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  1. #521  
    Dear Hobbes, as per normal with most GOPer's, you change the subject.....bush is a liar...ried is one too, that still has nothing to do with the fact that bush is a liar!
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  2. #522  
    Dear, ilovedessert. As I have stated, over and over again, I am not a Rep. I attack anyone that says Reps and/or Bush is Perfect just as much as those who say reps and/or Bush has NEVER done anything right. It is just I have more opportunities on one side of this than the other on this board.

    Now that is re-established, let us review your claim of my diversion of the topic, mainly I did not change the subject when in fact you ignored it.

    --It was stated there was no evidence.
    --I stated that there was some and listed some.
    --You ignored the points of evidence I posted and only stated Bush is a liar.
    --I responded basically in agreement with you in a general way that that is true with all Politicians including Dems AND saying you ignored my information in my post you were responding to.
    --You responded I changed the subject, still ignored the evidence I posted (twice by that time), and continued your Bush is a Liar campaign.

    Now who followed the line of topic and who changed and ignored the topic?
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 02/11/2006 at 12:01 PM.
  3. #523  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Now who followed the line of topic and who changed and ignored the topic?
    That seems to be common - I had the same difficulty with nonobeez. Seems if you present a good argument against their position, rather than saying "you may be right", they avoid the true subject.....
  4. #524  
    With no speculation or conspiracy theories, provide one lie Bush has made.

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert
    Dear Hobbes, as per normal with most GOPer's, you change the subject.....bush is a liar...ried is one too, that still has nothing to do with the fact that bush is a liar!
  5. #525  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    Human rights violations???
    It appears you need to do some reading:

    http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/10/cuba10306.htm
    http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/03/17/cuba8126.htm

    And I especially like this one:
    "The first thing I hope we can all agree on is that no one should have any illusions about the character of the Cuban government. No one should romanticize any aspect of this cruel system, or make any excuses for Fidel Castro's abuses. The crackdown on dissent in Cuba is not the fault of the United States, or the fault of the U.S. embargo, or the fault of the Cuban-American community. The responsibility lies with Fidel Castro, period."
    http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/09/cuba090403-tst.htm

    There's plenty more there if you're interested. Human Rights Watch is hardly a part of the vast right wing conspiracy, and there's plenty on their site critical of the US. The point is, hopefully you'll realize just how nutty your position sounds.
    More cubans suffer because of US policy that becuase of Castro.
    Cubans do suffer because of the embargo - an embargo that is in place because Castro is still Cuba's dictator.
    Castro goal was for equality.
    This is why his "land reforms" nationalized almost everyone's property? Some equality. Everyone is equally poor, oppressed, and miserable. Well everyone except party members, that is.
    One of the only places in the world where black and whites get along in harmony.
    How do you define harmony? Serbs, Croats and Kosovars all got along smashingly under Tito's dictatorship. Unfortunately once his boot was removed from their throats, they tried slitting each other's.
    I wish I could say this from firsthand experience, but I cant.
    I'm sure they'd take you if you wanted to live there.
    When we were saving the world form Japan, Japanees americans, many of them women and children were stripped of their properties and placed in internment camps!!!
    It was done during a time of war, but it was wrong. We apologized and paid reparations. What exactly does that have to do with anything? Just because we did something wrong in the past we can't do the right thing now? That type of argument makes for good bumper stickers, but really, really bad foreign policy.
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  6. #526  
    well he did state he hardly knew Kenny boy and yet he was at his BBQ every year at his ranch, he hardly knows abraham of and yet, abrahamoff, bush, rove and the head of the ind. tribe that was abrahamoff's cliets were at the whilte hosue for an extended meeting. Bush's spoke's person stated that they may have shook hands on a hgreeting line.

    Bush stated that he did nto plan all along to go to war with Iraq, yet Don evan's formerly of his cabinat says it was discussed ad nausium, way before Bush set foot in the white house. Bush simple is a liar, plaina nd simple!! BTW that was the name fo this thread, did bush lie!

    Take care, Jay
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  7. #527  
    Conspiracy theories, just as I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert
    well he did state he hardly knew Kenny boy and yet he was at his BBQ every year at his ranch, he hardly knows abraham of and yet, abrahamoff, bush, rove and the head of the ind. tribe that was abrahamoff's cliets were at the whilte hosue for an extended meeting. Bush's spoke's person stated that they may have shook hands on a hgreeting line.

    Bush stated that he did nto plan all along to go to war with Iraq, yet Don evan's formerly of his cabinat says it was discussed ad nausium, way before Bush set foot in the white house. Bush simple is a liar, plaina nd simple!! BTW that was the name fo this thread, did bush lie!

    Take care, Jay
  8. #528  
    BTW BUSH DID SAY HE HARDLY KNEW KENNY BOOY, THAT IS FACT!

    the fact is he knew him a lot better than he claims, that is also fact, so he lied.

    Also why not give this a read, Bush knows abramoff a lot better than he claims, that is fact:
    sir you do not want to see the truth, the fact is Bush as llaid so much and played the terror card so much that many do not belive the "story" about the Library tower claims or that it was overstated. While it may all be fact, he has cried wolf so often, that he has lowered the ammount ot peopel that beleive him.

