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  1.    #1  
    Here's some of the News that makes the rest of the world wonder about the double standards of the US government. On one hand, they claim to fight terrorism, on the other hand, they allow people involved in killing innocent civilians (among them an Italian tourist) to walk freely under the warm Florida sun.

    How do you feel about that? Do the supporters of George and Jeb Bush really support that? Fighting terrorism, protecting the innocent from bombs and other forms of terrorist violence, putting known terrorists in jail or suspected terrorists to court - doesn't look like it, does it? Do you find the Pardon of Jeb and George Bush for Orlando Bosch, a convicted terroist (see link) acceptable?

    The latest event is about "Luis Posada Carriles, the fugitive militant, would-be assassin of Cuban leader Fidel Castro and prison escapee who is wanted by Venezuela for the 1976 shootdown of a Cuban airliner that killed 73 civilians. Late last month, a South Florida television station offered a startling exclusive: Posada, last seen in Honduras, had slipped into Miami. Then last Tuesday, Posada's newly retained attorney had the temerity to request asylum for him. ...

    [Carriles] has even boasted of orchestrating numerous attacks on both civilian and military targets (including the 1997 bombings of Cuban tourist facilities that killed an Italian vacationer and wounded 11 others). ...

    Bosch [another convicted terrorist and murderer] was allowed to leave Venezuela not long after then-U.S. ambassador Otto Reich voiced concerns about his safety in a series of cables to the State Department. He flew to Miami in December 1987 without a visa and was promptly arrested. Attorney General Richard Thornburgh described Bosch as an "unreformed terrorist," who should be deported. But Bosch had a powerful advocate in Jeb Bush, who at that time was managing the campaign of Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the first Cuban exile to win a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives. In an unusual presidential intercession on behalf of a convicted terrorist, President George H.W. Bush overruled the FBI and the Justice Department and in 1990 approved the release of Bosch, who won U.S. residency two years later."


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Apr16.html
    Last edited by clulup; 04/21/2005 at 06:03 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  2. #2  
    Politicians are hypocrits, plain and simple. "Honest Politician" may not yet be an oxymoron, but there are few of them left. We boycott and attempt to embargo Cuba because (supposedly) Castro is an undemocratic dictator who jails his opponents and doesn't allow any political freedom.

    OTOH, we cozy up to the Chinese, who are at least as undemocratic and brutal as Castro's ever been. And Egypt, which has a "president for life" who continues to arrest and jail his political opposition. Not to mention the dictatorships in Saudi Arabia and other mid-east oil producing countries.

    Why the difference? Well, China doesn't have a highly organized "refugee" population in Florida threatening to vote out any administration who even suggests there might be a better way to deal with Cuba. And Cuba doesn't have thousands of factories making toys, clothing and electronics for American companies. Nor a billion consumers who might, someday, buy American cars. Nor, of course, any oil wells.

    Listening to the Bush administration talking about introducing democracy around the world, while cozying up to the Chinese, the Saudis, and Putin in Russia makes me want to puke. As does listening to him champion the Iraqi invasion as a "war on terror" while at the same time ignoring states that really do sponsor international terrorism (Iran and Syria) and that really are building (or trying to) nuclear weapons (Iran and Korea).
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    Politicians are hypocrits, plain and simple. "Honest Politician" may not yet be an oxymoron, but there are few of them left.
    I don't see politicians that bad in general, but granting a convicted murderer and terrorist like Orlando Bosch not only asylum, but also US citizenship really goes too far in my view. Quite disgusiting from somebody who claims to fight terrorism whereever he sees it... Sooner or later Syria, Iran and the like will pick the story up and point with fingers to it - rightly so.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    ...In an unusual presidential intercession on behalf of a convicted terrorist, President George H.W. Bush overruled the FBI and the Justice Department and in 1990 approved the release of Bosch, who won U.S. residency two years later."
    Given the timing , it would appear that the pardon was granted by the first President Bush, not the current one.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Given the timing , it would appear that the pardon was granted by the first President Bush, not the current one.
    True, it was George H.W. Bush who pardoned Orlando Bosch in Jeb Bush's Florida. We will see what George W. Bush will do about the newly arrived Luis Posada Carriles, who is more or less the same sort of terrorist, and escaped with his cell-mate Orlando Bosch, imprisoned for the bombing of the Cuban civilian airliner. So far, Carriles walks freely in Florida.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I don't see politicians that bad in general, but granting a convicted murderer and terrorist like Orlando Bosch not only asylum, but also US citizenship really goes too far in my view. Quite disgusiting from somebody who claims to fight terrorism whereever he sees it... Sooner or later Syria, Iran and the like will pick the story up and point with fingers to it - rightly so.
    I see this as just one example among many of political hypocrisy. I listed a couple of others in my prior post. Need more:

    How about the Republicans in congress demanding the elimination of the fillibuster (because it's being threatened to be used to stop less than 5% of Bush's judicial nominies). Back when Clinton was president and the Dem's had a majority in the Senate, Republican's were more than happy to use the filibuster for the same purpose.

    Or Republican's championing themselves as supporters of State's Rights. Unless the state law at issue is something they disagree with (like removing a feeding tube in Fl., or assisted suicide in Or. The latest: A congressman from Virginia is going to introduce a bill to prevent high rise development on some land near where he lives, in spite of the fact that the state and local government legislatures and the zoning board have approved it. (Why is this a Federal issue, you ask? Because the land is currently owned by the DC area subway system, which gets Federal funding. So he's going to try to pass a law prohibiting the transit system from selling the land. So much for State's rights, I guess. At least when it hits near where you live.

