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  1. #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Star Wars opens today...just to further move things along....
    I was just gonna post that! I wanted to get further off topic in the off topic thread by asking if anyone saw it at midnight.

    Anyone?

    I have tickets for Saturday.

    We could start another thread about this thing how they're comparing this movie to the Bush administration and how Lucas hates Bush.
    I'm back!
  2. #162  
    I was working at midnight...

    I'll wait until after all the loons dressed as Wookies go see it.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I'll wait until after all the loons dressed as Wookies go see it.
    First of all, "loons" is offensive and I have pushed the red triangle.

    Second, there's nothing wrong with dressing up like Wookiees!



    I actually find it funny to go when everyone's all dressed up, those people are hardcore.
    I'm back!
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    First of all, "loons" is offensive and I have pushed the red triangle.

    Second, there's nothing wrong with dressing up like Wookiees!



    I actually find it funny to go when everyone's all dressed up, those people are hardcore.
    I dunno...after spending $9 to get in, another $20 on a small soda and two handfuls of popcorn, the last thing I need is dudes light sabre in front of me turning on every time Natalie Portman appears.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  5. #165  
    Are there any diehards here that went to the Star Wars special premerie last week that cost $500?

    (Did the $500 include popcorn and a drink?)
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I dunno...after spending $9 to get in, another $20 on a small soda and two handfuls of popcorn, the last thing I need is dudes light sabre in front of me turning on every time Natalie Portman appears.
    Ummm...that's not his lightsaber.
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  7. #167  
    I remember when the former Pee-Wee Herman got caught with his lightsaber out.

    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  8. #168  
    Paging Mr. Herman...Mr. P.W. Herman...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Paging Mr. Herman...Mr. P.W. Herman...
    That was such a funny, funny movie. Highly underrated.
    I'm back!
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Should it matter if the person is a US citizen? What if they are a naturalized citizen, versus someone who was born here? Does it matter to you?
    It doesnt matter to me. That was the point of me posting that comment. My argument is if we take the high moral ground, then we never have to have that questioned (i.e. equal treatment for all. By classifying them enemy combatants, we dont have to treat them the same.)

    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    I can tell you this, it doesn't matter to me. Actually, to me, it's worse, because McVeigh was an American (he's no longer an American as far as I'm concerned, since he committed the biggest crime against your country you can commit, which is treason). He's the same person as bin Laden as far as I'm concerned.
    I understand this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    And to answer your question, yes, I would condone WHATEVER needed to be done to get that information from him to prevent the Oklahoma City bombing. WHATEVER being based upon how sure you are that he's hiding something and can be broken.
    I think that this level of extremism is exactly what they (meaning the Islamic Extremists butchering innocents) are using against us. Plus, how would you know if someone can be broken?


    I totally agree with this...
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    But don't turn this into something it's not. This isn't an anti-Arab rant where I condone killing innocent Iraqi children to get a clue where WMD's would be, but yet allow McVeigh to say he doesn't know anything and just rot in a cell.
    ...however, you did mention children...would you do WHATEVER even if the person is a minor assuming they werent innocent?

    My point with all these questions is that its not so black and white to me when or if we should use torture. There are so many variables that cant be accounted for. There are so many subjective decisions that someone would have to make that it sets us up to fail more than succeed.
  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    That's the whole point, isn't it? To what extent did those interrogators who beat prisoners to death with flash-lights, or made them suffocate with a bag over their head follow orders? I think those were probably incidents on the slippery slope of not so "soft" torture, condoned by the government, and the result of lack of appropriate control over the people in charge of the prisoners.
    Good point. (And just an aside, it pisses me off when we put these guys/gals in difficult moral positions (i.e. do this act or face charges for insubordination) and then 'hang them out to dry' when it goes bad and it hits the fan. ) BTW-I am still not sure with what happened at Abu Ghraib. I just know it gets difficult to follow orders when you mix military officials and civilian cia operatives together.
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Ummm...that's not his lightsaber.
    maybe it was his bluetooth dongle
  13. #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    It doesnt matter to me. That was the point of me posting that comment. My argument is if we take the high moral ground, then we never have to have that questioned (i.e. equal treatment for all. By classifying them enemy combatants, we dont have to treat them the same.)
    Let's not forget the "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh. He was an American and an enemy combatant. I don't believe a distinction was made between the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Plus, how would you know if someone can be broken?
    Everyone can be broken. People just react to different "pressure points". Some may be physical, some may be psychological/emotional.