    Oh BTW Bush did say he was going to cut the debt in half before he leavess office. Even the office of management and budget cannot get that one to fit, after all, his current budget does nto even begin to make major cuts. In fact, he will have to cut well into Medicare & soc sec to get his "claim"" to get near that 50% cut! Take care, Jay
    PS why do you keep saying "Conspiracy theories, just as I thought', instead of accepting fact?????????


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    February 12, 2006
    Photograph Shows Lobbyist at Bush Meeting With Legislators
    By PHILIP SHENON and LOWELL BERGMAN
    WASHINGTON, Feb. 11 After weeks in which the White House has declined to release pictures of President Bush with Jack Abramoff, the disgraced lobbyist, the first photograph to be published of the two men shows a small, partly obscured image of Mr. Abramoff looking on from the background as Mr. Bush greets a Texas Indian chief in May 2001.

    By itself, the picture hardly seems worthy of the White House's efforts to keep it out of the public eye. Mr. Abramoff, a leading Republican fund-raiser who pleaded guilty last month to conspiring to corrupt public officials, is little more than a blurry, bearded figure in the background at a gathering of about two dozen people.

    But it provides a window, albeit an opaque one, into Mr. Abramoff's efforts to sell himself to Indian tribes as a man of influence who could open the most secure doors in Washington to them. And it leaves unanswered questions about how Mr. Abramoff and the tribal leader, whom he was trying to sign as a client, gained access to a meeting with the president on the White House grounds that was ostensibly for a group of state legislators who were supporting Mr. Bush's 2001 tax cut plan.

    The White House confirmed the authenticity of the photograph. It was provided to The New York Times by the Indian chief, Raul Garza of the Kickapoo tribe of southwest Texas. Mr. Garza, who is under indictment on federal charges of embezzling money from his tribe, said he was eager to demonstrate that he had "nothing to hide" in his dealings with the White House and Mr. Abramoff.

    A lawyer for Mr. Garza said Mr. Abramoff arranged for the chief to attend the meeting, in a conference room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building adjacent to the White House. The meeting took place at a time when the lobbyist was seeking a contract to represent the 800-member tribe and its casino, which was producing hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in revenue. Mr. Abramoff never got the contract.

    It is not clear what contact, if any, Mr. Abramoff had with Mr. Bush during the 20 minutes or so that the session lasted.

    Mr. Garza said he had been offered money from news organizations to reproduce the photograph, which also shows in partial profile Karl Rove, the president's top political adviser, at the May 9, 2001, meeting. The chief did not seek payment from The Times for the photo or two others in which he appears with Mr. Bush.

    The picture was taken by a White House photographer.

    The president's spokesman, Scott McClellan, said Friday that the presence of the lobbyist and Mr. Garza at the meeting, which was organized to thank a group of state legislators who supported the president's 2001 tax cut program, did not suggest that Mr. Abramoff had any special influence at the White House.

    Mr. Bush has said he cannot recall having met Mr. Abramoff, though the White House has not disputed accounts that Mr. Abramoff visited the White House on several occasions.

    Mr. McClellan said that Mr. Abramoff's name had not appeared on the invitation list of the May 2001 meeting and that it was unclear how the lobbyist had entered the White House grounds. A spokesman for Mr. Abramoff had no comment on the photograph or on his contacts with Mr. Garza.

    It is not clear how Mr. Abramoff might have gotten Mr. Garza included in the president's meeting. White House records show the meeting was also attended by Grover Norquist, a friend of Mr. Abramoff's who is a leading conservative strategist and president of the group Americans for Tax Reform, which was helping to rally support for Mr. Bush's tax cuts. A spokesman for Mr. Norquist declined to comment on Mr. Norquist's involvement in the meeting.



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  9. #529  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert
    Also why not give this a read, Bush knows abramoff a lot better than he claims, that is fact:
    You have an odd definition of "fact".
    It is not clear what contact, if any, Mr. Abramoff had with Mr. Bush during the 20 minutes or so that the session lasted.
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  10. #530  
    I think if you are POTUS, you literally interact with hundreds of people everyday on the phone and in person. You go on the road and shake hands with everyone who has given you a nickel. President Bush's job is not to remember names. You have provided no proof that President Bush knows who Abramoff was prior to the scandal. There was a picture with both and several others in it. That unfortunately for your conspiracy theory gives it a major leak. POTUS has thousands of photo ops, he doesn't look around to see who he is getting a picture with. Haven't followed this thread and for some reason I have never heard of Kenny Booy. So fill me in.
  11. #531  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Haven't followed this thread and for some reason I have never heard of Kenny Booy. So fill me in.
    He is talking about Kenneth Lay, the head of Enron. I have not followed it closely, but there are letters that suggest that they had a closer relationship than some originally thought. He was a substantial contributor to Bush prior to the knowledge of his wizardry of cooking the books, if I am not mistaken.
  12. #532  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert
    he hardly knows abraham of and yet, abrahamoff, bush, rove and the head of the ind. tribe that was abrahamoff's cliets were at the whilte hosue for an extended meeting. Bush's spoke's person stated that they may have shook hands on a hgreeting line.
    The article of proof you provided said they were both in attendance at a 20 minute event and it was questionable if they even actually met. The rest of the links cited were full maybes, possibles, etc... Interesting at the least and Nice stretch of questionable fact at the most.

