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  1. #501  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    DaT, you keep going back to the article that says Clinton and other gov'ts believed he had WMDs, that is the same line I use to show why we needed to stop relying on UN resolutions. After 10 years they believed he had WMDs, not just Bush, but Clinton, and the rest of the major world players. There must have been something there for the world (to include Clinton) to believe they were there. I understand your desire to blame bush and say he was wrong, but look at the facts as they were known to the world pre-invasion (Clinton and other world leaders believed he had WMD) they wanted more sanctions and resolutions, the resolutions were not being adhered to (see examples above).
    That was the reason for the sanctions. Look at Blix's comments and Powell's and you'll see there was no evidence prior to invasion.
  2. #502  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    I am not to fond of him yes... Love is blind.

    The problem with Cuba is personal to Bush Sr. Who do you think "W" goes to for advice? Bush Sr. is the only ex president to receive daily CIA briefing in history.

    Here is a Document Dated Nov 29, 1963. It talks about Cuba and mentions George Bush. You do know that Bin Laden was trainded by the CIA right? Saddam was placed in power by who?
    So let me make sure I understand your stance. A policy implemented by a Democrat - John Kennedy - is now the fault and sole issue of the currently elected President, 40 years later......that's any interesting logic tree you're selling.
  3. #503  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I don't think "w" goes to Sr. for advice.
    I would tend to agree - were that the case I think we'd see a more civil approach to policy direction.
  4. #504  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    So let me make sure I understand your stance. A policy implemented by a Democrat - John Kennedy - is now the fault and sole issue of the currently elected President, 40 years later......that's any interesting logic tree you're selling.
    W has seeked our other ex presidents for help regarding many issues in the past, which I think is a trait of a good leader, why would he not ask his dad? How did W make his millions to buy The texas Rangers... I think hed dad might have helped.

    JFK was in president for almost 3 years and inplemented the cuban policy, partly due to the Cuban missle Crisis. The policy was good then, but not now. Bush Sr. involvement with Cuba and Cuban policy back then, along with Dulles and Nixon, was more discreet. Dulles was fired by JFK for the failed (and unathorized?) Bay of Pigs incident.


    If Bush lifts the Enbargo, the GOP loses the state of Florida... Pure Politics at the cost of the Cuban People.
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  5. #505  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    If Bush lifts the Enbargo, the GOP loses the state of Florida... Pure Politics at the cost of the Cuban People.
    For the sake of argument, let's say I would agree with this statement. That would mean, in your logical world, it can't be Bush's issue as had Clinton or Bush #1 or Reagan or Carter or Ford or Nixon changed the policy and not kept it in place, Bush #2 would have nothing to deal with. That politically expediant knife you wield cuts both ways - though it's clear you can't see that.
  6. #506  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    For the sake of argument, let's say I would agree with this statement. That would mean, in your logical world, it can't be Bush's issue as had Clinton or Bush #1 or Reagan or Carter or Ford or Nixon changed the policy and not kept it in place, Bush #2 would have nothing to deal with. That politically expediant knife you wield cuts both ways - though it's clear you can't see that.

    I see it, just trying to explain present policy and how negativly affects people of other countries for our own good. I don't have the answers to everything, but I think people can learn from listening to my point of view, even if they do not beleive in it. I learn from others and try to keep an open mind. it's open minds and challenges to the government that freeds the slaves, ended segregation, allowed women to vote, etc...

    The Cuban policy has been in place for many years for many reasons. (educated guess).

    Bush Sr. was a cabinet member to Nixon, and was the only one to stay on with Ford after impeachment and later went on to Head the CIA. Later became VP and then Prez. I don't need to go into details about his views of Castro.

    All this time we were fighting a cold war and Cuba was not in that bad a shape relativly speaking with the help of the USSR. fighting communism I would say was a just fight. So Cuban policy was I would say good policy up until the Clinton Admin... maybe earlier. i would suspect Clinton didn't change policy again because of the votes, I really don't know.

