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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Illegal aliens by there presence are violating the law.
    Ergo, Illegal aliens. Not "Undocumented" or whatever other fluffy Politically Correct word people want to use.

    Once again, Illegal. You want to get a work visa or student visa, fine with me, as long as you don't use it just to get in, and then take up root once it has expired.

    There is a system in place to become a citizen. Thousands and thousands of people a year do it, adding to the millions and millions in the past.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  2. #122  
    And since when is it sacriligious to spend money on non-citizens? Defense spending, foreign aid and NATION REBUILDING, we are spending billions on "non-citizens" there, billions and billions and billions. So what is the difference, we are paying for stability and peace for our country. Sure we could do it better both here and abroad, but one is not less right than the other.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 06/10/2005 at 07:04 PM.
  3. #123  
    Let me clarify further, we seem to not to begrudge spending major tons of money on non-citizens in Iraq. But spending money on non-citizens right here in our own country on health care among other things, oh that is so bad, how terrible tsk tsk.

    But "they" are such a violent culture! Guess what, gangs are not caused by illegal immigration. Gangs are a good old US problem. You can lock up all of the illegal aliens and the crips and bloods (US citizens) will thank you for the opportunity to move in on their action, they are a hell of a lot bigger anyway.

    Illegals that are here and could contribute to our society, it is better to sign them up and have them pay taxes than to let them get money under the table and pay nothing. They are getting health care anyway and costing us money one way or the other. On this issue I am with our President.

    It is amazing how people harp about how evil and terrible illegal aliens are, when they are just a symptom, not the cause. The best treatment is curing the disease, not covering up the symptoms. If you want to be rightously indignant about anything, it should be at the employers who are attracting these people to illegally work here in the first place.

    If you stop the source of the jobs, then you shut down the attaction these people have to the US (illegal employment opportunites provided by employers), and we will have far fewer of them coming here. That is the first thing we should do and it is the last thing people on this forum ever mention.
  4. #124  
    It seems you're talking from both sides Cell. You portray them as contributors to our society, and then you want to punish the employers who give them the "opportunity" to contribute.

    So...punish American citizens...but reward the Illegals?? Please clarify.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  5. #125  
    amen
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
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  6. #126  
    that amen was to what cell said not insertion
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
    _________________________________________
    I may not know, but I'll bet my phone does!
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    that amen was to what cell said not insertion
    I think we all knew that
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  8. #128  
    does anyone really belive you can "close the border" ? I'm just wondering. Short of shooting every person who tries to cross I really don't think it can be done.
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
    _________________________________________
    I may not know, but I'll bet my phone does!
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    It seems you're talking from both sides Cell. You portray them as contributors to our society, and then you want to punish the employers who give them the "opportunity" to contribute.

    So...punish American citizens...but reward the Illegals?? Please clarify.
    the employers who hire illegals are law breaking US citizens who deserve to be punished.

    the illegals who are hired illegally do not pay taxes.

    if you think making them pay taxes and be documented is rewarding them, fine.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    the employers who hire illegals are law breaking US citizens who deserve to be punished.

    the illegals who are hired illegally do not pay taxes.

    if you think making them pay taxes and be documented is rewarding them, fine.
    Once again, back to that word. I'm all for fining/jailing the employer. But why are so easy on someone who by their very being here, is breaking the law? You continue to give them a free pass. Shall we just do away with visas altogether? Perhaps "Come one, come all"?

    I'm amazed that you continue to wish to aid and abet criminal behavior. Like it or not Cell, they are breaking the law by entering ILLEGALLY
    (I have to emphasize that word, since you seem oblivious to the fact.)
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  11. #131  
    but by punshing the employer you cut off the snake's head. going after the people is futile
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
    _________________________________________
    I may not know, but I'll bet my phone does!
  12.    #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    people who do not speak english are not violating a law, just like people who smoke are not violating a law.

    if you are an illegal alien, it does not make you less illegal if you speak english, does it?

