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  1. #321  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    I couldn't agree more, however between where we are today and where we need to be, there is a significant amount of time that will be needed.
    Well we recently passed the spending bill for the supplemental so we have 10's of billions of dollars going into the war. Use some of that money (BTW-the FBI has been hiring and I assume the CIA as well.) to bolster our intel (I think they are doing this as well).

    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    And, with our political climate and pander to the polls mentality, how do we ensure such a system will not only be set-up but maintained in the long-term?
    I dont think we can ensure it (that being said, we cant let it paralyze us to act either). However, its not just the executive branch's job to support our intel needs. Congress has the spending power, WE as citizens, need to make it a priorty with our senators and representatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    What do we do in the mean time since we are now required to be reactionary?
    Take steps in the right direction NOW. We cant ignore/take our time implementing the suggestions from the 9/11 commission. (Just an aside, I think we are taking steps in the right direction, we know we are thwarting terrorist attacks on the US, the problem is that this info isnt released publicy so we dont know how good of a job we are doing right now.)
  2. #322  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    The problem is that is that we never will really know, prior to the decision to torture, how many lives will be saved by the intel you gather.
    So does that argue that you try or choose not to? The "what ifs" get us every time.
  3. #323  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Fair enough, but how would you proceed?
    I would do everything I could to reduce the recruitment incentives for terrorists in the first place. That is the best way to weaken the terrorist network - to stop the source. This is an area which is not well addressed by our current policies.
  4. #324  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    (Just an aside, I think we are taking steps in the right direction, we know we are thwarting terrorist attacks on the US, the problem is that this info isnt released publicy so we dont know how good of a job we are doing right now.)
    and thus we get to what I feel is the crux of the issue - I too believe we are taking appropriate steps. Where we get into troble is it's a catch 22 - if you don't communicate the steps then you're doing nothing or not enough, if you do communicate the steps then you tip your hand......classic no win situation.
  5. #325  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Why is it that a report of Koran pages facing a toilet inflames the Muslim world to anger of such degree causing numerous deaths, yet the burnt American flag on the end of a stick is just fine with the Arab populace?
    Why is it that liberal American activists protest so loudly over this issue even as Newsweek itself retracts and apologizes yet feel so righteously comfortable desecrating the American flag causing personal anguish to veterans and their survivors?
    At the risk of being flamed....
    It is my opinion that their (Muslims) mentality is the result of the political oppression that they've experienced for the past several thousand years. Thanks to our freedoms (mainly Hollywood and the media) we've adapted a more open mentality (desensitized) and can deal with it better.
  6. #326  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Who is?
    Ditto
  7. #327  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    True on both accounts - but isn't it better to further debate by seeing the negative and the positive. Without a reasonably balanced view, I believe a person runs the risk of having all their posts immediately discounted.
    Good point. I do think its 'better' to hear both sides, but Clulup doesnt have to give the positive points to validate his negative points.

    Put it a different way, Just because Clulup might put out only negative points (Im not saying he does) it doesnt lead to the conclusion that his points should be discounted on that alone. He may run the risk of having them be discounted by others but if someone discounts his posts simply because of the 'slant' then they are losing the opportunity to learn and be challenged.

    When we challenge our 'beliefs', usually two things happen. 1. We change our minds or 2. Our beliefs become stronger.

    Either way, its a win/win situation IMHO. I think thats a good thing People are hesitant to challenge their beliefs because its uncomfortable.
  8. #328  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    My P is fine, thanx
    You got that burning thing taken care of?

    Wow this conversation has deteriorated......
    I'm back!
  9. #329  
    I believe the children are our future...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #330  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    You got that burning thing taken care of?

    Wow this conversation has deteriorated......
    Yep, I just soaked it in cider...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  11. #331  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    I would do everything I could to reduce the recruitment incentives for terrorists in the first place. That is the best way to weaken the terrorist network - to stop the source.
    Over the long run, I'd have to agree. But what do we do on an immediate basis...(rhetorical )
  12. #332  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    So does that argue that you try or choose not to? The "what ifs" get us every time.
    I think we need to caution on the side of not torturing. If we torture and its based on we 'think', then its subjective and can be used against us.

    Are there times where a good argument could be made that we have NO OTHER OPTION? Probably (just watch the Fox show 24 ) I just think those incidences are so few and far between that its really not a situation that we need to deal with and would rather have a policy of NOT torturing.
  13. #333  
    Quote Originally Posted by ekuzco
    At the risk of being flamed....
    It is my opinion that their (Muslims) mentality is the result of the political oppression that they've experienced for the past several thousand years. Thanks to our freedoms (mainly Hollywood and the media) we've adapted a more open mentality (desensitized) and can deal with it better.
    Let my people go......
    I'm back!
  14. #334  
    teach them well and let them lead the way (shouldn't we be swaying in unison)
  15. #335  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I believe the children are our future...
    Teach them well and let them lead the way.....
    I'm back!
  16. #336  
    I'm waiting for mister nibbler
  17. #337  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    teach them well and let them lead the way (shouldn't we be swaying in unison)
    Damn you, treo2die4. You beat me to it.
    I'm back!
  18. #338  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Damn you, treo2die4. You beat me to it.
    quick and the dead baby
  19. #339  
    give them a sense of pride
  20. #340  
    LOL (and getting funny looks all around)

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