    I could go on and on....

    Oh, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of examples of Democratic hypocrisy, too. The Republican's are just more visible, and easier targets, these days.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Is a terrorist a terrorist if he’s my friend? It is a dogmatic global political c**p we see and hear all the time, and the U.S. isn’t different. Israel, England, Spain, Holland and the list goes on, have had to “work” with terrorists to help them capture terrorists who, in their minds, were the terrorists. Soon enough and the terrorist is not a terrorist for he’s a 'friend.'
    I am not sure what you mean. "Terrorist" mostly means somebody who uses violent action against civilians, in the present case those who found (or presently seek) asylum in the US after bombing a tourist hotel or an aircraft in mid-air and killed civilians.

    Israel's Ariel Sharon (when he was younger) and his commando have killed Palestinian civilian women and children by blowing up their houses while they were still inside (as revenge/to prevent attacks from the Palestinian side), I guess that counts as terrorism. Great Britain and Spain have used dirty measures against IRA or ETA terrorists (like assasinating terrorists without trial etc.), but I am not aware of how they "worked" with terrorists or acted as terrorists. And Holland?

    I think the use of violence against civilians is ALWAYS wrong, regardless of what the goal or the motive is, and there is no excuse for using terrorism, nor for condoning it by granting asylum for somebody who killed civilians, even if he did it to fight Fidel Castro.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    True, it was George H.W. Bush who pardoned Orlando Bosch in Jeb Bush's Florida. We will see what George W. Bush will do about the newly arrived Luis Posada Carriles, who is more or less the same sort of terrorist, and escaped with his cell-mate Orlando Bosch, imprisoned for the bombing of the Cuban civilian airliner. So far, Carriles walks freely in Florida.
    That was a convenient oversight - nice try
  9. #9  
    Does anyone remember the names of the Puerto Rican terrorists that Clinton pardoned during his last few hours as president?
  10. #10  
    So when they do go after terrorist... You complain. When there is evidence they were more forgiving... You complain. Does anything go on in your own country you could spend your time worrying about?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    So when they do go after terrorist... You complain. When there is evidence they were more forgiving... You complain. Does anything go on in your own country you could spend your time worrying about?
    Could you site some examples?
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalenvy
    Could you site some examples?
    I can only "find" his posts back to feb. He was/is adamantly against our reaction to the 9/11 attacks
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    So when they do go after terrorist... You complain. When there is evidence they were more forgiving... You complain.
    Nobody complained when the US went after terrorists (Afghanistan), in fact the US were supported in that effort, even without UN mandate.

    In case you mean the other story when Bush & Co tried to persuade the world about the irrefutable evidence for the WMD in Iraq...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Nobody complained when the US went after terrorists (Afghanistan), in fact the US were supported in that effort, even without UN mandate.

    In case you mean the other story when Bush & Co tried to persuade the world about the irrefutable evidence for the WMD in Iraq...
    As I remember it.... He didn't really care what the rest of the world thought.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    I can only "find" his posts back to feb. He was/is adamantly against our reaction to the 9/11 attacks
    I am not, see above. But I never bought the WMD story, that's not the same thing.

    Besides, back to topic: do you support the asylum for the terrorists mentioned above? Do you think Bush father and the Bush brothers acted/act in an acceptable manner? Is it ok to you that e.g. Mr. Bosch was granted US citizenship despite his involvment in blowing up civilian airplanes and killing dozens?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I am not, see above. But I never bought the WMD story, that's not the same thing.

    Besides, back to topic: do you support the asylum for the terrorists mentioned above? Do you think Bush father and the Bush brothers acted/act in an acceptable manner? Is it ok to you that e.g. Mr. Bosch was granted US citizenship despite his involvment in blowing up civilian airplanes and killing dozens?
    No I don't support that. I think a crime is a crime and should be punished not matter who the offender is. In fact the I am disgusted by the realization that power corrups. However I also realize that I am not in any position to judge as I have no idea what the political ramifications are for the decisions people in power are forced to make every day.
  17. #17  
    It's just a little frustrating how much other countries complain about our political decisions when they arent faced with the same situations. For example... How open are your borders?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Nobody complained when the US went after terrorists (Afghanistan), in fact the US were supported in that effort, even without UN mandate.

    In case you mean the other story when Bush & Co tried to persuade the world about the irrefutable evidence for the WMD in Iraq...
    Nobody complained? Wow. History rewrites usually take at least a generation.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Nobody complained? Wow. History rewrites usually take at least a generation.
    That's true, which shows that histrory was not re-written here. Or who do you have in mind who complained about the US taking care of the Taliban in Afghanistan after 9/11 (apart from some lone voices in the West, or Syria, Iran, and the like)?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    It's just a little frustrating how much other countries complain about our political decisions when they arent faced with the same situations. For example... How open are your borders?
    I imagine our borders are at least as open as yours, lots of criminals e.g. from Eastern Europe trying to get in, or in fact succeeding. But I am quite sure we have never granted citizenship to a known murderer and terrorsist, no matter who he has been bombing and for what reasons. Ask Jeb and George Bush senior why they did, and whether the words "double standard" have any meaning in their oh so moral, pro-life world.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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