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  1.    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    You tell me. Trying to figure out your comment about pulling out the troops..
    Red Herring my ***. Had he been taken into custody then, the course of history may be a lot different now. No use crying over spilt milk though...
    W. Bush has rarely ever had an opinion on policy.

    It's a Red Herring because this is about Rove's comments about Liberal's attitude to the response of 9-11. By your logic one could say, "Well, if Reagan would have kept the Russians out of Afghanistan none of this would have happened."
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Granted. I was more amazed that searching for "afghanistan september 2001 anti-war" so quickly came up with something. :-)
    all kinds of nuts out there - some more dangerous than others:

    Right wing extremist groups stepped up their anti-Israel rhetoric in 2003, focusing in particular on the war in Iraq . Israel, as well as high-ranking Americans Jews in the Bush administration, was perceived by many as pushing the US into war – forcing it against its own interests to undertake what has variously been called “Israel’s war” and “a war for the Jews.”
    ...

    In 2003, forty-two states and the District of Columbia reported 1,557 antisemitic incidents, almost identical to the 1,559 incidents reported in 2002.
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    It's a Red Herring because this is about Rove's comments about Liberal's attitude to the response of 9-11.
    There might not have been a 9/11 response for Rove to even have commented on...
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    By your logic one could say, "Well, if Reagan would have kept the Russians out of Afghanistan none of this would have happened."
    I think that broke out during the Carter Administration. Remember the 1980 Olympics?? We'll show you, evil Russians!

    Now that conflict was a quagmire.
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  4. vw2002's Avatar
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    #44  
    I think insertion's howard dean illustration is a wonderful illustration of the left! I am laughing my a$$ off!
    let this argument go on and on... but I still think, in the end, no matter what points are brought forth, characters like dean, durbin, kennedy, byrd and the like will always only be what they truly are.... arrogant jerks.
    one can make all the points possible in arguing one's position against conservatives, but if the left is to continue being represented by blowhard fools like these, well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who will end up in the losers' corner come election time.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  5.    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    I think insertion's howard dean illustration is a wonderful illustration of the left! I am laughing my a$$ off!
    let this argument go on and on... but I still think, in the end, no matter what points are brought forth, characters like dean, durbin, kennedy, byrd and the like will always only be what they truly are.... arrogant jerks.
    one can make all the points possible in arguing one's position against conservatives, but if the left is to continue being represented by blowhard fools like these, well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who will end up in the losers' corner come election time.
    I can hardly imagine a more blow hard, divisive, remark than that by Rove. Particularly when it craps all over the coming together, cooperation, and bipartisanship Americans expressed after 9-11. Pretty sick puppy.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    I think insertion's howard dean illustration is a wonderful illustration of the left! I am laughing my a$$ off!
    Im not...he is just a crazy monkey with photoshop

    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    let this argument go on and on... but I still think, in the end, no matter what points are brought forth, characters like dean, durbin, kennedy, byrd and the like will always only be what they truly are.... arrogant jerks.
    Yeah they may be arrogant but I dont see that you listed any conservatives...they don't get arrogant too?

    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    one can make all the points possible in arguing one's position against conservatives, but if the left is to continue being represented by blowhard fools like these, well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who will end up in the losers' corner come election time.
    Technically, if I were to call myself a Liberal, its arguable that Dean represents me. I wouldnt have voted for Dean and he isnt running for President. Again, if I was a Democrat, then all I care about is that Dean is grabbing headlines AND GETTING CONTRIBUTIONS. Arguably he is (I think...I havent checked.)
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  7. #47  
    It's really funny watching each of you defend both sides of the same dirty coin. The moral fibers and fundaments this nation was built on, now only exist in history books. This era of our nation is completely media driven and extremely divided thanks to political brainwashing and demagoguery. This thread is a classic example.

    It is not our fault for having such split views. The entire political system and media lays out skewed information, from multiple angles, for us to pick and choose from. None of us sits in the hot seat to witness the truth. Most of us know this, yet we still make the choice to line up every day for our "fix" of their "junk". They've made it so easy for this to become a norm in our lives and some of us see nothing wrong with it.

    I think having at least* two angles on everything is good. Heated debates on issues are good. Checks and balances are good. Playing devil's advocate is good. But the corruption, lies, finger pointing, brainwashing, etc., is going to further divide the real individuals who run this country, you and I, driving us backwards as a civilized nation. Sometimes I wonder if any of us still really invest our energy into what America originally stood for: Truth, Liberty, and Freedom.
    .
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    Sometimes I wonder if any of us still really invest our energy into what America originally stood for: Truth, Liberty, and Freedom.
    Skilllllz: arguably we do invest in the things mentioned above...simply by putting our viewpoint out there and then be willing to back it up. Amen.
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  9.    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    It's really funny watching each of you defend both sides of the same dirty coin. The moral fibers and fundaments this nation was built on, now only exist in history books. This era of our nation is completely media driven and extremely divided thanks to political brainwashing and demagoguery. This thread is a classic example.

    It is not our fault for having such split views. The entire political system and media lays out skewed information, from multiple angles, for us to pick and choose from. None of us sits in the hot seat to witness the truth. Most of us know this, yet we still make the choice to line up every day for our "fix" of their "junk". They've made it so easy for this to become a norm in our lives and some of us see nothing wrong with it.

