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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Meyerweb,
    If this immigrated working class is SO "benificial" to the economy- Why is it that in Claifornia (which we all agree, has a HUGE immigration influx) that the average income is less than half of the required amount needed to qualify for the average price of a home?

    Is that the end result of a good economy?
    And since the issue is the economy, how does it square with the impact on social services - the citizens are paying through the nose for services rendered to illegal immigrants?
  2.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Yes, the good guyz
    Of course the "good guys",
    Just as if we, figuratively speaking, were to have a Mexican Revolution (for lack of a better example) I am quite certain that thier future generations would deem it a glorious day.

    Remember, History is written by the winners
  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    OK, let's talk change. Change is bad? Baby's poopy diapers need to be changed ---> baby feel better, no?
    Chick has a lovely home.... Chick looses job.....Chick looses home:

    Those are big changes- Not ALL change is good!
  4.    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Wait! Were you cheering for the South?
    Thats my point silly! We won so of course we deem it justified.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    OK, I admit: I enjoy arguing with you. There....I said it.....LOL
    But, sxtg, Mexican immigrants are not here to 'capture' the U.S. and make it Mexican. To the contrary: Immigrants are here because this is their home. Many immigrants (new and old) fight in Iraq as we speak. They are proud to be here and proud to be Americans.
    I would beg to differ. I live in Southern California, and can tell you a good deal of Mexican immigrants (specifically, ILLEGAL immigrants) could care less about this country. Sure they want our jobs, medical care, etc, but if war were to break out, I hardly think they'd take up arms to defend the US against Mexico.

    The pictue of that billboard i posted on the last page will give a hint into the thinking. Granted, billboards are designed to grab interest, and did it ever, but to some, that's the view they have. Los Angeles, California, Mexico.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  6.    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    OK, I admit: I enjoy arguing with you. There....I said it.....LOL
    Comming from such brilliant (confused, but brilliant nonetheless ) mind, I take that as a compliment.
  7.    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    I'd be competing for jobs regardless. And why would Mr. Jose take my home? Jose can build a home next to me. I'd invite Jose for BBQ on the 4th of July to celebrate OUR independence.
    Bad reference to change. I had no intention of linking it to the current debate. I was simply suggesting that change is not good simply becuase its change. Only good change is good.
  8.    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    I beg to differ. your differ.
    Illegal immigrants are not the story here, and most Americans would agree that there are laws in place to deal with them. My read on this whole thread is that issues such as diversity, cultures, languages and (legal) immigrants are the problem.
    Yes but Meyerweb ended his argument suggesting that illegal immigrants are the true heros that have built this great nation.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    I beg to differ. your differ.
    Illegal immigrants are not the story here, and most Americans would agree that there are laws in place to deal with them. My read on this whole thread is that issues such as diversity, cultures, languages and (legal) immigrants are the problem.
    Illegal immigrants are mentioned in the "article" that was originally posted, as well as this thread. It is a huge problem, that most of the country hasn't a clue on. Unless you live in a border state, I wouldn't expect anyone to know.

    We also have a problem with illegal immigrants coming here to give birth to their kids. Guess what, kid is instant citizen once born here. Can't deport mom and leave child here, so mom gets a free pass. Now we have a legal citizen.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10.    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Illegal immigrants are mentioned in the "article" that was originally posted, as well as this thread. It is a huge problem, that most of the country hasn't a clue on. Unless you live in a border state, I wouldn't expect anyone to know.

    We also have a problem with illegal immigrants coming here to give birth to their kids. Guess what, kid is instant citizen once born here. Can't deport mom and leave child here, so mom gets a free pass. Now we have a legal citizen.
    Precisely!
    Ignorance is Bliss!
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    I beg to differ. your differ.
    Illegal immigrants are not the story here, and most Americans would agree that there are laws in place to deal with them. My read on this whole thread is that issues such as diversity, cultures, languages and (legal) immigrants are the problem.
    And what would you say to the idea that diversity, cultures, languages, and legal immigrants are not the "problem" but rather can become the problem if left to fragment American society and eliminate a feeling of common affiliation? (i.e. identifying oneself as an American rather than Hispanic, Chinese, Polish, Russian, etc.)
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Illegal immigrants are mentioned in the "article" that was originally posted, as well as this thread. It is a huge problem, that most of the country hasn't a clue on. Unless you live in a border state, I wouldn't expect anyone to know.

