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  1. #241  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I have no idea....it's been nearly 15 years since i was last in Iraq. So, I really have no idea what they think. I do know that for the first time in many of their lifetimes, Saddam wasn't re-elected with 100% of the vote.

    I also don't think oil is the sole reason. The Saudi's have more. Why not go there? Or Kuwait...Hell, we could just send the LA County Sheriff Dept. to take over that tiny country.
    no I dont think it is the sole reason either. But I think it is a major factor. And this little dance that we are doing, oh we want to liberate you give you freedom, and we are not being honest about our other reasons too, oh yes by the way, we want your oil too, the longer we dance around this issue, the longer they will mistrust us.
  2.    #242  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I agree . Its not the sole reason, but a reason nonetheless (and realistically, I dont think anyone can deny that). [Ok, maybe clairegrrl]
    OK...now you've done it. I am going to have to echo the thoughts of zee daster and ask that you refrain from the personal attacks
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  3. #243  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    OK...now you've done it. I am going to have to echo the thoughts of zee daster and ask that you refrain from the personal attacks
    Your 3750+ posts are a little daunting but I can push the little triangle just as good as anyone else.
  4.    #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Your 3750+ posts are a little daunting but I can push the little triangle just as good as anyone else.
    You and Cell musta been in the same class. Now I'm confused.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  5. #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Your 3750+ posts are a little daunting but I can push the little triangle just as good as anyone else.
    3750??? Damn, i need to catch up!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  6. #246  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    You and Cell musta been in the same class. Now I'm confused.
    Same class?
  7. #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    3750??? Damn, i need to catch up!
    I think you are doing a fine job..(now I am definitely changing the peanut vote.)
  8.    #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    i need to catch up!
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  9. #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I think you are doing a fine job..(now I am definitely changing the peanut vote.)
    Speaking of Peanut Votes...

    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #250  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    How do you know this?
    I havent always been an insurance salesman.
  11.    #251  
    Hey Woofy...I thought you were a private detective
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  12. #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    and if it leaks out that you are torturing, its fuel to the fire for other extremists to conduct more campaigns and recruit members.
    This begs the question - if this type of activity is undertaken, it must be done in complete secrecy.

    Does that also mean the military needs to dial back the press coverage they allow since the press seems to fall back on the "it's our responsibility to report it" posture instead of seeing the need and both using stronger discretion in their reporting and eliminating the look under every rock mentality?
  13. #253  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Better not...not with that whole Rodney King thingie. Makes current "abuse" look like a Carnival cruise
    No no...that was LAPD, not LASO. But then again, it was LASO that emptied 140 rounds into a stopped SUV and somehow managed not to kill the suspect.

    Maybe we should send the LAPD.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Treo2die4 and Insertion: I dont think its that much 'spinning' to say that Pres. Bush has been on tv (not lately) but in Dec 04-Feb 05 telling America that we are 'doing the right thing' by fighting insurgents and allowing them to have free elections.

    I also predict that this summer he will be saying the same thing when people start grumbling about our troops not coming home and how the Iraqi security forces havent gotten up to speed to replace our troops. Just my .02
    I happen to agree that both of your sites above are necessary - so I don't see how discussing them is spin? What is the alternative - leave the country now and eliminate all support for the transformation of the political climate?
  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    This begs the question - if this type of activity is undertaken, it must be done in complete secrecy.
    IF we decide to torture, then it probably would be best not to ever let it come out publicly.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Does that also mean the military needs to dial back the press coverage they allow since the press seems to fall back on the "it's our responsibility to report it" posture instead of seeing the need and both using stronger discretion in their reporting and eliminating the look under every rock mentality?
    The government has been trying to do this under the guise of "National Security" for the last 50+ years (they don't always win in the courts though).

    If we torture...its probably best not to have the military do it. Its too hard to keep it a secret with the military. Probably better to have the super spooks in the CIA do it. (And lets not kid ourselves...the CIA already are torturing (or have in the past.)
  16. #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    I happen to agree that both of your sites above are necessary - so I don't see how discussing them is spin?

    What is the alternative - leave the country now and eliminate all support for the transformation of the political climate?
    Of course its necessary for Pres. Bush to spin the situation to us! Since 3/19/03 we have lost over 1500 American Lives , there's little question that the Iraq war and its bloody aftermath will cost $200 billion and many would argue that all we have done is remove Sadaam. We dont have an established government (because insurgents keep assasinating those who want to lead), we havent gotten Bin Laden, we still have 130,000? troops still over there (and no timeline on when they might possibly be coming home). [We dont even have a litmus test for when they 'should' come home.]

    I would say that Pres. Bush needs to be on tv much more to 'sell' us on how and why we are in Iraq. Remember, we were told that Sadaam had weapons of mass destruction and links to Al Queda. I am going out on a limb here but I think it qualifies as political 'spinning'.
  17. #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Hey Woofy...I thought you were a private detective
    As much fun as that would have been, PI's rarely get to torture anyone.
  18. #258  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    As much fun as that would have been, PI's rarely get to torture anyone.
    Insurance Salesman: "So you sign?"
    Client: "Well, I have to say the other offer... AAARGH! What are you doing?!?"
    Insurance Salesman: "So you sign now?"
    Client: "I - AAAAARrgh... OK, OK, give me the pen!"

    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  19. #259  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Get off you high horse already - I'm sure it's more than just me that thinks you constant rant about the US, espousal of opinion as fact, and holier-than- thou attitude are more than tired......
    So you suggest I am not allowed to have a critical opinion about some policies and actions of the Bush administration, or even voice them publicly? I guess if Bush decides to act in the international arena, you will have to deal with international opinions, too. After all, Iraq is much closer to us than to the US, in fact it borders Turkey, a European country.

    You also complain about me "espousing opinion as fact", but I don't see what you mean. In the post you quoted, I had written

    - That the US send prisoners to Guantanamo because basically no jurisdiction really applies there, neither US legislation nor that of another country.

    - That the US coined the new term "enemy combatant" in order to avoid the Geneva Convention, because that would not allow how the prisoners are treated.

    - That the Newsweek article may not be 100 % accurate, but that it is not difficult to imagine that this sort of thing has happened. Keep in mind that in the meanwhile the Red Cross has confirmed that similar incidents have happened in the past at Guantanamo.

    Which point is opinion and not fact? What do you think, why are the prisoners held in Guantanamo? Because of the pleasant climate? Because there was no space in other bases? It's not that there were any facilities in Guantanamo to house prisoners before they arrived, or were there?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  20. #260  
    A lot has gone on in here since I last appeared!

    Cell, as far as giving me the "benefit of the doubt", remember interrogation <> torture. I used the word "interrogation", you used the word "torture". Try not to get us confused again.
    I'm back!

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