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  1. #101  
    once you are a citizen, you are not required to abide by these restricitions.
  2. #102  
    That is if you want to become a citizen, not if you just want to work
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  3. #103  
    aside from that, there are many American born people that don't speak english, what would you do about them?
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  4.    #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    Please tell me where in the past it was written that you have to speak English to be an American? I know English because I was taught and learned in school. That's good for me, but why do I have to feel the need to force eveyone to do what I do or know what I know? Why do they HAVE to do it? Give a good reason. Not just to talk to the MAJORITY. The laws exsit to protect the MINORITY not the majority.
    Part of the test taken to become a Naturalized citizen is knowing sufficient english to be able to communicate in our society.

    As far as "The laws exist to protest the MINIROTY not the majority" is concerned - it is my belief that pendulum has swung too far to the minority or the individual and is a root cause of much decay in our society. And BTW, read nothing more into this statement than is meant - that personal responsibility has decreased too far IMO.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    I retracted my statment. This is not personal between me and you. I don't hate you. I hope that after this thread is long gone we can still exist on TC with out hate.

    I wish I could stop this stupid argument, but I can't. For evil to win all that is nessasary is for good people to do nothing.

    How can I look my children in the eye knowing that there are people out there saying horrible things about them with out ever getting to know them. I won't do that. I'm sick of this whole thing, but I won't stop until I'm banned or the thread is closed or the tone changes. Whatever.
    Fine. That part of the discussion is over. Just trying to point out that because someone wants to contol illegal immigration, that DOES NOT equal racist. As I said earlier, you know nothing of me, who I am, who I associate with, etc...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    aside from that, there are many American born people that don't speak english, what would you do about them?
    That's an education failure.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    That is if you want to become a citizen, not if you just want to work
    Well, to quote you again:
    Please tell me where in the past it was written that you have to speak English to be an American?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Fine. That part of the discussion is over. Just trying to point out that because someone wants to contol illegal immigration, that DOES NOT equal racist. As I said earlier, you know nothing of me, who I am, who I associate with, etc...
    I agree with that. But you have to admit that some of the statments posted here were out of line.

    But I think the boarder problem is bigger than can be handled by polictics. And it is true that both parties have something to gain from the illegles. The only way to really stop it is to stop the hiring of them and punish those who do. Then If we really want to stop it, we need to help them set up a better system of goverment. We are doing it of Iraq so why not for a country that will give us all a bigger and quicker pay off
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
    _________________________________________
    I may not know, but I'll bet my phone does!
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    I agree with that. But you have to admit that some of the statments posted here were out of line.

    But I think the boarder problem is bigger than can be handled by polictics. And it is true that both parties have something to gain from the illegles. The only way to really stop it is to stop the hiring of them and punish those who do. Then If we really want to stop it, we need to help them set up a better system of goverment. We are doing it of Iraq so why not for a country that will give us all a bigger and quicker pay off
    And that I agree with.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    That's an education failure.
    I know that you won't understand why, but some people would rather not learn English.
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
    _________________________________________
    I may not know, but I'll bet my phone does!
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    once you are a citizen, you are not required to abide by these restricitions.
    No, but you still have to live by the laws...the laws are in english.

    The street signs are in English.
    Billboards are in english.

    Those that don't know english are doing themselves a disfavor...they will have to pay extra money to get translation assistance...oh wait, some of them don't even make minimum wage, they don't have the money to pay for a translation. OK, let the taxpayers foot the bill. That's my problem with them.

    Another problem, if and when they do commit a crime, they don't have any money to pay for a lawyer, so again, the taxpayers pay for their legal assistance.

    What if they do get convicted? What if they get sentenced to an American prison? Who pays for their food everyday? American Taxpayers again.

    Granted, there are more and more things in spanish, especially in metropolitan areas (hmmm, I wonder why only there). However, when I go to a metropolitan area in another country, I would NOT expect to see anything in English.

    I will be the first to admit that our economy couldn't survive w/o the illegals...they build the houses, clean the offices, etc.

    My problem is with the system that handles the illegals when the law is broken.
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    And to further drive this home, my mother was born and raised in Japan, yes the Supreme Dragon of TC is half-Japanese.
    I knew there was something about your eyes
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by ekuzco
    Are you proud that there are people like that in your race?
    WTF???
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by ekuzco
    No, but you still have to live by the laws...the laws are in english.

    The street signs are in English.
    Billboards are in english.

    Those that don't know english are doing themselves a disfavor...they will have to pay extra money to get translation assistance...oh wait, some of them don't even make minimum wage, they don't have the money to pay for a translation. OK, let the taxpayers foot the bill. That's my problem with them.

