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  1. NRG
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    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    Perhaps I stand with the minority - I don't think Tom Delay has anything to worry about. Set aside anything else we may have problems with... there's just no evidence supporting the indictment (if there was, it would be much more than a conspiracy charge).

    Lets couple this with the fact that a DA in Texas has the best chance of getting the grand jury to indict if he's of the same policital stand (D, that is in this case). Grand Jurors are hand-picked there. Funny, though, the DA didn't get it the first go rounds. Go figure.

    Tom will be aquitted, and it will go back to business as usual.

    Pamela
    We will see. Most likely one of the lower guys rolled on him when they were charged. I would say the chances are very high one of the two other guys made a deal to a lesser charge for info against Delay. We will see how credible these allegations are. But, remember there is a strong witness in this case or the charges would not be brought.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    But, remember there is a strong witness in this case or the charges would not be brought.
    You kidding? You don't need a strong witness to get indicted. Especially in Texas (I covered government there for years). An indictment in Texas is not much different than a group of people sitting in a restaurant talking about whether or not you may or may not have done something.

    You need 9 out of 12 to say, "Yeah, it's possible. More possible than not" and that's not hard to do when the majority of the public assumes politicians more than likely "did" something than not.

    I wasn't there, I don't know who the witness was, but it's as simple as saying, "Well, we talked about it, yeah."

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  3. vw2002's Avatar
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    #123  
    "there's just no evidence supporting the indictment (if there was, it would be much more than a conspiracy charge)"

    - mediasi

    well said. I tend to agree in that tom delay will probably have nothing to worry about. if guilty that's one thing. but I this has the look of just another partisan attack. we will see.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    well said. I tend to agree in that tom delay will probably have nothing to worry about. if guilty that's one thing. but I this has the look of just another partisan attack. we will see.
    Wow! I hope that's not the case. I could give a rip about Tom Delay myself, but if this indictment is purely political, that would be an even greater abuse of power.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    I stand corrected. it IS indictment according to news reports. I had heard on the way home from work today on the radio that he wasn't listed on the list of those indicted yet. an inaccurate news source.
    in any case, if delay, is indeed found guilty, than he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    sorry to want to try clarify this stuff --

    He is being prosecuted now for an indictment which a Grand Jury has judged there to be a credible preponderance of evidence in support of the probability that he is guilty of an allegation presented to them by a prosecutor. (whew -- the worst run on sentence ever).

    If after a jury trial, the jury should find him guilty of the allegation/indictment, the Judge can punish him to the full extent that the law would allow.

    Because the BUG KILLER is accused of breaking a state law, the judge probably has wide latitude in sentencing (unlike Federal court.) This being Texas, he could get anywhere from having to adopt a highway, to being put on death row....

    (I hope you all appreciate the impressive legal skilz Ive polished from the many years I have assiduously spent watching both Ally McBeal and L.A. Law...)
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  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Wow! I hope that's not the case. I could give a rip about Tom Delay myself, but if this indictment is purely political, that would be an even greater abuse of power.

    the prosecutor pursuing the BUG KILLER has gone after far more democrats than republican public officials (Nightline -- 25 minutes ago)
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  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    He is being prosecuted now for an indictment which a Grand Jury has judged there to be a credible preponderance of evidence in support of the probability that he is guilty of an allegation presented to them by a prosecutor. (whew -- the worst run on sentence ever).
    Nope. While a preponderance is a superiority, the "more probable than not" only needs to be 50.00001%. And there's no "probability" necessary, just that they think it's worthy of pursuing.

    You need not commit a crime to be indicted. Jesus could be indicted by a grand jury in Texas. The rules they must follow are very loose. Not to mention the jury is appointed by the judge (not a "blind" jury pool).

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Because the BUG KILLER is accused of breaking a state law, the judge probably has wide latitude in sentencing (unlike Federal court.) This being Texas, he could get anywhere from having to adopt a highway, to being put on death row....
    Conspiracy carries much more public ridicule than sentencing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    (I hope you all appreciate the impressive legal skilz Ive polished from the many years I have assiduously spent watching both Ally McBeal and L.A. Law...)
    You watched the wrong shows.

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  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    the prosecutor pursuing the BUG KILLER has gone after far more democrats than republican public officials (Nightline -- 25 minutes ago)
    I'm on the Left Coast. Nightline is 2 1/2 away still. Thanks for ruining it for me, pal!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    the prosecutor pursuing the BUG KILLER has gone after far more democrats than republican public officials (Nightline -- 25 minutes ago)
    I don't think the DA is really making a political move - I seriously don't. I think he's just "hoping" that something's there - someone put a "spark" in his head.