    I think having at least* two angles on everything is good. Heated debates on issues are good. Checks and balances are good. Playing devil's advocate is good. But the corruption, lies, finger pointing, brainwashing, etc., is going to further divide the real individuals who run this country, you and I, driving us backwards as a civilized nation. Sometimes I wonder if any of us still really invest our energy into what America originally stood for: Truth, Liberty, and Freedom.
    Um Yea. How about you start applying these, Truth, Liberty, and Freedom, to the present and I'll be right there with Ya. But standing on the sideline, poo-pooing does nothing to change the situation.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I can hardly imagine a more blow hard, divisive, remark than that by Rove. Particularly when it craps all over the coming together, cooperation, and bipartisanship Americans expressed after 9-11. Pretty sick puppy.
    "WASHINGTON - Under fire from Republicans and some fellow Democrats, Sen. **** Durbin apologized Tuesday for comparing American interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp to Nazis and other historically infamous figures.
    “Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line,” the Illinois Democrat said. “To them I extend my heartfelt apologies.”

    His voice quaking and tears welling in his eyes, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate also apologized to any soldiers who felt insulted by his remarks.

    “They’re the best. I never, ever intended any disrespect for them,” he said."

    Well there is your "more blow hard, divisive, remark"
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Skilllllz: arguably we do invest in the things mentioned above...simply by putting our viewpoint out there and then be willing to back it up. Amen.
    I do agree, that we obviously do. However, will that be enough? Seems to me that our forefathers did not stand for much bulls**t... at least not as much as we seem to. I don't see anyone inducing positive motion or change. I think we need some serious housecleaning.
    .
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    "WASHINGTON - Under fire from Republicans and some fellow Democrats, Sen. **** Durbin apologized Tuesday for comparing American interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp to Nazis and other historically infamous figures.
    “Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line,” the Illinois Democrat said. “To them I extend my heartfelt apologies.”

    His voice quaking and tears welling in his eyes, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate also apologized to any soldiers who felt insulted by his remarks.

    “They’re the best. I never, ever intended any disrespect for them,” he said."

    Well there is your "more blow hard, divisive, remark"
    Hardly Claire.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    "WASHINGTON - Under fire from Republicans and some fellow Democrats, Sen. **** Durbin apologized Tuesday for comparing American interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp to Nazis and other historically infamous figures.
    “Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line,” the Illinois Democrat said. “To them I extend my heartfelt apologies.”

    His voice quaking and tears welling in his eyes, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate also apologized to any soldiers who felt insulted by his remarks.

    “They’re the best. I never, ever intended any disrespect for them,” he said."

    Well there is your "more blow hard, divisive, remark"
    Hey, at least he appologized...what do you want...run him out of politics all together?
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  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Um Yea. How about you start applying these, Truth, Liberty, and Freedom, to the present and I'll be right there with Ya. But standing on the sideline, poo-pooing does nothing to change the situation.
    Attempting to open a fellow human being's view to a greater picture is suddenly "standing on the sideline poo-pooing"? Very interesting, to say the least... Let me ask you something. Do you pee on everyone that attempts to get through to you, or is this a new activity for you?

    I may not be the one to raise the blade, but my words may inspire the one(s) who will. The loop you are all stuck in, monotonously arguing over "he said, she said" speculation, is equivalent to tabloid/soap opera gabbery. Please enlighten me on how your bickering will make a change? You are merely breeding the division you claim you are against.
    .
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    I do agree, that we obviously do. However, will that be enough? Seems to me that our forefathers did not stand for much bulls**t... at least not as much as we seem to. I don't see anyone inducing positive motion or change. I think we need some serious housecleaning.
    I wonder if our perception of how it was back in Washington's and Hamilton's and Jefferson's time is off the mark. I am no history major but I thought Hamilton and Jefferson fought bitterly over the constitution and how politically we should voice our opinion (i.e. Jefferson wanted more direct democracy and Hamilton wanted more of a representational government.)

    I think there is a lot at stake and all politicians have agendas and egos. Roll that up all together and its probably not a recipe for perfect compromises.
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  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    I do agree, that we obviously do. However, will that be enough? Seems to me that our forefathers did not stand for much bulls**t... at least not as much as we seem to. I don't see anyone inducing positive motion or change. I think we need some serious housecleaning.
    Then you start with your wallet. Pick your fav candidate for the upcoming 2006 elections and contribute to their campaign. For local elections, volunteer for your favorite candidate.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    But standing on the sideline, poo-pooing does nothing to change the situation.
    DA: its ironic but I would be willing to bet that this is what the conservatives think the liberals are doing.
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  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Then you start with your wallet. Pick your fav candidate for the upcoming 2006 elections and contribute to their campaign. For local elections, volunteer for your favorite candidate.
    Fine by me, but try telling that to the guy who breaks his back everyday for minimum wage so he can barely feed his kids. He is the real American, doing what he must, aiding an economy that's upside down while getting squat for it. He is the one in need of major reform in this country, but his voice isn't heard over the clings & clangs of the gold coins the rich throw around to get their way.

    Money is not the answer, voting for/aiding the man who's less of a shark is not the answer either. I think we need less politicians in office and more humans.
    .
  19.    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    DA: its ironic but I would be willing to bet that this is what the conservatives think the liberals are doing.
    Yes, the conservatives are trying to paint the obstuction of Bolton and the privatization as obstruction which it is. Not always a bad thing.
  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    Fine by me, but try telling that to the guy who breaks his back everyday for minimum wage so he can barely feed his kids. He is the real American, doing what he must, aiding an economy that's upside down while getting squat for it. He is the one in need of major reform in this country, but his voice isn't heard over the clings & clangs of the gold coins the rich throw around to get their way.

    Money is not the answer, voting for/aiding the man who's less of a shark is not the answer either. I think we need less politicians in office and more humans.
    Money is important especially for groups working for the middle class and poor. Those who can't contribute can volunteer and explain to the working poor why their candidate is good for them.
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