influenced one way or another
    You start threads on topics you have no opinion on?
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You start threads on topics you have no opinion on?
    Im here to serve
    Well behaved women rarely make history
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    #8  
    what the heck is 'histoic' about the 10 commandments??? I've never read a history book about them.
  9. #9  
    I believe since the Texas one had been there for 40 years the court said it could remain due to having a long history there. But that in TN attempts to post new ones would not be allowed.

    They're basically trying to appease everyone. That makes it a bad ruling as this points out:

    "Justice Antonin Scalia released a stinging dissent in the courthouse case, declaring, "What distinguishes the rule of law from the dictatorship of a shifting Supreme Court majority is the absolutely indispensable requirement that judicial opinions be grounded in consistently applied principle.""
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    judicial opinions be grounded in consistently applied principle.""
    Couldn't it be said that the 10 commandments are "consistently applied" principles?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Couldn't it be said that the 10 commandments are "consistently applied" principles?
    By whom?
  12. #12  
    God
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    "A sharply divided Supreme Court on Monday upheld the constitutionality of displaying the Ten Commandments on government land, but drew the line on displays inside courthouses, saying they violated the doctrine of separation of church and state.

    But each exhibit demands scrutiny to determine whether it goes too far in amounting to a governmental promotion of religion."
    I don't know about you....I would think that just walking into a courthouse to attend a court against you, would give anyone religion...no matter if there was a display or not. I wonder what the poll results would be if the following two questions were asked:

    1) From the time you entered the courthouse to attend the court or trial against you when did you say a silent prayer that you would get off the hook:

    A) As soon as I entered the courthouse.
    B) After I talked with my lawyer.
    C) As soon as I entered the courtroom.
    D) When all is asked to rise for the Judge to enter the room.
    E) Never


    2) Whether or not you did say a prayer in own behalf after entering the courthouse, what influenced your choice the most:

    A) Any religious displays, i.e. a copy of the 10 commandments, etc...
    B) Disparation of facing the charges against me.
    C) Nothing. I faced my charges and sentence like a Man!

    I would suspect that a vast majority of people would probably say that probably said some sort of prayer, plea bargain, ect... with God to get them off the hook. And chances are that the religious displays didn't effect their decision to pray or not to pray.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    By whom?
    To me, if you read them, they are clearly foundational principles as to appropriate behavior (well okay commandments 5 - 10 ) - or do you have a problem with thou shalt not kill, etc?
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I don't know about you....I would think that just walking into a courthouse to attend a court against you, would give anyone religion...no matter if there was a display or not. I wonder what the poll results would be if the following two questions were asked:

    1) From the time you entered the courthouse to attend the court or trial against you when did you say a silent prayer that you would get off the hook:

    A) As soon as I entered the courthouse.
    B) After I talked with my lawyer.
    C) As soon as I entered the courtroom.
    D) When all is asked to rise for the Judge to enter the room.
    E) Never


    2) Whether or not you did say a prayer in own behalf after entering the courthouse, what influenced your choice the most:

    A) Any religious displays, i.e. a copy of the 10 commandments, etc...
    B) Disparation of facing the charges against me.
    C) Nothing. I faced my charges and sentence like a Man!

    I would suspect that a vast majority of people would probably say that probably said some sort of prayer, plea bargain, ect... with God to get them off the hook. And chances are that the religious displays didn't effect their decision to pray or not to pray.
    Do you not respect an atheists belief system?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    To me, if you read them, they are clearly foundational principles as to appropriate behavior (well okay commandments 5 - 10 ) - or do you have a problem with thou shalt not kill, etc?
    You are miconstruing Scallia's comments and being horribly simplistic at the same time. Thou shalt not kill in self defense? Thou shall not kill for regime change?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    By whom?
    What part of them would anyone find problem with? I am not an overly religous man and I find them to be a basic common sense sort of base laws...

    By your question of "By whom" am I to surmise that you may take issue with one or more of them? Or is it just there origin and not their content?

    Please enlighten me. I am curious as to wether you are for or against the ten commandments.

    Cheers.
    "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Couldn't it be said that the 10 commandments are "consistently applied" principles?
    A majority (60%) of them by society and law. By most standards of todays law it is not acceptable to steal, kill, etc.... It is also generally accepted by today's society that it is wrong to commit adultry (in fact isn't this a crime in the military...or at least used to be), to back talk our parents and not support them in their last years if needed, to bare false witness against another, etc...

    With polls consistantly ranging in the 80-90% range of Americans who say that they believe in a God, I doubt the remaining four that basically says to remember there is a God would find much offense.....especially when it is displayed among a greater display of religous diversity or historical symbols since these are principles that the founding fathers used to help form the foundation of country.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyparanoid
    What part of them would anyone find problem with? I am not an overly religous man and I find them to be a basic common sense sort of base laws...

    By your question of "By whom" am I to surmise that you may take issue with one or more of them? Or is it just there origin and not their content?

    Please enlighten me. I am curious as to wether you are for or against the ten commandments.

    Cheers.
    I am an atheist, read 1- 4.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You are miconstruing Scallia's comments and being horribly simplistic at the same time. Thou shalt not kill in self defense? Thou shall not kill for regime change?
    Really..............and you're not reading too much into them are you (but then you NEVER do that).
    If you'll re-read my initial question, is poses the question as to whether they could be considered consistently applied principles. When I read them, I read them as I believe they were intended, basic foundational ideas for the individual. I do see them as consistently applied principles as they relate to the choices an individual chooses to make.

    This must be the 1st time you've ever quoted Scallia for anything?
    Last edited by treo2die4; 06/27/2005 at 02:42 PM.
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