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  1. #401  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    That may be true but we shouldn't give up the idea of having free speach or political discourse simply because someone else might be listening. I do think we can do a better job of voicing our opinions so that they are more constructive. If we allow the fact that other countries and organizations are listening to us limit our voicing of concerns, it leads us down the road to a 'police' state which I don't think a majority of us really want.
    I agree with you. I'm not saying people shouldn't discuss and criticise. My point (and I'm clearly doing a bad job communicating it) is that people should act like grown ups and realize that calling the president a liar (or worse) during a time of war is not wise. Tone down the outrageous rhetoric is all I'm suggesting. This country used to rally around the flag until the threat was gone.

    There will be plenty of time to make fun of how stupid Bush is after Osama is dead.
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  2. #402  
    Ummmm, why are we still debating whether or not AQ had ties to Iraq? The ties were weak at best. And didn't the 911 Commission conclude that there was no tie. Did Rumsfeld also say there seems to be no tie? So why are we debating this part of the argument? Some of you are saying that AQ trained in Iraq, so they must be sactioned by the Iraqi gov. But didn't they also train in Florida?
  3. NRG
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    #403  
    Quote Originally Posted by lyndon_h
    But didn't they also train in Florida?
    And Arizona.
  4. #404  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    And Florida.
    And Minnesota.

    And Alabama, too (IIRC).
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  5. NRG
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    #405  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    And Minnesota.

    And Alabama, too (IIRC).
    Forgot Minnie, but Bama? Who was there?
  6. #406  
    I recalled seeing or hearing this from ABC:

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/is...islamic54.html

    I don't know what (if anything) came out of it.
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  7. NRG
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    #407  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    I recalled seeing or hearing this from ABC:

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/is...islamic54.html

    I don't know what (if anything) came out of it.
    Huh, a training camp in Bama. News to me, learn something new everyday.
  8. #408  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    da, hate to tell you but, Bush has already told us what Victory means.

    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
    -Governor George W Bush (R-TX)
    I personally think it's useless and trivial to hang on the words of ANY politician. They are all full of sh*t. Rely on the politician's actions and votes (past and present).... that's who they truly are. We can all quote others and see the hypocrisy but it's just useless IMO.
  9. #409  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    da, hate to tell you but, Bush has already told us what Victory means.

    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
    -Governor George W Bush (R-TX)
    Not than I'm denying he said it... but do you have a source for the quote? I prefer to read quotes in context...

    I did a search and only found lefty blogs with this quote, also without citing the source.
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  10. NRG
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    #410  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Not than I'm denying he said it... but do you have a source for the quote? I prefer to read quotes in context...

    I did a search and only found lefty blogs with this quote, also without citing the source.
    Sure, here you go, with a few other nuggets thrown in.

    Source: Houston Chronicle

    Bush toughens his stance on NATO bombing

    By R.G. RATCLIFFE, Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau
    Staff

    AUSTIN - Gov. George W. Bush, undergoing his harshest national criticism yet for the vagueness of his policy on the Balkan crisis, Thursday sharpened his position to say that NATO's use of military force should restore Kosovo to its native ethnic Albanian population.

    "I would define the mission as to restoring Kosovo so the Kosovoians can move back in and at the same time teach Mr. (Slobodan) Milosevic that NATO and its allies and the United States will not tolerate genocide," said Bush, a leading contender for the Republican presidential nomination.

    -snip-

    Bush has been widely criticized for being slow to adopt a position on Kosovo and then for making vague statements on the subject.

    -snip-

    "Not at all. I took a very measured approach. I took my time in making what I thought was a very important statement," Bush said. "I'm going to get criticized. I understand that. But I'm going to speak on my timetable and nobody else's."

    -snip-

    Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for not doing enough to enunciate a goal for the Kosovo military action and indicated the bombing campaign might not be a tough enough response. "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is," Bush said.

    -snip
    And some more of his statements.