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    ...however, you did mention children...would you do WHATEVER even if the person is a minor assuming they werent innocent?
    Is a child's life worth 300 lives? Or 3000 lives? This goes back to the old chain email about if your child had the antibody to a global pandemic, but to harvest this antibody it would sacrifice your child's life, would you do it? And would you be angry if the world pledged to spend 1 hour a week in reflection about the sacrifice your child gave to save all of them, and then reneged on that promise? (This was the argument as to why you should spend an hour Sunday mornings in church, because this is the sacrifice Jesus did for all Christians for eternity.)
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  14. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    (This was the argument as to why you should spend an hour Sunday mornings in church, because this is the sacrifice Jesus did for all Christians for eternity.)
    Sadly, Jesus was certainly not the first, nor the last to sacrifice his life and to be tortured to death for his convictions (as we can see from the discussion here). Some people make it sound unique, while unfortunately it happens every day.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Everyone can be broken. People just react to different "pressure points". Some may be physical, some may be psychological/emotional.
    I don't dare asking where you have gathered this information. I hope it is theoretical knowledge, not experience from years of practice...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  16. #176  
    At what point did you hear, or see any prisoners beat to death or suffocated ?

    Did we televise their beheadings ?

    Our soldiers stood trial for things no worse than college kids do at hazing, not comparisons to what they do to our soldiers.
  17. #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    At what point did you hear, or see any prisoners beat to death or suffocated ?

    Did we televise their beheadings ?

    Our soldiers stood trial for things no worse than college kids do at hazing, not comparisons to what they do to our soldiers.
    I did not see or hear prisoners beaten to death or suffocated, that is from written Pentagon information relating to trials.

    I am aware of the fact that those incidents were not broadcasted, unlike the beheadings. But as mentioned earlier, a quick cut through the throat is probably not worse than being beaten to death or suffocated, with or without camera running.

    Maybe one has to add that pictures of tortured Iraqi prisoners were in fact broadcasted, not intentionally, but there were lots of pictures in the media anyway, taken by the guards as a sort of trophy, and to make fun of the prisoners. There are also pictures of killed prisoners and humiliated bodies, you can find them on the internet easily.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  18. #178  
    I have a question regarding the "high moral ground":

    How can you remain here when the enemy you ar fighting will do anything just to kill a person, any person, with beliefs that are not in line with theirs?

    Does there not come a point where the high moral ground is no longer an option?
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Our soldiers stood trial for things no worse than college kids do at hazing, not comparisons to what they do to our soldiers.
    I am thankful and happy to finally see a judge to throughout a case as in the case for one of these soldiers.
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Sadly, Jesus was certainly not the first, nor the last to sacrifice his life and to be tortured to death for his convictions (as we can see from the discussion here). Some people make it sound unique, while unfortunately it happens every day.
    <side comment>True, but if you are a "God fearing man", and believe God is The Creator and that the only path to Heaven is though Jesus, and realize that Jesus, who is the Son of God, gave his life for your sins, then you'll see it for the ultimate sacrifice that it is. The message that God would be willing to sacrifice his only flesh and blood so that you wouldn't have to burn in Hell is pretty powerful. And I would think unique too. If you believe that. And before we (and I don't mean you in particular, clulup, I mean we as in anybody in here) get into a debate about religion, I didn't bring any of this up to start a "my religion is superior to yours" or "you're going to Hell" thread. I have no interest in that. This was just a side comment to a side comment earlier about whether or not it's OK to sacrifice an innocent child's life to save many others, and how it reminded me of a chain email that circulates from time to time.</side comment>

    Back on topic.
    I'm back!
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