    I suspect the embargo will be lifted after:

    1) Castro dies
    2) No Bush is in the White House

    Then will there be no personal or political reasons for the embargo... just a guess again since we are talking about the future.... i'm no Nostradamus.
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  7. #507  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    I suspect the embargo will be lifted after:

    1) Castro dies
    2) No Bush is in the White House

    Then will there be no personal or political reasons for the embargo... just a guess again since we are talking about the future.... i'm no Nostradamus.
    If the primary reason the embargo still exists is because there is a Bush in the White House, how do you reconcile that with an 8 year Clinton White House the embargo was still in place when Bush took office?

    Wouldn't you think others would be more open to your views if you would state things with less obvious political slant? Afterall, it's not really present policy you disagree with, it's the continuation of policy that began 40 years ago.

    The open-mindedness you seek in others seems to be missing in you?
  8. #508  
    So you agree that the Cuban Embargo is good american policy? Carter himself said the Embargo should be lifted and eased travel restrictions when he was in office.

    The United Nations has repeatedly voted to end the Cuban Embargo. nations voting against, US and Israel...

    Reagan and Bush were hard on Cuba, and Clinton did sign the Helms-Burton Act which prohibited trade with Cuba. He regularly lifted enforcement of the Act though. I really don't know why clinton did not lift or ease the ban, maybe he being a southerner listened to his people in Florida.
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  9. #509  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    So you agree that the Cuban Embargo is good american policy? Carter himself said the Embargo should be lifted and eased travel restrictions when he was in office.

    The United Nations has repeatedly voted to end the Cuban Embargo. nations voting against, US and Israel...

    Reagan and Bush were hard on Cuba, and Clinton did sign the Helms-Burton Act which prohibited trade with Cuba. He regularly lifted enforcement of the Act though. I really don't know why clinton did not lift or ease the ban, maybe he being a southerner listened to his people in Florida.
    Honestly, other than human rights violations, I really don't see a reason for the embargo continuing. My point actually wasn't associated with the policy, rather with your blaming the policy on President Bush when it's been in existence for 40 years.

    I seem to recall you mentioning something about Bush not lifting the ban for political gain yet Clinton can do it and you have no issue with it - interesing
  10. #510  
    Politics and politicians go hand in hand... And I never said I did not have an issue with Clinton's policy against Cuba.

    Kennedy himself was open to the idea of opening diplomatic channels to Cuba before his assasination and Senator Ed Kennedy gave a speech From Mexico city in 1975 saying that the embargo on Cuba should be lifted because it was ineffective and a mistake to isolate Cuba.
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  11. #511  
    Human rights violations??? More cubans suffer because of US policy that becuase of Castro. Castro goal was for equality. One of the only places inthe world where black and whites get along in harmony. I wish I could say this from firsthand experience, but I cant.

    When we were saving the world form Japan, Japanees americans, many of them women and children were stripped of their properties and placed in internment camps!!!
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  12. #512  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    Politics and politicians go hand in hand... And I never said I did not have an issue with Clinton's policy against Cuba.

    Kennedy himself was open to the idea of opening diplomatic channels to Cuba before his assasination and Senator Ed Kennedy gave a speech From Mexico city in 1975 saying that the embargo on Cuba should be lifted because it was ineffective and a mistake to isolate Cuba.
    I know we've been discussing this for a while but let me remind you of what started our conversation:

    nonobeez: "I don't do government work anymore... since I don't agree with their foreign policy. The problems with Iraq (and Cuba) are personal to BUSH."

    So of course you didn't SAY you had a problem with Clinton, since you're belief prior to me calling you on it was that it was purely a problem "personal to BUSH".

    Now come on, when you get caught, at least have the stones to fess up.
  13. #513  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    Human rights violations??? More cubans suffer because of US policy that becuase of Castro. Castro goal was for equality. One of the only places inthe world where black and whites get along in harmony. I wish I could say this from firsthand experience, but I cant.
    So why is it then that Cuban's take tremendous risk to GET TO AMERICA? If we cause so much trouble you'd think America would be the last place they would want to come.