    We also have a problem with illegal immigrants coming here to give birth to their kids. Guess what, kid is instant citizen once born here. Can't deport mom and leave child here, so mom gets a free pass. Now we have a legal citizen.
    When you're ready to pay $2.00 for a head of lettuce (or whatever the heck double today's price is. I let the animals have the green stuff then eat them) then you're ready to stem illegal migrant workers. The agriculture industry is more dependent on them then the RIAA was on CDs.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I think rich countries should do more to prevent poverty and make life in the poor countries better.
    Do the individuals not have responsibility to lift themselves up?

    To what extent would you say rich countries have a responsibility to make life in poor countries better?

    How would you administer such "help" to ensure it is actually used for that purpose instead of pilfered by those in power as has happened so many times before?

    How would you change the culture of the poor country so the help given was akin to teaching them to fish instead of simply allowing them to eat the fish?

    How would you propose it not lead to an entitlement mentality?

    I know, I know....probabaly another thread entirely....
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    When you're ready to pay $2.00 for a head of lettuce (or whatever the heck double today's price is. I let the animals have the green stuff then eat them) then you're ready to stem illegal migrant workers. The agriculture industry is more dependent on them then the RIAA was on CDs.
    My opinion on lettuce and other leafy foods is the same as yours. But I wonder, how much of an increase would it really make? I mean, are there busloads of illegals going to Idaho to pick potatos? Cranberries in the Northeast?

    Your arguement may be true, but I do wonder how factual it is.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Do the individuals not have responsibility to lift themselves up?

    To what extent would you say rich countries have a responsibility to make life in poor countries better?

    I know, I know....probabaly another thread entirely....
    I know, too...

    I have been working in East Africa long enough to know it is not easy. Still, there are ways of working into the right direction, e.g. by not ruining the prices for agricultural goods by heavily subsidizing agriculture in developed countries.

    For sure (illegal) immigration will not really alleviate the problem much.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  16.    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    are there busloads of illegals going to Idaho to pick potatos?
    Nope this is done largely by native American Indians.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Nope this is done largely by native American Indians.
    Speaking about (negative) effects of immigration...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Speaking about (negative) effects of immigration...
    shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
  19.    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Speaking about (negative) effects of immigration...
    Exactly!
    ...and I am sure they were not happy about it. However, rather it was negative or not depended on which side of the fence one found himself.
  20.    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    If Israel is any indication then a LARGE influx of immigrants can be a good thing and, certainly, workable. Israel has had to absorb in a matter of a very short time roughly One-Fourth of its own population (that would be nearly 75 million new immigrants coming to the U.S. in less than a 2-year period!).
    Perhaps the one issue that angers me most about the original manifesto is that the American Dream is closed for new people. New immigrants (I am talking about legal ones) are not supposed to experience the American Dream even though it was written precisely for them (history doesn't lie).
    I am still waiting for a precise definition of what a country is. What I wouldn't insert into a definition of a country is aloofness that cries: "We're better than you so buzz off!"
    If I'd be still speaking Danish at home would that be bad? If I'd be celebrating Danish holidays and cultural events at home or in the community would that be bad? If I'd be reading Danish-language newspapers, magazines or online periodicals would that offend the write? If I'd be proud of my heritage and call myself Danish-American would that be inappropriate? If I'd keep my Danish citizenship and have dual citizenship would that be so horrifying to you? And if at my school I'd emphasize diversity as something to celebrate and be proud of, since I'd be wearing it on my sleeves anyway, would that be harmful to the U.S.? And, each day, as I do everyday, I'd pay my taxes to uncle Sam, thank my parents for coming here (well, I don't it every day, but you know what I mean), and be proud of this country's (my country!) accomplishments: Would that be so bad? And if I'd tell you that I truly believe that MOST immigrants feel the way this (me) immigrant feels about the U.S.: Would that be so incredibly harming?
    Nope. All of those things would be fantastic, and not just because you're cute, but because you included pride in America. You imply a desire to make it better, you talk of respecting its past, you mention being thankful for what it offers... I could go on, but you get the piont.

    As Insertion mentioned; The immigrants we are talking about don't give a Sh** about "America". They are here for the resources and could really care less about making it home. Until you see it for yourself, you really cant understand.
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