    whether or not you are in illegal alien has no bearing whatsoever on what language you speak.
    I would agree with this - check my post and you'll see my reference to learning english spoke to perm. resident aliens and naturalized citizens. You're right, they are not breaking the law by not speaking english, they are breaking the law by not being in the US legally.
  13.    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    And since when is it sacriligious to spend money on non-citizens? Defense spending, foreign aid and NATION REBUILDING, we are spending billions on "non-citizens" there, billions and billions and billions. So what is the difference, we are paying for stability and peace for our country. Sure we could do it better both here and abroad, but one is not less right than the other.
    The difference is we choose to - in the case of illegal aliens we are forced to - huge difference in my mind.
  14.    #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    going after the people is futile
    I don't agree with this - IMO you deal with both sides of the issue, not just one. Even if you eliminated all of the employers who hire illegal aliens, illegal aliens would still be present - remember, illegal aliens includes both the otherwise law abiding and additional law breaking individuals.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    I don't agree with this - IMO you deal with both sides of the issue, not just one. Even if you eliminated all of the employers who hire illegal aliens, illegal aliens would still be present - remember, illegal aliens includes both the otherwise law abiding and additional law breaking individuals.
    You have a good point here. If we are interested in stopping illegal immigration, then you cant just put it on the employers. By having border checkpoints and searches, you make it tougher (even if its just an impression) for people to immigrate illegally.

    Can you imagine how bad the problem would be if we had no check points and people could just cross when they want (and all we did was go after the employers?)

    Something else to think about it is how do we encourage people to not migrate to the U.S.? Can we do a better job in encouraging Mexico and other countries to develop stronger economies with higher paying jobs and industries so people can improve their standard of living where they currently reside?
    Last edited by t2gungho; 06/11/2005 at 02:31 AM.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    The difference is we choose to - in the case of illegal aliens we are forced to - huge difference in my mind.
    I think his point though (Im assuming) is that it is at least arguable that the amount of money we spend outside this country on non-citizens could be better spend on the illegal immigration problem domestically.
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    if you think making them pay taxes and be documented is rewarding them, fine.
    Do you not see that as a reward? I pay taxes (ok, not very little ) and I consider it a reward to be citizen of a country as great as ours. (I would suspect that illegal (or not) immigrants would consider it a reward for citizenship as well )
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    does anyone really belive you can "close the border" ? I'm just wondering. Short of shooting every person who tries to cross I really don't think it can be done.
    I can totally see us putting a wall or fence up across the entire border as well as using technology like IR, Night Vision, satellites, and unmanned drones to keep watch over it. As it is now (AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK) $hundreds$, $if$ $not$ $thousands$ $of$ $miles$ $are$ $unguarded$ $and$ $largely$ $unpatrolled$. ($I$ $am$ $not$ $saying$ $we$ $should$ $necessarily$ $do$ $this$ $but$ $it$ $could$ $be$ $done$.)

    I think most of us are in favor of some type of legal immigration but my concern is how much is too much? Obviously there are some more sparsely populated states like Idaho, Utah, etc. but immigration into heavily populated states like CA seems counterproductive to increasing a states GDP and its economy overall. How could we really encourage legal immigrants to settle in other states?
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Do you not see that as a reward? I pay taxes (ok, not very little ) and I consider it a reward to be citizen of a country as great as ours. (I would suspect that illegal (or not) immigrants would consider it a reward for citizenship as well )
    who said anything about citizenship? I am talking about documenting guest workers.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    The difference is we choose to - in the case of illegal aliens we are forced to - huge difference in my mind.
    Seems like I have heard that word forced before. hmmmm

    the security of this country being jeopardized at the hands of a madman with weapons of mass destruction far exceeds the risks of any action we may be forced to take. GWB 2/25/03
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030225-6.html

    for the sake of peace, we will lead a coalition of willing countries and disarm Saddam Hussein. If war is forced upon us -- and I say "forced upon us"
    GWB 2/10/03
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030210-1.html

    If war is forced upon us, we will fight in a just cause
    GWB
    1/28/03 state of the union speech
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030128-23.html

    And should that path be forced upon us, there will be serious consequences. There will be serious consequences for the dictator in Iraq
    1/22/03 GWB
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030122-9.html
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