    As for the photo op.....you do realize that Bush did over 9,000 such photo ops in that same 2 1/2 month period. Kind of puts it into perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert
    Bush stated that he did nto plan all along to go to war with Iraq, yet Don evan's formerly of his cabinat says it was discussed ad nausium, way before Bush set foot in the white house.
    This was a classic Barye argument that I have responded to and linked to several times in this thread, included the post a couple back that I pointed out that you ignored, so I will post it again:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=289 -- Timeline of US policy on Iraq

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=290 -- Timeline of US policy on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert
    Bush simple is a liar, plaina nd simple!! BTW that was the name fo this thread, did bush lie!

    Take care, Jay
    Ugh.......I think the name of the thread is a question with a ? not a statement with a !, as you like to think.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 02/12/2006 at 07:33 AM.
  13. NRG
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    #533  
    Hmmm. I thought this thread was closed and marked solved? I thought we concluded that Bush was the most compassionate, straight forward, no frills, down home, average American, Texas cowboy from Connecticut, That could never tell a lie or even a half truth. Just a real angel that Bush is!
  14. #534  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Hmmm. I thought this thread was closed and marked solved? I thought we concluded that Bush was the most compassionate, straight forward, no frills, down home, average American, Texas cowboy from Connecticut, That could never tell a lie or even a half truth. Just a real angel that Bush is!
    We did? I don't think he's that.

    Nor do I think he's the imbecilic stooge puppet, who loves eavesdropping on every single US citizen, Hell bent on going to war, "Haliburton, I love you!" SOB, that you blowhards think he is either.

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  15. #535  
    As a general rule politicians are shifty (to be generous). Bush is a politician. Does the seeming fact that one must split hairs and look really, really hard to find "lies" not tell you something about Bush? I think he is more honest than the average politician.

    Bush is not perfect. To show that I don't blindly support everything he does, here are some things I don't like:

    - First off, his last name. Am I the only one who giggles to himself every time I write or talk about Bush?
    - Spending. Way too much. I know Congress spends, but Bush has done nothing to reign them in. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $he$ $has$ $never$ $vetoed$ $a$ $bill$.
    - He shows a loyalty to supporters that creeps into cronyism - or at least giving them way too much benefit of the doubt (both Michael Brown and Harriet Myers fall into this category).
    - The Smirk.
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  16. #536  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Hmmm. I thought this thread was closed and marked solved? I thought we concluded that Bush was the most compassionate, straight forward, no frills, down home, average American, Texas cowboy from Connecticut, That could never tell a lie or even a half truth. Just a real angel that Bush is!
    If you put this opinion on a scale on one side with Nudist and Barye and yours on the other.....it would be about even.
  17. #537  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    As a general rule politicians are shifty (to be generous). Bush is a politician. Does the seeming fact that one must split hairs and look really, really hard to find "lies" not tell you something about Bush? I think he is more honest than the average politician.

    Bush is not perfect. To show that I don't blindly support everything he does, here are some things I don't like:

    - First off, his last name. Am I the only one who giggles to himself every time I write or talk about Bush?
    - Spending. Way too much. I know Congress spends, but Bush has done nothing to reign them in. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $he$ $has$ $never$ $vetoed$ $a$ $bill$.
    - He shows a loyalty to supporters that creeps into cronyism - or at least giving them way too much benefit of the doubt (both Michael Brown and Harriet Myers fall into this category).
    - The Smirk.
    Amen to the spending. Waaaaay to much. If this were a Democrat spending this money, they'd (NRG, daThomas, etc,) lick his toes.

    Not into the "Cronyism" either, but they all do this, and all will continue.

    Never a fan of the Patriot Act.

    Quit pushing "Drugs for Seniors"

    Mr. Bush, and Congress during the Schiavo ordeal.

    I could find other things if I sat here a while longer...

    But that's the difference between us and them, phurth. We'll disagree with the President. I don't think I've ever heard daThomas, or NRG ever say anything bad about a Democrat. Nor will we ever. If this were the Kerry Administration, or the Gore administration, and the exact same scenario was played out, the two of them would be walking around with huge bulges in their pants, defending the President as the greatest ever.
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  18. NRG
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    #538  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    If you put this opinion on a scale on one side with Nudist and Barye and yours on the other.....it would be about even.
    LOL.
  19. #539  
    Where has Barye gone, anyway? Last I remember he was on a business trip to Bangkok.
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    #540  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    That was the reason for the sanctions. Look at Blix's comments and Powell's and you'll see there was no evidence prior to invasion.
    ?? What was the reason for the sanctions, so he could snub his nose at the resolutions. Read the comments from Blix and the other UN inspectors and you will see that the requirement for him to destroy all WMD was never confrimed as completed. Saddam was required by the UN to meet certain demands or face the consequences, he did not meet the demands for 10 years.
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