    Source: Houston Chronicle

    Bush's statements on Kosovo

    March 25 (first day of bombing): Bush did not comment, but spokeswoman Linda Edwards said: "He believes that is a decision for the commander in chief who has the military and intelligence information. Governor Bush believes if we are going to commit American troops we must be sure there is a clear mission and an achievable goal and an exit strategy."
    Last edited by NRG; 12/04/2005 at 04:07 PM.
  11. #411  
    OK - thanks for the source. So the big deal is what, exactly? Kosovo and Iraq are not the same. At any rate we are still there. Of course Bush is now in charge, and it would be fair to ask him why that is so.
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  12. NRG
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    #412  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    OK - thanks for the source. So the big deal is what, exactly? Kosovo and Iraq are not the same. At any rate we are still there. Of course Bush is now in charge, and it would be fair to ask him why that is so.
    What are our goals, exactly? What clear definable goals should we strive for, to reach the endgame, of getting out of there? How bout if he lays that out for us.
  13. #413  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    What are our goals, exactly? What clear definable goals should we strive for, to reach the endgame, of getting out of there? How bout if he lays that out for us.
    Are you talking about Iraq or Kosovo?
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  14. NRG
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    #414  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Are you talking about Iraq or Kosovo?
    Any war.
  15. #415  
    Bush has for Iraq. He has not for the Balkans.
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  16. #416  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    There will be plenty of time to make fun of how stupid Bush is...
    So you admit it?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  17. #417  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Don't throw this over the shoulder as a conspiracy theory. Not all the facts are in yet for the Oil for Food scandal. But it is a fact that first of all it happened. High ranking...decision influentual personnell...in France & Germany were profitting from keep war away from Iraq. They did actively and agressively campaign to sway votes away from the US.

    And now we Americans are the ones that are Profiting.... Horray!!!! How long shall I keep my Exxon and Haliburton Stock?
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  18. #418  
    And now we Americans are the ones that are Profiting.... Horray!!!! How long shall I keep my Exxon and Haliburton Stock?
    *sigh*

    Profiting? What exactly does Exxon have to do with Iraq? Oil prices have gone up - thus have oil company profits as well (they're almost making as high margins now as Starbucks). That's not rocket science.

    Haliburton is one of the best mining logistics and consulting companies in the world. They are heavily involved in the recontruction of one of the largest oil producers in the world (and their employees are risking their lives to do it).

    Neither one is probably a real good investment right now, though.

    So how else are we profiting? High gasoline prices? No can't be that. How about our military deaths? No, not that either.

    I've heard lots of bad or wrong-headed arguments against the war, but I find it ridiculous (and more than a little repugnant) that anyone believes America is financially profiting from it.
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  19. #419  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    *sigh*

    Profiting? What exactly does Exxon have to do with Iraq? Oil prices have gone up - thus have oil company profits as well (they're almost making as high margins now as Starbucks). That's not rocket science.

    Haliburton is one of the best mining logistics and consulting companies in the world. They are heavily involved in the recontruction of one of the largest oil producers in the world (and their employees are risking their lives to do it).

    Neither one is probably a real good investment right now, though.

    So how else are we profiting? High gasoline prices? No can't be that. How about our military deaths? No, not that either.

    I've heard lots of bad or wrong-headed arguments against the war, but I find it ridiculous (and more than a little repugnant) that anyone believes America is financially profiting from it.
    Its so ignorant when they throw out that "its all about the oil" comment isn't it?!?!
  20. #420  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    *sigh*

    Profiting? What exactly does Exxon have to do with Iraq? Oil prices have gone up - thus have oil company profits as well (they're almost making as high margins now as Starbucks). That's not rocket science.
    War is a big moneymaker... Why did we go to vietnam? So how was Germany and France profiting again? Were they profiting as a country or just a select few?

    When I say Americans are Profiting, I didn't mean to include the residents of LA or New Orleans, I meant the Rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Haliburton is one of the best mining logistics and consulting companies in the world. They are heavily involved in the recontruction of one of the largest oil producers in the world (and their employees are risking their lives to do it).
    O yeah, I forgot about them... those poor souls risking their lives for the benefit of the Iraqi people and the world... Although I have a sneaky suspicion that maybe up to 10% of them might be there because of the huge paycheck$$$$

    I hear Haliburton is really good a making dry runs... that can't be helping American taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Neither one is probably a real good investment right now, though.
    From what standpoint, P/E ratio, dividens payout, future growth? I don't see Bush Sr. dumping his stock soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    So how else are we profiting? High gasoline prices? No can't be that. How about our military deaths? No, not that either.
    Prices are set by supply and demand... I myself think that fuel taxes should be raised so that some of the fuel profits can be put to better use. The end result would be the same price for gas

    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    I've heard lots of bad or wrong-headed arguments against the war, but I find it ridiculous (and more than a little repugnant) that anyone believes America is financially profiting from it.
    You really think we are not in Iraq for money? Ignorance is bliss.


    P.S. Where is Bin Laden? what is his next move?
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