    Not sure what you're smokin.....Castro goal was for equality.... Because equality describes all communist covernments
  14. #514  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    So why is it then that Cuban's take tremendous risk to GET TO AMERICA? If we cause so much trouble you'd think America would be the last place they would want to come.

    Not sure what you're smokin.....Castro goal was for equality.... Because equality describes all communist covernments

    Many people from all over the world risk their lives and life savings to come to America. America could take in cubans found at sea, but they dont.

    Cubans could have all they want at home if the embargo was lifted.

    What do you call a Cuban on American soil?
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  15. #515  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    Many people from all over the world risk their lives and life savings to come to America. America could take in cubans found at sea, but they dont.

    Cubans could have all they want at home if the embargo was lifted.

    What do you call a Cuban on American soil?
    Depends on if they are here legally or not - if they are here illegally I'd call them illegal aliens. If here legally, what ever they choose to be called

    Now we could continue this merry-go-round but it's clear to me you have no ability to admit when you are wrong, rather you just deflect the conversation.

    Let me leave the discussion with you with one piece of advice. You get more bees with honey than vinegar - if you expect to convince others of your stance, do so in good faith not in a manner that inherently turns them away.
  16. #516  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez

    What do you call a Cuban on American soil?
    An America..

    There is no such thing an an illegal Cuban immigrant. Once they step on US soil they are set. Ever notice most of the Cuban Americans in Miami are white... they fled after Castro stripped their wealth and distributed it among blacks and whites. The new cubans are mixed.

    Pre-Castro Cuba was full of Racism with segregated beaches and schools and hotels. The present economic problems are due to US policy.
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  17. #517  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    That was the reason for the sanctions. Look at Blix's comments and Powell's and you'll see there was no evidence prior to invasion.
    What about the 34 questions Blixt had that Iraq would not answer, including accountability of WMD materials we knew he had and had not accounting of...and still don't today. What about the Intel agencies all over the world saying they think he has them or may be trying to get them again. Monday Night Hindsight Quarterbacking can be useful tool to learn the reality of history or abused to scew history. The key to look at what we knew AT THE TIME the decisions were made, not as if they made the decisions with what we know now.
  18. #518  
    O please Bush wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the ***! After all, he hardly knew Kenny boy, now hit seems he knew Jack Abrahamoff a lot more and better than he says...another lie. Every time he opens jis mouth another lie falls out, Take care, jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  19. #519  
    It appears you ignored the facts.

    Not a strong argument when talking about politicians, but well written in Ad-Lib fashion. Let me try it.....

    O please Ried wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the ***! After all, he hardly knew Kenny boy, now hit seems he knew Jack Abrahamoff a lot more and better than he says...another lie. Every time he opens jis mouth another lie falls out, Take care, hobbes
  20. #520  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    That was the reason for the sanctions. Look at Blix's comments and Powell's and you'll see there was no evidence prior to invasion.
    Here it is again. Saddam welcomed us into his country with open arms willing to expose any corner at the whim of inspectors. Bush lied but everyone else saying the same thing must have been due to their naive unwavering belief in every word he said, because they said the same thing....of that doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    ....man here it comes again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and.....

    With this point always coming up on a regular basis with several different approaches, I have replied to it in extreme detail several times over. Instead of requoting everything, Here are some links for you to review and respond in the appropiate Iraq threads where this has been hammered out over and over and over and over and over again...:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=289 -- WMDs

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...5&postcount=49 -- Blixt reports

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=290 -- Timeline of US policy on Iraq

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=202 -- World Intelligence of WMDs

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=206 -- World Intelligence of WMDs

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...6&postcount=47 -- Iraq accountability for WMDs lack of full disclosure of all their WMD activities

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=215 -- World Intelligence of WMDs

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=306 -- Iraq and Terrorists & WMDs
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=292 -- Iraq and Terrorists & WMDs
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=294 -- Iraq and Terrorists & WMDs
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=296 -- Iraq and Terrorists & WMDs
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...&postcount=307 -- Iraq and Terrorists & WMDs

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...6&postcount=50 -- Should have gone after Iran instead of Iraq

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