    Pamela
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  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I'm on the Left Coast. Nightline is 2 1/2 away still. Thanks for ruining it for me, pal!
    Yer so cruel.
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  11. vw2002's Avatar
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    #131  
    "Wow! I hope that's not the case. I could give a rip about Tom Delay myself, but if this indictment is purely political, that would be an even greater abuse of power"

    - insertion

    certainly would be. its gonna be interesting.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    You kidding? You don't need a strong witness to get indicted. Especially in Texas (I covered government there for years). An indictment in Texas is not much different than a group of people sitting in a restaurant talking about whether or not you may or may not have done something.
    Those are the rules that apply to every Texan. So, it doesn't make sense to bash the system only when a favourite politician gets involved.
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  13. #133  
    You know the case is weak when a commie rag like the Washington Post says, "Nonetheless, at least on the evidence presented so far, the indictment of Mr. DeLay by a state prosecutor in Texas gives us pause."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092802091.html

    Just a few months ago Earle was at a Dem fund raiser, bragging about this case.

    This storm will last for a week or so, until Tom turns the hypocrisy hose back on them...just like he did with the travel "improprieties" charges. Pelosi shut up when her office was fingered in that scam.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    a commie rag like the Washington Post .
    lol comment like these crack me up and I know there is not point in reading the rest ...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    lol comment like these crack me up and I know there is not point in reading the rest ...
    Not that you would have anyway.
  16. NRG
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    #136  
    Update.

    Source: Dallas Morning News

    'Stacks of papers' support indictment, foreman says; U.S. Rep. says there's no case

    09:00 PM CDT on Friday, September 30, 2005

    By CHRISTY HOPPE / The Dallas Morning News

    AUSTIN Grand jurors were presented a load of evidence, including testimony and phone records, that led them to believe Rep. Tom DeLay should be tried on a conspiracy charge, the leader of the Travis County grand jury that indicted the congressman said Friday.

    "It was not one of those sugarcoated deals that we handed to Ronnie Earle," William M. Gibson said.

    He added: "Mr. Earle has stacks and stacks of papers evidence of telephone calls from Mr. DeLay and everybody."

    Mr. DeLay has said that Mr. Earle has no evidence to prove that he tried to subvert Texas election laws. The Sugar Land Republican's lawyers did not return calls seeking comments on Mr. Gibson's description of the grand jury proceedings.

    The indictment stems from the activities of Texans for a Republican Majority, a political action committee created by Mr. DeLay. The group, known as TRMPAC, is accused of trying to circumvent Texas laws that make it illegal to use corporate or union money in political campaigns.

    Labeling it a money laundering scheme, Mr. Earle says that TRMPAC took $190,000 in corporate donations and routed it along with the names of seven Statehouse candidates to the Republican National Committee in September 2002. The RNC then sent out $190,000 in contributions to those same seven candidates, who couldn't legally have accepted corporate money.

    At the heart of the conspiracy charge against Mr. DeLay is whether he knew about the transaction. Experts on Texas law say that knowledge alone might be all that is needed for a conviction under state law.

    Mr. DeLay, who stepped down as House majority leader when the indictment was issued Wednesday, and his lawyers say he knew nothing about the money exchange at the time it happened and that the indictment is a political vendetta against him.

    But in the first public acknowledgements of what evidence against Mr. DeLay might exist, Mr. Gibson, a 76-year-old former sheriff's deputy and state insurance investigator, said there were ample indications of the congressman's involvement.

    He said that Mr. DeLay provided the district attorney with a written statement that was given to the grand jury to consider but that Mr. DeLay declined to sign a sworn document or testify under oath.

    Mr. DeLay "just gave a statement saying he did nothing. And he didn't know how that money got back down here and all that stuff," Mr. Gibson said. "We believe different from other paperwork we got."

    He added, "I am very much convinced that he had" knowledge of the transaction.

    -snip-
  17. #137  
    No mention in this article about Earle's camera crew, or his promise to go after Delay at a Democrat fundraiser. No mention that Delay had been consulting with lawyers and accountants on this thing.

    Earle is going to get "Hammered".
  18. NRG
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    #138  
    1911 is this the same film crew that was with Delay a while back? Claim partisan politics all you want. But this no longer about image. It is about law. Delay can moan, scream, spit venom as much as he wants, but the simple fact remains he has to answer to a judge and jury now.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    1911 is this the same film crew that was with Delay a while back? Claim partisan politics all you want. But this no longer about image. It is about law. Delay can moan, scream, spit venom as much as he wants, but the simple fact remains he has to answer to a judge and jury now.
    The simple fact remains that this is a politically driven prosecution. This case, like Kay Bailey Hutchinson's, will be dismissed before it gets to trial.

    Oh, and what sort of grand jury foreman discusses a case before the media?
  20. iomatic's Avatar
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    #140  
    So.... Frist, DeLay, Rove, Bush, Cheney, et al, is not enough (yes they've lied, cheated, and stolen JUST AS MUCH, if not more, than Dems)?

    You stand by them? Until they are indicted, prosecuted, and put away by a non-partisan investigation, and you'll scream 'Left-Wing Conspiracy' the whole time? So Ken Starr was fair? Please.

    Take some medication for your political myopia. Pathetic.
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