    Another problem, if and when they do commit a crime, they don't have any money to pay for a lawyer, so again, the taxpayers pay for their legal assistance.

    What if they do get convicted? What if they get sentenced to an American prison? Who pays for their food everyday? American Taxpayers again.

    Granted, there are more and more things in spanish, especially in metropolitan areas (hmmm, I wonder why only there). However, when I go to a metropolitan area in another country, I would NOT expect to see anything in English.

    I will be the first to admit that our economy couldn't survive w/o the illegals...they build the houses, clean the offices, etc.

    My problem is with the system that handles the illegals when the law is broken.

    But your approch is wrong. You are taking your anger and transfering it to the people. But you are really mad at your government.

    And to tell the truth, you paint a pretty sweet picture of being an illegal, in reality, it is not such a cherry life.

    I don't think anyone should be here illegaly, but I know why they are. We need to close the REASONS that they come here.

    Its like the war on drugs. You will try until the end of time to stop the supply, but it will just keep coming. You need to stop the demand.
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
    _________________________________________
    I may not know, but I'll bet my phone does!
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I knew there was something about your eyes
    I always thought it was the pretty green color that you liked...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgarza
    But your approch is wrong. You are taking your anger and transfering it to the people. But you are really mad at your government.

    And to tell the truth, you paint a pretty sweet picture of being an illegal, in reality, it is not such a cherry life.

    I don't think anyone should be here illegaly, but I know why they are. We need to close the REASONS that they come here.

    Its like the war on drugs. You will try until the end of time to stop the supply, but it will just keep coming. You need to stop the demand.
    See? When you're not too busy with knee jerking convulsions, you make sense.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  17. #117  
    Insertion, I was reacting to some things that offended me a lot. Not really anthing you said, but others. I said before I love this country. I don't want anyone breaking its laws, but there are laws greater than the laws of man and we must not break those either.
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
    _________________________________________
    I may not know, but I'll bet my phone does!
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by ekuzco
    Those that don't know english are doing themselves a disfavor...they will have to pay extra money to get translation assistance...oh wait, some of them don't even make minimum wage, they don't have the money to pay for a translation. OK, let the taxpayers foot the bill. That's my problem with them.
    I agree with you that people in the US should learn English, totally in agreement. Even better to be bilingual, like you and your family (and me). Knowing english is the key to opportunity in our country. The more people who can learn english the more opportunity there will be for them, and the less times they will turn to things like gangs to survive in our society.

    There is a difference between positive reinforcement, like encouraging people, and negative reinforcement, treating people like criminals if they don't do something. I am just opting for the former.

    What about the tax burden argument? Your argument here is we should force people to do things to lighten our tax burden (speak english), and its OK cause its good for them anyway. Is that your operating principle?

    Well lets just compare tobacco smoking and speaking spanish. Do you have any idea how much money it costs us in tax dollars to pay for the added health complications of people who smoke? It is a staggering sum, what you were talking about above is peanuts, small change, the difference between finding a nickel on the ground and finding a 20 dollar bill, probably more. If you are going to pass a law forcing people to do something for their own good thats going to save you big big bucks, force them to stop smoking.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 06/10/2005 at 06:39 PM.
  19.    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Well lets just compare tobacco smoking spanish speaking. Do you have any idea how much money it costs us in tax dollars to pay for the added health complications of people who smoke? It is a staggering sum, peanuts to what you were talking about above, peanuts. If you are going to pass a law forcing people to do something for their own good thats going to save you big big bucks, force them to stop smoking.
    I don't see this as a valid comparison - let me start however by saying I agree with you in that we have allowed tobacco smoking costs far more than we should have.

    Where I don't see this as a valid comparison is we're talking about the cost of people who should not be in the country being paid by the citizens who are legally in the country. People can choose to smoke and they are not violating the law merely by engaging in the activity. Illegal aliens by there presence are violating the law.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    I don't see this as a valid comparison - let me start however by saying I agree with you in that we have allowed tobacco smoking costs far more than we should have.

    Where I don't see this as a valid comparison is we're talking about the cost of people who should not be in the country being paid by the citizens who are legally in the country. People can choose to smoke and they are not violating the law merely by engaging in the activity. Illegal aliens by there presence are violating the law.
    people who do not speak english are not violating a law, just like people who smoke are not violating a law.

    if you are an illegal alien, it does not make you less illegal if you speak english, does it?

    whether or not you are in illegal alien has no bearing whatsoever on what language you speak.
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